re: Which school in the SEC would you send your children?

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My question is based the FACT that: attending schools with higher admissions standards creates for a more competitive environment (harder to get that A on a curned scale) and a 3.8 gpa at an Ivy is not equal to a 3.8 at ULL. I know this having attended UVA Tulane and LaTech. All had stark differences in course rigor.

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I actually feel very strongly about this. GPA shows how hard one can work given a specific structure, I believe its bascially a measure of discipline. I'm not sayin it should be discounted at all, but GPA doesn't have a large bearing on capacity to perform tasks especially in an extremely open-ended environment that most of the top job placements put you in. We may agree to disagree but I don't believe someone should be rewarded for getting a higher GPA at a "better" school. My whole point is education is the responisbility of the individual. My GPA at Arkansas was not stellar by any means but that was because I also took Honors Physics, Calculus, and minored in Philosophy because I loved the material on top of my Finance and Econ. It was also because it didn't really bother me to get a B or an A in some classes, as long as I knew the material afterwards. Luckily I got to the interview process and was able to have that pay off.

If you want to judge the quality of a school's education by grade competitiveness then go ahead. If you want to judge it by alumni network then go ahead. If you want to judge it based on US News Rankings then go ahead. The reason I put quotations on better before school is that I believe these factors are not really that significant in the grand scheme of the never ending process of learning. The only thing they really do is give schools something to footnote on an advertisement along with giving people something to argue about on message boards.

I agree that GPA is a test of discipline but let's be honest here. It's also a measure of your mastery of the material and general intelligence. Companies do weigh GPA heavily and won't even interview candidates below a certain level. Companies also recognize your point that GPA does not necessarily mean you're going to succeed in the real world. Thats why internships and the interview process are also weighed very heavily.

All I am saying is, if you're interviewing two candidates with equal GPA and equal qualifications (personality and experience), I am taking the more prestigious school and curriculum.

How far do you extrapolate this? Is Harvard the same as Ole Miss?

And at what point does the ability to afford faculty make an impact? Do they have no impact on comprehension or real world experiences? Is all curriculum created equal? Does a university's ability and reputation have no bearing on grants, computer labs or advanced software used in industry? Are tests and assignments across universities homogeneous? Does cross listing courses between majors have any impact at all? What about anything outside of curriculum? Special events? Competitions? Does the intelligence of peers have any bearing at all?


I was a petroleum engineering major. I don't think I have ever encountered a petroleum engineer from Arkansas, so I'm going to assume you don't have a program. I think this can sort of help you look objectively at it, since you aren't biased by a program that your school offers. In my time in College Station, I worked on a project involved with a professor that was helping the US government rewrite the laws on how companies reported oil reserves. I was taught reservoir engineering, and the principles there of, by a man who one of the chief reservoir engineers for BP in the North Sea. The capstone project for all seniors involved lots of proprietary information and hands on experience with actual engineers involved with one of the largest reservoirs in the gulf, something not available to any other university. SPE meetings with presenters that only came to A&M and maybe a few other select universities. Lots of funding to attend things like ATCE and OTC.


Sure. You might believe that someone that graduated from my program had the same ability to grasp thermodynamics as an industrial engineer from Arkansas, but if that's all you think about the school experience... Arkansas is a way worse school than I thought.

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How far do you extrapolate this? Is Harvard the same as Ole Miss?

And at what point does the ability to afford faculty make an impact? Do they have no impact on comprehension or real world experiences? Is all curriculum created equal? Does a university's ability and reputation have no bearing on grants, computer labs or advanced software used in industry? Are tests and assignments across universities homogeneous? Does cross listing courses between majors have any impact at all? What about anything outside of curriculum? Special events? Competitions? Does the intelligence of peers have any bearing at all?


I was a petroleum engineering major. I don't think I have ever encountered a petroleum engineer from Arkansas, so I'm going to assume you don't have a program. I think this can sort of help you look objectively at it, since you aren't biased by a program that your school offers. In my time in College Station, I worked on a project involved with a professor that was helping the US government rewrite the laws on how companies reported oil reserves. I was taught reservoir engineering, and the principles there of, by a man who one of the chief reservoir engineers for BP in the North Sea. The capstone project for all seniors involved lots of proprietary information and hands on experience with actual engineers involved with one of the largest reservoirs in the gulf, something not available to any other university. SPE meetings with presenters that only came to A&M and maybe a few other select universities. Lots of funding to attend things like ATCE and OTC.


