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re: OT: Happy MLK Day!
Posted on 1/21/14 at 11:20 am to PDXDawg
Posted on 1/21/14 at 11:20 am to PDXDawg
It just confounds me that every election cycle (especially post-2004 re-election of GWB), that folks on the left demonize any attempts to privatize *any* percentage of Social Security. "The Republicans are going to take away your Social Security! You're going to have to eat dog food!," ad nauseum. The Brownsville study and related research clearly show that virtually any given individual has a tendency to invest their money privately far better than an Imperial Federal Government agency. It's little more than Depression-era fearmongering, in my book.
Same thing will fire up again when the Fed decides to stop propping up the markets with printed money. 16K on the NYSE isn't really 16k when it's artificially inflated with stimulus funds.
Same thing will fire up again when the Fed decides to stop propping up the markets with printed money. 16K on the NYSE isn't really 16k when it's artificially inflated with stimulus funds.
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Posted on 1/21/14 at 11:23 am to FooManChoo
Lol, I'm a pretty liberal guy in some ways, conservative in a lot of ways too. I'm a fence sitter and that can really annoy people sometimes. I also own guns, mostly for hunting. Liberals, conservatives, the anarchists, everyone's crazy in one way or another. Lol
Posted on 1/21/14 at 11:26 am to VoxDawg
Vox, every election cycle both sides demonize the others ideas. It's all about divide an conquer using hot button issues rather than trying to find a consensus. Gotta stir up the bases and make sure we hate each other.
Posted on 1/21/14 at 11:31 am to PDXDawg
I've definitely mellowed out on politics in the past 10 years. Hell, for my 21st birthday, I drove down to Miami to the Southern Republican Leadership Conference and got my picture taken with Jeb Bush.
I'm still very Conservative, but I've been so disillusioned by politicians on both sides of the isle that I consider myself more of a fatalist rather than a Republican (need my own party, I guess): the country is doomed no matter what.
The citizenry of this country is ignorant, selfish, and has such a perverted moral compass that I don't see anything getting better over time; just more and more suffering coupled with more government involvement to "fix" the suffering (which won't happen). More dependency rather than independence. Less personal accountability. More emphasis on what feels right than what is right, and an inevitable decline into self-imposed slavery where freedom is traded for safety and comfort.
There are few politicians that I have respect for these days, and they are so outnumbered by the spineless scum that surrounds them that they are mostly ineffective.
I'm getting depressed now.
I'm still very Conservative, but I've been so disillusioned by politicians on both sides of the isle that I consider myself more of a fatalist rather than a Republican (need my own party, I guess): the country is doomed no matter what.
The citizenry of this country is ignorant, selfish, and has such a perverted moral compass that I don't see anything getting better over time; just more and more suffering coupled with more government involvement to "fix" the suffering (which won't happen). More dependency rather than independence. Less personal accountability. More emphasis on what feels right than what is right, and an inevitable decline into self-imposed slavery where freedom is traded for safety and comfort.
There are few politicians that I have respect for these days, and they are so outnumbered by the spineless scum that surrounds them that they are mostly ineffective.
I'm getting depressed now.
Posted on 1/21/14 at 11:50 am to FooManChoo
Foo, I hear ya. I'm not quite that fatalist, inthink there is hope. Our country is particularly divided right now but I do think we all basically want the same things. I would love to see a 3rd party, one that is more centrist and looking to get shite done. I'm not sure how we get there though.
Posted on 1/21/14 at 11:52 am to PDXDawg
quote:
I'm a pretty liberal guy in some ways, conservative in a lot of ways too. I'm a fence sitter
I bet you aren't really a "fence-sitter" at all.......
Let's do this. Please provide an example of how you consider yourself to be a "fence sitter". Thanks in advance.
Posted on 1/21/14 at 11:53 am to PDXDawg
I voted for Gary Johnson. Wish he had been let into more debates. Dude is a proven executive in both public office and the private sector.
Posted on 1/21/14 at 12:06 pm to PDXDawg
I doubt a 3rd party would help things, really.
The problem is with the people, IMO, not the politicians. Crooks keep getting elected because idiots keep voting for them.
There are other candidates that don't affiliate with the R and the D that don't get elected because there aren't enough people who want to vote for them.
