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re: Final Rivals Class of 2017 Rankings Discussion Thread
Posted on 1/16/17 at 5:09 pm to mmjones87
Posted on 1/16/17 at 5:09 pm to mmjones87
quote:
If getting suspended from a team your Dad is Head Coach of is a physical talent... Then yes.
When did he get suspended on the football team?
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But if you look at their tape side by side and feel that way
I've coached against both of them multiple times. The only thing that separates them is what's between the ears.
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Posted on 1/16/17 at 5:28 pm to Porter Osborne Jr
Either this proves being a coach doesn't mean you are a good judge of talent, or maybe you aren't a high school football coach as you claim.
This post was edited on 1/16/17 at 5:40 pm
Posted on 1/16/17 at 5:39 pm to djsdawg
Do you know how to have a discussion on here without being a dickhead? Anytime someone has a different opinion you act like a jackass and throw insults and just say the same thing until the thread hits 5 pages and the other person gives up.
Posted on 1/16/17 at 5:44 pm to Porter Osborne Jr
No insult intended, but You shared a flawed opinion few if any would agree with. Just compare their rankings.
Plus, Coaching a high school football game against mceachern and Houston multiple times each seems like a stretch. They aren't close to the same region, so It's natural to doubt your claim.
Plus, Coaching a high school football game against mceachern and Houston multiple times each seems like a stretch. They aren't close to the same region, so It's natural to doubt your claim.
Posted on 1/16/17 at 5:51 pm to djsdawg
Well, I've been in McEacherns region and competed against Houston during summer.
No insult intended? Dude, you said I can't judge talent or I'm a liar. Kind of hard not to see that as an insult.
Hockman was rated higher early because of his physical skills. He just does not have the leadership or decision making skills as Fromm. It's not like I'm saying the jv qb at South Cobb is as good as Lawrence is.
No insult intended? Dude, you said I can't judge talent or I'm a liar. Kind of hard not to see that as an insult.
Hockman was rated higher early because of his physical skills. He just does not have the leadership or decision making skills as Fromm. It's not like I'm saying the jv qb at South Cobb is as good as Lawrence is.
Posted on 1/16/17 at 6:49 pm to Porter Osborne Jr
Damn, FSU is about to get 2 five star rbs.
Posted on 1/16/17 at 7:00 pm to Porter Osborne Jr
Sometimes the truth is harsh, but that doesnt mean insult was intended. The ranking difference between Fromm and Hockman has far more to do with physical talent than you are seeing.
Posted on 1/16/17 at 7:51 pm to djsdawg
every single review of Fromm's game focuses on his leadership and mental grasp of the position. He doesn't have a huge arm and he isn't a dual threat guy. Why is it so hard for you to believe that Hickman is equally as physically gifted?
Posted on 1/16/17 at 8:02 pm to djsdawg
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Sometimes the truth is harsh, but that doesnt mean insult was intended.
Sometimes you're an arrogant prick. I mean that in a good christian kind of way.
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The ranking difference between Fromm and Hockman has far more to do with physical talent than you are seeing.
Or maybe it has to do with Bailey being a head case. Hockman has the better arm. The kid has offers from every school he wanted including Bama and FSU and yet you're acting like there is a huge difference in athletic ability between the two.
Posted on 1/16/17 at 8:09 pm to ATLdawg25
Every single review also focuses on his throwing abilities. Pro style Qbs dont get rated 5 stars unless they have great physical abilities. His leadership abilities are merely the cherry on top. Hockman would be rated much higher if he had those same physical talents. The vast difference in their rankings cant be explained by only leadership abilities.
This post was edited on 1/16/17 at 8:13 pm
Posted on 1/16/17 at 9:17 pm to djsdawg
Agree to disagree, I suppose. Have you seen Hockman more than Porter has?
