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re: Explain the Harsin comparisons to DeBoer with logic.
Posted on 1/22/24 at 1:43 pm to 3down10
Posted on 1/22/24 at 1:43 pm to 3down10
quote:
Their last 3 classes have been top10 classes.
4 of their 5 classes before BK were top10 class.
The only 2 times they didn't bring in top10 classes consistently were the Willingham and BK years.
No doubt, we have roughly 23 years of recruiting data.
If we selectively remove roughly 15 years of it, Notre Dame had top 10 classes in some of those remaining years (based on which recruiting service you use).
Who can argue with that?
quote:
They just finished 10-3, about the same as they would under BK.
BK didn't accumulate 3 losses in a single season his last 4 years at Notre Dame.
Freeman hasn't been able to get under 3 losses in his first 2 years.
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Posted on 1/22/24 at 2:05 pm to SidewalkTiger
quote:
No doubt, we have roughly 23 years of recruiting data.
If we selectively remove roughly 15 years of it, Notre Dame had top 10 classes in some of those remaining years (based on which recruiting service you use).
Who can argue with that?
11 of those years are from BK. The other 4 years are from 1 other coach/coaching change year.
And you said you don't dispute Notre Dame recruited well before the rankings.
quote:
BK didn't accumulate 3 losses in a single season his last 4 years at Notre Dame.
Freeman hasn't been able to get under 3 losses in his first 2 years.
You're talking about 1 or 2 games, and the schedules for ND have gotten tougher the past few years as teams like USC have improved. Last year for example they played 4 ranked teams when under BK they usually played only 2.
So a little drop off in record, but seems to be about the same overall in team strength to me.
This post was edited on 1/22/24 at 2:06 pm
Posted on 1/22/24 at 2:22 pm to 3down10
quote:
11 of those years are from BK. The other 4 years are from 1 other coach/coaching change year.
I mean those definitely count, you can't pull 3 of Weiss' years and say that's Notre Dame's baseline.
Those were outliers more than anything.
Both of Freeman's classes are borderline top 10, depending on which service you use.
On3 says Notre Dame's average class since 2002 is #16.
quote:
You're talking about 1 or 2 games
Um, no.
Freeman lost 5 games in 2022 and 3 in 2023.
BK never lost more than 2 in his last 4 seasons.
There has definitely been a drop off.
quote:
and the schedules for ND have gotten tougher the past few years as teams like USC have improved. Last year for example they played 4 ranked teams when under BK they usually played only 2.
I recall them facing 4 or so ranked teams in years lile 2018 and 2019
Posted on 1/22/24 at 3:13 pm to SidewalkTiger
quote:
I mean those definitely count, you can't pull 3 of Weiss' years and say that's Notre Dame's baseline.
Those were outliers more than anything.
Both of Freeman's classes are borderline top 10, depending on which service you use.
On3 says Notre Dame's average class since 2002 is #16.
If you want to compare someone to what the school does without them, you remove them. It would be like including Saban's stats while talking about how well Alabama recruits without Saban.
Good luck, I'm done with this stupid crap.
Posted on 1/22/24 at 3:15 pm to WeTheTide
Posted on 1/22/24 at 3:43 pm to 3down10
quote:
If you want to compare someone to what the school does without them, you remove them.
I never compared Kelly to what the school has done without him, I simply said they aren't an elite program over the last 30 years.
Even back to the recruiting argument, it isn't like Freeman has recruited drastically better than Kelly.
Per On3, after removing transition classes for both, Kelly averages #13 and Freeman averages #10. That isn't elite no matter how you slice it.
quote:
Good luck, I'm done with this stupid crap.
I don't blame you, your "arguments" are nonsense.
Only casuals still believe Notre Dame is elite and being a blue blood actually means anything, outside of bragging rights.
Posted on 1/22/24 at 10:13 pm to 3down10
quote:
Harsin was the one who followed Chris Peterson.
I am aware. I am also aware of the coach between Peterson and Debeor. What I said was, is that most of those seniors and juniors were kids from Chris Peterson Era. Deboer hasn’t won with his own guys yet. He can’t recruit and after 2 years he’s left so he’s not exposed if not building a team.
Posted on 1/23/24 at 12:51 am to Hot_in_the_box
quote:
I am aware. I am also aware of the coach between Peterson and Debeor. What I said was, is that most of those seniors and juniors were kids from Chris Peterson Era. Deboer hasn’t won with his own guys yet. He can’t recruit and after 2 years he’s left so he’s not exposed if not building a team.
It's the guy who retired in 2019 that is responsible for their 2023 season? With such great guys on the rooster and that level of recruiter, makes you wonder how they managed to only win 4 games 2 years ago.
Dang, now I wish he was following someone who recruited well at Alabama.
This post was edited on 1/23/24 at 12:55 am
Posted on 1/23/24 at 1:17 am to SidewalkTiger
quote:
Only casuals still believe Notre Dame is elite and being a blue blood actually means anything, outside of bragging rights.
Nobody claimed Notre Dame was elite. The fact they are a blue blood means all they need is a good coach to come in, and then they can be elite again.
They made the playoffs with BK, imagine if they had an elite coach.
People said the same shite about Alabama before Saban.
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