For a 3rd party to be effective, you have to have about an equal number of Republicans and Democrats jump ship and join up with that party. If one party (Republicans) split and half goes to the 3rd party while the Democrats (mostly) remain unified, then the Democrats will always win and nothing changes. I'm talking about national elections, obviously.
The problem is with the people, IMO, not the politicians. Crooks keep getting elected because idiots keep voting for them.
There are other candidates that don't affiliate with the R and the D that don't get elected because there aren't enough people who want to vote for them.
For a 3rd party to be effective, you have to have about an equal number of Republicans and Democrats jump ship and join up with that party. If one party (Republicans) split and half goes to the 3rd party while the Democrats (mostly) remain unified, then the Democrats will always win and nothing changes. I'm talking about national elections, obviously.
Posted on 1/21/14 at 12:26 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
The problem is with the people, IMO, not the politicians. Crooks keep getting elected because idiots keep voting for them.
The people are just a symptom of the problem. The real problem is the system itself. It has been hijacked and recognizes no restraints. There is no way to reform it or change it from within. Sorry.
Tell me..... Are you really shocked that a corrupt system attracts crooks that want to get elected to run it?
It's so frustrating to read comments like yours and Jacketfan77s.........As if the solution is to wait every four years, so that you can debate and argue with a bunch of zombie medicated hypnotized morons and try to convince them to vote for some angel king that you think will go to DC and magically solve everything.
It ain't happening man. You are wasting your time with 3rd parties.
Posted on 1/21/14 at 12:49 pm to Jefferson Dawg
I am socially liberal but fiscally conservative. I believe in conservation of the environment, I'm active in local hunting and fishing organizations, I have voted for both republicans and democrats at local and national levels, I own guns, support many govt programs, believe in progressive tax rates, support lower corporate taxes but don't think they should be considered a "person", so to speak. I save money like crazy, don't like the levels of spending in our govt but do think it's necessary at many levels. I am a common ground guy. I don't believe there is a war on Christmas, I am pro choice and don't give a crap about gay marriage. I do think that welfare and Medicaid/Medicare/SS reform is important and I support that line of thinking. I don't think they need to be discontinued though. I am okay with some farm subsidies but I don't think we should be subsidizing unhealthy food at a different rate from healthy ones, and there is certainly pork there as well. I support the ACA but it needs tweaks there is no doubt. I'm fed up with Obama but not because I think he is a communist, Muslim, or a foreigner. Enough for you?
Posted on 1/21/14 at 12:50 pm to PDXDawg
Cool story bro
Posted on 1/21/14 at 12:57 pm to Jefferson Dawg
I'm supportive of anyone running for office who meets the generic qualifications, regardless of party affiliation, but I'm really not a fan of trying to get a 3rd party involved in national politics because I think it is a lost cause and will do more harm than good to try it under the current system.
As you said, it is a problem with the system we have. National 3rd party candidates just suck votes away from one side and give the other side a victory or a greater chance at victory (see Ross Perot for an example)
But I still hold that the real issue is with the people, not the politicians. A bad politician will not last long if the people they represent are informed and actually hold their representatives accountable by voting them out (or recalling them). I live in Colorado, so I've seen this first-hand recently, and it's good for the political process. Unfortunately it doesn't happen enough.
If the majority of the people in this country were informed and actually cared, I think better politicians would be in office. I think it would be helpful to put term limits on politicians and encourage recalls for those who violate their promises or who take full advantage of their office to benefit themselves at the expense of those they claim to represent.
As you said, it is a problem with the system we have. National 3rd party candidates just suck votes away from one side and give the other side a victory or a greater chance at victory (see Ross Perot for an example)
But I still hold that the real issue is with the people, not the politicians. A bad politician will not last long if the people they represent are informed and actually hold their representatives accountable by voting them out (or recalling them). I live in Colorado, so I've seen this first-hand recently, and it's good for the political process. Unfortunately it doesn't happen enough.
If the majority of the people in this country were informed and actually cared, I think better politicians would be in office. I think it would be helpful to put term limits on politicians and encourage recalls for those who violate their promises or who take full advantage of their office to benefit themselves at the expense of those they claim to represent.