Posted on 1/16/17 at 9:34 pm to ATLdawg25
The men doing the rankings on the recruiting websites have seen far more than Porter has. Those rankings have never placed most of the importance of rankings on "leadership" ability. That is some new idea you and Porter have come up with. Game film is the most important factor in recruit ranking, and then camps and all star games are ways to confirm what the tape shows.
Posted on 1/16/17 at 9:53 pm to djsdawg
quote:
The men doing the rankings on the recruiting websites have seen far more than Porter has
Maybe, I have seen at least 6 of his games for each of the last 3 seasons.
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Those rankings have never placed most of the importance of rankings on "leadership" ability.
No, I'm saying that's what makes him the better qb, his mental make up and his decision making ability with the ball. Guys want to play with Jake because he's a leader and a lovable guy. Hockman is neither of those. He had a bad attitude this year and played below his capabilities because of it and it dropped his rankings some. But in my opinion he's at least as physically gifted as Fromm and maybe even more.
This post was edited on 1/16/17 at 10:06 pm
Posted on 1/16/17 at 10:06 pm to Porter Osborne Jr
The recruiting site guys on every site obviously have a different opinion. Maybe you are right and they are wrong.
Posted on 1/16/17 at 10:15 pm to djsdawg
I'm only talking about their physical skill set and not their entire ability to play qb which is what they're ranking. Can you link me to where they list the players by physical tools only?
Posted on 1/16/17 at 10:26 pm to Porter Osborne Jr
Physical tools as displayed on tape and in person play the biggest role in recruiting rankings.
Posted on 1/16/17 at 10:29 pm to djsdawg
quote:
Physical tools as displayed on tape and in person
You know what else is displayed on those? Decision making and attitude. Something that Fromm excels at and Hockman doesn't.
Alright, I'm done hijacking the thread with this. At least I didn't take to 5 pages like others before would have.
Posted on 1/17/17 at 7:57 am to Porter Osborne Jr
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When did he get suspended on the football team?
Last year, his dad suspended him.
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I've coached against both of them multiple times. The only thing that separates them is what's between the ears.
One is a 5 star on Rivals and was a USAA starter. The other wasn't invited to any All Star games. I have seen both in person. Fromm is just simply better.
Posted on 1/17/17 at 8:17 am to mmjones87
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Last year, his dad suspended him.
What game was that? I know he's not allowed to play on the baseball team but I never heard of him being suspended for football.
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Fromm is just simply better
I never said he wasn't
I was just talking about physical tools only.
Posted on 1/17/17 at 10:04 am to Porter Osborne Jr
quote:
Rivals.com National Recruiting Director Mike Farrell’s Three-Point Stance is here with the most controversial 2017 rankings, five prospects that could outperform their ranking and a quick look at Georgia's elite company.
1. THE MOST CONTROVERSIAL RANKINGS
The final Rivals100 for the class of 2017 has been released with the Rivals250 set to be released today. In nearly two weeks, these prospects will put pen to paper and sign with college programs. Having covered this class since our first ranking back in 2015, I can tell you the five guys who have drawn the most buzz when it comes to their rankings. And I can explain how we settled on their final ranking.
1. OL Trey Smith – Hands down the Tennessee commitment has drawn the most attention simply because another network put him at No. 1 overall and the rest followed suit with a high five-star ranking. For us, Smith is a very good prospect who will either be a guard or a right tackle at Tennessee and have a terrific career. We feel comfortable with him finishing just inside the national top 50. But we never saw No. 1 overall and never truly saw a five-star prospect, especially in a class loaded with elite offensive tackle talent and the best center prospect I’ve scouted in probably the last decade.
2. LB Dylan Moses – Moses has gone for a wild ride in the rankings, starting off at No. 2 in the country, sliding outside the five-star range at No. 32 and finishing right there but earning that fifth star back. He was a middle school phenom who became an elite running back prospect and was then re-classified as an athlete as he tried to transition to linebacker. Between his senior year and his Under Armour week performance, he joined guys like Dante Fowler and Raekwon McMillan in recent years to lose that fifth star only to gain it back.