Sure. You might believe that someone that graduated from my program had the same ability to grasp thermodynamics as an industrial engineer from Arkansas, but if that's all you think about the school experience... Arkansas is a way worse school than I thought.

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How far do you extrapolate this? Is Harvard the same as Ole Miss?

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I am really getting sick of repeating myself. I didn't extrapolate anything. I compared the schools I have been closely involved with and came to the conclusion that the curriculum they teach are very similar. My evidence is personal experience in these classes as well as observing and being involved in the application of knowledge acquired in various mediums from people from said schools. I have made no predictions, nor am I going to. I don't know how good engineers from Harvard are because I haven't worked with any. I don't know how good engineers from Ole Miss are because I haven't worked with them. I do know that all SEC schools are "good" schools, and I wouldn't hesitate to say that they all produce some extremely intelligent people. Beyond that I just don't know.

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And at what point does the ability to afford faculty make an impact?

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I don't know.

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I was a petroleum engineering major. I don't think I have ever encountered a petroleum engineer from Arkansas, so I'm going to assume you don't have a program. I think this can sort of help you look objectively at it, since you aren't biased by a program that your school offers. In my time in College Station, I worked on a project involved with a professor that was helping the US government rewrite the laws on how companies reported oil reserves. I was taught reservoir engineering, and the principles there of, by a man who one of the chief reservoir engineers for BP in the North Sea. The capstone project for all seniors involved lots of proprietary information and hands on experience with actual engineers involved with one of the largest reservoirs in the gulf, something not available to any other university. SPE meetings with presenters that only came to A&M and maybe a few other select universities. Lots of funding to attend things like ATCE and OTC.

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I'm happy for you. I don't know if Arky has a petroleum engineering program. Btw, I'm not biased towards anything. In fact, I am completely neutral. Please don't come to the false conclusion that just because my undergrad is at UofA I wouldn't be the first to call them out if their method of teaching me was inferior to that of Gatech.

I don't know anything about your program, nor do I particularly care. A&M's petroleum engineering program may be better than Arkansas', and if Arkansas doesn't even have one then you are kind of arguing a moot point. I am talking about MY experience in MY major and the conclusion that I came to from it. I don't have enough experience outside of that to come to a conclusion. All I have is other people's opinions and rankings that I have learned not to take particularly seriously.

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I do know that all SEC schools are "good" schools, and I wouldn't hesitate to say that they all produce some extremely intelligent people. Beyond that I just don't know.

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For the record, we agree on this.

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So - everyone put your dicks away. You can measure them and compare notes later. Damn.

As I stated in the first post
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It can be based on anything you want – athletics, academics, general atmosphere, easy coeds, etc… (You are the parent).


Folks - this is opinion based - frick. The input is good, but let's keep it in perspective. cheers:

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Come on we were having fun. I was just focusing on one aspect of your criteria. My opinion on the subject is I would happily send them to any SEC school and it would be up to them. Of course I would offer council based on what I know and what I could find out from 3rd party sources. If everything was equal I would love to have them on the hill.

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Which school in the SEC would you send your children?

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I would send my kid to any SEC school, given the right circumstances. They can get an amazing education at all of them. They can also get a shitty one from all of them. You couldn't pay me to read this frickin thread.

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Yes it is, therefore it holds within schools as well. The same education plus smarter people produces better graduates.

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The school adds nothing to this. "Smarter people produce better graduates" is more accurate.

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It makes it a better place to get one's education.

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In my experience, I disagree. I thing they are quite equal.

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I never said a word about the engineering curriculum. I prefaced my statement about the curriculum with this: "Then why not stay at Arkansas? I did not stay there because the graduate students in my program did not get jobs." Please show me where I made a comment about engineering.

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And I DID speak in regards to curriculum. That is what this whole thing is about. You and others are the ones that have attempted to throw in variables such as endowment and salaries. These are not connected, I'm sorry.

You made a blanket statement. Do you know what that means? Your generic statement about the school as a whole goes against my experience, and I called you out on it. If that is the case in your area of study then so be it but I don't share that conclusion with you.

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You called me dense first. I only borrowed and improved upon one of your stops after you pulled it out, nice try though.

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Haha, yeah...because calling someone "dense" is the EXACT same thing as calling someone an a-hole and regarding their life as a "narrow sliver of crap".

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It proves that a student is better off at A&M. Yes more goes into this, I never said it didn't. I am only saying all things equal they are better off at the better school.