This post was edited on 1/21/14 at 12:59 pm
Posted on 1/21/14 at 1:00 pm to deeprig9
quote:
Cool story bro
He asked
Posted on 1/21/14 at 1:05 pm to VoxDawg
RonBurgundy_WellThatEscalatedQuickly.gif
Posted on 1/21/14 at 1:10 pm to PDXDawg
quote:
I am socially liberal but fiscally conservative. I believe in conservation of the environment, I'm active in local hunting and fishing organizations, I have voted for both republicans and democrats at local and national levels, I own guns, support many govt programs, believe in progressive tax rates, support lower corporate taxes but don't think they should be considered a "person", so to speak. I save money like crazy, don't like the levels of spending in our govt but do think it's necessary at many levels. I am a common ground guy. I don't believe there is a war on Christmas, I am pro choice and don't give a crap about gay marriage. I do think that welfare and Medicaid/Medicare/SS reform is important and I support that line of thinking. I don't think they need to be discontinued though. I am okay with some farm subsidies but I don't think we should be subsidizing unhealthy food at a different rate from healthy ones, and there is certainly pork there as well. I support the ACA but it needs tweaks there is no doubt. I'm fed up with Obama but not because I think he is a communist, Muslim, or a foreigner. Enough for you?
So, in other words you are a "statist". You believe that it is the state's (the federal government's) role to intervene in each of the issues you describe above. That if one politician is not manipulating policy correctly enough for you......that the solution is to let another politician try his hand at steering the policy of the all-encompassing all-powerful all-mighty State.
Seems pretty fricking far from being a "fence sitter", imo.
Thanks for sharing.......
Posted on 1/21/14 at 1:12 pm to dhuck20
Jefferson, what do you propose then? Serious question. If voting is a waste of time, and the system will not reform on its own, are you just saying frick it all there's no hope? Or do you have something else in mind for exacting change?
Posted on 1/21/14 at 1:16 pm to Jefferson Dawg
quote:
So, in other words you are a "statist". You believe that it is the state's (the federal government's) role to intervene in each of the issues you describe above. That if one politician is not manipulating policy correctly enough for you......that the solution is to let another politician try his hand at steering the policy of the all-encompassing all-powerful all-mighty State.
Seems pretty fricking far from being a "fence sitter", imo.
stop acting like fricking anarchy and zero govt is the answer and that there is no common ground...i probably align myself fairly close to you on many issues but dude...no govt at all is not the answer...and calling someone a statist bacause they believe there is some good that can come from govt is ignorant...
Posted on 1/21/14 at 1:18 pm to Jefferson Dawg
quote:
So, in other words you are a "statist". You believe that it is the state's (the federal government's) role to intervene in each of the issues you describe above. That if one politician is not manipulating policy correctly enough for you......that the solution is to let another politician try his hand at steering the policy of the all-encompassing all-powerful all-mighty State. Seems pretty fricking far from being a "fence sitter", imo.
We are talking politics are we not? I believe that govt should exist and I'm discussing governmental matters. I don't want the govt involved in everything in my life. But I thought we were discussing the areas in which they are and how I view both sides of the issue. Fence sitter meaning I can relate to both political sides. Not fence sitter in the sense of believing a govt should even exist or not.
Posted on 1/21/14 at 1:20 pm to PDXDawg
I always understood a "fence sitter" to be a person who doesn't take a side or position on an issue.
Posted on 1/21/14 at 1:26 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
If the majority of the people in this country were informed and actually cared, I think better politicians would be in office.
This is a pie-in-the-sky fool's dream.............and it's why democracy will always fail.
THink of the insanity of what you are saying. Why the frick should I have to stake my future, my freedom, my private property on the whims of voters in a country of 300 million people?
What voice do you think you really have in a majority-rule system like this? What happened to the rule of law?????
Again.....It can not be reformed. People need to stop playing along in this politician voter scam. It's clear to me, that these crooks in DC no longer have the consent of an enormous amount of the governed. But................when you run around voting for the "lesser of two evils" or supporting some 3rd party candidate, you are endorsing it and legitimizing it in their eyes........thereby helping to perpetuate it. Even though you know it will do no good.
Time to withdraw your consent.
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