3. RB Najee Harris – Everyone seems to love Harris, but after Cam Akers' senior film came out, some fell in love with Akers a bit more. While Akers is more of a sure-thing at Florida State than Harris is at Alabama, there is little doubt in my mind that Harris has the higher ceiling in the long run. How can you rank a sure thing over a prospect you’re not convinced could turn into a superstar? That’s the risk you sometimes take at running back. Back in 2009 Trent Richardson (No. 6 nationally) was more of a sure thing than Bryce Brown (No. 1 overall) but Brown had a higher ceiling. Obviously the two had very different careers in college. Time will tell if we are seeing a repeat of that.
4. OL Isaiah Wilson – Some don’t have Wilson in their top 100 and everyone except Rivals feels that Trey Smith is a better prospect as an offensive tackle. The argument could be made that, like Smith, Wilson will either be a guard or a tackle at the next level but in our evaluation he’s taller, longer and is further from his ceiling. This will be a fun one to keep an eye on.
5. DBs DeAngelo Gibbs and Richard LeCounte – Both Gibbs and LeCounte are ranked as five-star prospects elsewhere and are far from it on Rivals. They are polarizing in many ways. Gibbs was a five-star at one time but regressed in coverage and we re-classified him as an athlete, while the highest LeCounte got is his current ranking at No. 58. Both players are still highly ranked, so either they both become first-round superstars and we are wrong or they have excellent careers and we are closer to correct. But our view of the duo is different than others for sure.
2. FIVE PROSPECTS THAT COULD OUTPERFORM THEIR RANKING
There are prospects in every class who exceed expectations and, invariably, these misses are highlighted by fans. It comes with the territory. Running back Nick Chubb is a great example; he was ranked No. 35 in the Rivals100 and was just two spots away from a fifth-star. Essentially Chubb was not a “miss” at all, but since he’s played more like a five-star than some five-star running backs in that 2014 class like Racean Thomas, Sony Michel, Elijah Hood and especially Jalen Hurd, many feel he was a “miss.” You get the point.
In the 2017 class, there are a few prospects that could end up being superstars but, for one reason or another, didn’t get that fifth star. Here are my top five:
1. QB Tate Martell – Yes, the Ohio State quarterback commitment is short, but he has that “it” factor and a competitive drive that’s hard to match. Maturity is an issue and time will tell whether he’s patient enough to wait his turn in Columbus. If he puts it all together, we will be talking about a Heisman candidate.
2. RB D’Andre Swift – Swift just wasn’t sudden enough to earn that fifth star despite the fact that he’s a powerful runner with good vision and shows good patience. The last two Georgia running back commitments we held back on making five-stars were Todd Gurley and Chubb, so that might bode well for him.
3. TE Brock Wright – I’m a big fan of Wright and his game is very much like Jason Witten when it comes to inline blocking and finding the open spot in the intermediate passing game. But what if he adds a half-step of quickness and becomes more of a downfield threat? Watch out.
4. WR Cedarian Lamb – With the Sooners' wide open offense having produced stat-stuffing wide receivers in recent years, will Lamb be the next one? His high school production makes me wonder if we’re looking at the next Big 12 superstar.
5. DB Grant Delpit – There's something about Delpit – his range, his instincts, his length – that makes me think he could be the next defensive back star at LSU.
3. GEORGIA IN ELITE COMPANY
One final quick note here: Georgia quarterback commit Jake Fromm earned his fifth-star in this final 2017 rankings update, which puts the Bulldogs in very elite company. Georgia (Jacob Eason, Fromm) joins Florida (Tim Tebow, Cam Newton) and Notre Dame (Jimmy Clausen, Dayne Crist) as the only programs to land a five-star quarterback in back-to-back classes. Clemson is in line to be the fourth with Hunter Johnson inking this year and 2018 No. 1 overall Trevor Lawrence pledged to the Tigers, but that won’t be official until Lawrence signs.
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