DabosDynasty

For fricks sake.

Not a sky is falling Russia is taking over post, but ffs we look so weak in many areas. We just keep emboldening the same behavior we’re throwing hundreds of billions against. Same with Israel, we support Israel and simultaneously spend $320 million on a port for Gaza aid we know is held hostage by Hamas and not helping any suffering citizens. I won’t get on the domestic bs with Palestinian support

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So is WWIII beginning NOW?

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We may look back and see this as another front of it opening. Imo were already in what will be considered WWIII that began with Ukraine.

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Russia doesn't give two shits about the land itself, or at least not the entirety of it. Ukraine can be its own country, they just want it to be pro Russia. A worse but similar deal to what they have now, with a different master.

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This is all to secure incursion into Russia from that direction, ie for the land. Ukraine obviously won’t cooperate to be Belarus 2.0 therefore Putin invaded, to secure the land and what goes on on it.

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Do you honestly think Russia wants the headache of decades of local resistance in central and eastern Ukraine, with no real strategic benefit? All that does is put NATO right on their doorstep.

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Nothing new for them.

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I think Russia enjoys Ukraine being a buffer just as much as NATO does, they just want that buffer to be pro-Kremlin instead of pro-Washington. They don't need the land for any other reason than some Alexander the Great cosplay fantasy people project onto Putin, which is IMO a misread of who he is. He is a murderous thug who wants to bang gymnasts on his yacht, I don't think he is a murderous thug who wants to conquer the world, or even re-unite the old Soviet Union whether he says that publicly or not.

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He’s likened his own self to Peter the Great. He wants to restore the Russian empire, not the Soviet Union.

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I feel like nato was not created to hinge on our participation. Maybe I'm wrong. Just thought it was a group effort

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Whether that is the case or not does not changed the current state of affairs and the current state of affairs is where decision making is required, not back 70 years ago.

That said, I agree with what I believe is your general premise. The rest of NATO should be expected to follow Polands path. Frankly I think Germany is treating Poland as they historically have - the middle ground/buffer between they and Russia. Poland could be used to buy some time for Germany to get serious, but at that point it’s not enough time, potentially. Current state, IMO, Poland is the second most important member to NATO security. They’re serving as a roadblock and first line protection to the rest of Europe.

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That said, to keep giving at the level we have been or to increase it you MUST be convinced that Putin is a threat to NATO countries, and both myself and apparently our government doesn't see it that way. I think the "threat to Europe" argument is just a lazy cop out reason to send more aid from people who can't explain why we should be giving such large amounts to a country that isn't nearly as important to us as it is Russia.

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The main issue with this is how small European armed forces have become outside of a few countries. From a numbers perspective this is a deficit that could be exploited early. NATO security hinges on our commitment and abilities.

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Theyre pushing the same propaganda that told them two years ago that Russia was a mess and would fold quickly.

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1. They are a mess relative to a modern and well trained military, always have been. Also as they always have been, they’re more than willing to sacrifice more men and equipment than anyone else, which is why we’re still where we are with the war.

2. They folded quite quickly from Kiev and then again from Kherson, but I don’t recall anyone really saying they’d fold altogether very quickly because of #1.

Anyone else watching this mysterious chatter from Serbia? Seems to be relative to Kosovo, but that’s just things seen on Twitter after Vucic’s comment.

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Taking this particular incident out of the context of Russia or Ukraine or Muslim vs Christian or anything else.

If someone deliberately murdered my family. Like in a terrorist incident they shot down my daughters in a shopping mall or whatever. If given the opportunity I would personally torture them to death on live television. And wouldn't care what anyone did to me afterwards.

And I think there needs to be more of that. If more Muslims saw us chopping off their dicks, cutting their throats, and throwing them into a pit of rotting pig carcasses, then maybe they would think twice about taking the express elevator to heaven.

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Biggest fact of the entire thread. This is part of why a lot of the right align so much with Russia presently, not that it makes it right but this is part of why. Contrast this with our border and the domestic violence from one particular group of people and you see. They’re out of control with it, it’s not related to Ukraine, but it’s there.

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Anyone who thinks this ends in Ukraine is fooling themselves.

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This seems to objectively be becoming reality. We can talk about how much more advanced and skilled our military is, the strength of NATO, on and on. Doesn’t change that foolish decisions in war are made all through history and Russia is not unaligned, whether for mutual gain or lopsided to their partner’s favor, but they are there.

As we learned prior to WWII, it is better to nip this aggression in the bud than to appease hoping for peace, I’m afraid we’re going to learn it is better to completely and swiftly nip it in the bud when you decide to.