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No, it doesn't.

4 + 2 = 6
6 + 2 = 8

2 = 2

I thought you Aggies were supposed to be super smart??

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Yes, and smarter people go to better schools. So, better schools produce better graduates. Neat, huh?

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Yet again it has nothing to do with the school in my example.

Bob gives his investor a thousand dollars, and he turns into int 1500 dollars. Tim gives his investor 2000 dollars and he turns it into 2200 dollars. Time has more money in the end so that OBVIOUSLY means that his investor is better, right?

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Your experience is meaningless.

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As is yours good sir.

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Yes, and I spoke about it with respect to my department. I did this in order to hopefully show that your engineering experience does not translate.

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Don't care whether or not it does. It is not my concern.

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Wrong again. Let me post the whole thing: "Then why not stay at Arkansas? I did not stay there because the graduate students in my program did not get jobs. They also have no real knowledge of how our discipline works. They do not even offer the same type of courses. The curriculum is stuck in the 1970s. Yet, according to you, I would be just as well off there. " Notice the words "my program" and "our discipline" are not the same as "your program", "your discipline" or engineering.

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I was under the impression that it was assumed we were talking about engineering here because it makes absolutely no sense for you to try to defend a major that I have no experience with. I've made it very clear that my opinion is directed towards my major and only my major, and I have made no attempt to say otherwise.

Since you are talking about something completely different I really don't know why were are still talking because neither one of us knows enough about the other's major to come to any sort of viable conclusion on the matter.

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I never said that it was the same. You started the name calling. I simply took it up a notch.

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I think "dense" is the perfect description because you simply will not actually read what I am typing and instead keep repeating the same thing over and over, none of which has to do with the education you receive. If you can find a better adjective I will be happy to use it.

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2 =2, 8 > 6, A&M(academics) > Ark(academics)

higher standards -> better students = better graduates

better students -> better educational environment = better graduates

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Sigh. I give up. This by itself should have told me that you definitely didn't major in anything math related.

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Yet again it has nothing to do with the school in my example.

Bob gives his investor a thousand dollars, and he turns into int 1500 dollars. Tim gives his investor 2000 dollars and he turns it into 2200 dollars. Time has more money in the end so that OBVIOUSLY means that his investor is better, right?

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I got lost. Who is time? Sigh, I give up. This by itself should have told me that you definitely didn't major in anything spelling related. :roll eyes:

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As is yours good sir.

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I am not the one basing anything but what I do on my own experience. You seem to think we should all subscribe to your experience over a ranking, which your experience declares meaningless.

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Don't care whether or not it does. It is not my concern.

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This first sentence needs a subject. Sigh, I give up. This by itself should have told me that you definitely didn't major in anything English related. :roll eyes:

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I was under the impression that it was assumed we were talking about engineering here because it makes absolutely no sense for you to try to defend a major that I have no experience with. I've made it very clear that my opinion is directed towards my major and only my major, and I have made no attempt to say otherwise.

Since you are talking about something completely different I really don't know why were are still talking because neither one of us knows enough about the other's major to come to any sort of viable conclusion on the matter.

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Why in the hell would I argue all of this based on engineering? You know damn well that I have been arguing in general terms about universities as a whole. Do not try to cop out now that you realized your experience is path dependent.

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I think "dense" is the perfect description because you simply will not actually read what I am typing and instead keep repeating the same thing over and over, none of which has to do with the education you receive. If you can find a better adjective I will be happy to use it.

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I have read it. It is just hard to follow with all of the spelling and grammatical mistakes. Sigh, I give up. All of those mistakes should have told me that you were not intellectually capable of conducting a rational argument. :roll eyes:

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Sigh. I give up. This by itself should have told me that you definitely didn't major in anything math related.

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It is funny that you say that. On a serious note, this is part of my problem. My field at the graduate level is quite mathematical. At the undergraduate level this is not always the case, especially at lower ranked universities. At Arkansas, the only course required for the degree was college algebra. At A&M, they require 3 calculus courses and linear/matrix algebra. Of course a student at either one would come out with the same skills. Given this, my fuzzy math skills sure are confusing... :bang head:

Is 2 not equal to 2? I borrowed that one from you after all. Is 8 not greater than 6? Maybe I didn't get that far in college algebra at Arkansas.

The rest of the argument is logical. Higher standards should and do yield higher quality students.

Higher quality students should and do make cognate students perform better than if they were around lower quality peers.

Each of these yields better graduates.