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Pay to Play Topic #1 for 2014

Posted on 2/13/14 at 10:53 am
Posted by deeprig9
Unincorporated Ozora, Georgia
Member since Sep 2012
63958 posts
Posted on 2/13/14 at 10:53 am
Someone shoot down my idea.

I know the reason you can't allow players to make money from their autographs or likeness because it's too easily abused, it would allow a booster to give you 10,000 for your autograph if you come to this school, then another booster says I'll give you 11,000 for your autograph if you come to this school, etc.

What if you made a rule that you could make money on your autographs with the following two conditions:

1: You must have completed 4 semesters at your school to be eligible

2: You must go through an NCAA pre-authorized "dealer" of autographs that is ruled by the NCAA, so you could set up at a local Walmart signing footballs for $20 a piece and it all works through the non-profit "NCAA Authorized Agent".




It seems like if it restricted it to Juniors and up, then you wouldn't have to worry about it being a recruiting tool, and if it was all done out in the open with an open-book NCAA authorized dealer, of which many details would have to be worked out, then you could keep some guys around that might otherwise go to the NFL. It's good for the football programs, and the players get to make money too.

Posted by Tuscaloosa
11x Award Winning SECRant user
Member since Dec 2011
46608 posts
Posted on 2/13/14 at 11:00 am to
What's to keep Booster X from purchasing 5,000 autographs for $20 a piece?
Posted by deeprig9
Unincorporated Ozora, Georgia
Member since Sep 2012
63958 posts
Posted on 2/13/14 at 11:02 am to
Booster X would have to go through the NCAA authorized dealer, and there would have to be some rule to prevent that. Give me a minute and I'll think of something.
Posted by PrivatePublic
Member since Nov 2012
17848 posts
Posted on 2/13/14 at 11:14 am to
Just to be clear: 4 semesters at your current school or 4 semesters period?
Posted by stat19
Member since Feb 2011
29350 posts
Posted on 2/13/14 at 11:21 am to
Let them form their own league - straight out of high school if the want to get paid.

Posted by deeprig9
Unincorporated Ozora, Georgia
Member since Sep 2012
63958 posts
Posted on 2/13/14 at 11:22 am to
quote:

Just to be clear: 4 semesters at your current school or 4 semesters period?



Good question.

I want to say at your current school, but that would eliminate people like Jarvis Jones and Zach Mett, and pretty much any JUCO.

The idea of the 4 semester rule is to keep the benefit far enough removed from the recruiting phase of a player's career to maintain a perception of cleanliness and fairness.

Maybe 4 semesters at your school or the age of 20?
Posted by bona fide
Burma
Member since Jun 2010
8972 posts
Posted on 2/13/14 at 11:26 am to
Money finds its way to players now, both legally and illegally. No amount of new rules or extra money will prevent NCAA rules from being broken.
Posted by Tiger Live2
Westwego, LA
Member since Mar 2012
9590 posts
Posted on 2/13/14 at 11:30 am to
I'm liking your ideas. Maybe restrict senior transfers(ala R. Wilson) from being able to do it at all. That seems to easily lead to many more senior transfers and abuse of the system.
Posted by deeprig9
Unincorporated Ozora, Georgia
Member since Sep 2012
63958 posts
Posted on 2/13/14 at 11:32 am to
quote:

What's to keep Booster X from purchasing 5,000 autographs for $20 a piece?



Let's say Todd Gurley is set up at the Monroe Walmart at the intersection of Hwy 138 and 10.

There are 300 people lined up around the block to get an autographed picture for $25 each, Gurley keeps $20, the NCAA Authorized Dealer keeps $5 for overhead and compliance administration.

Technically, everyone in line would meet the definition of a booster, whether they went to UGA, or bought tickets to a game at some point, they would all meet that definition.

Make the limit 5, or 7 or 3, let's just say 5 per person.

Then it wouldn't matter if one person in line has $130 in their checking acccount, and the person in line behind them has $700,000 in his checking account. You can only buy 5 signed footballs.

Now, next week Gurley sets up at the Walmart in his home town in North Carolina, and another 300 people are in line for his autograph. Mr $700,000 could make the trip up there to buy another 5 autographs, get back at the end of the line, and buy another 5 footballs while wearing a different hat and a fake mustache, and he's technically getting 15 signed footballs and putting $300 into Gurley's pocket.

Now let's say Gurley does 10 of these events this year, and Broker X goes to all of them, and let's say there are 10 broker X's.

So all 10 of them go to all 10 events and get in line twice wearing a disguise, Gurley is getting $2000 off them.

That's really just a drop in the bucket because he'd be making $60,000 from the other 300 people at all of the events.

And that sure is alot of trouble for 10 super-boosters to go through for a relatively small benefit to the individual player.

And that means those same boosters can't be at Keith Marshall's signings, or any of the other players holding signings around the state that a booster would want to boost.
Posted by RD Dawg
Atlanta
Member since Sep 2012
27297 posts
Posted on 2/13/14 at 11:32 am to
quote:

Booster X would have to go through an NCAA authorized dealer


So is this dealer going to qualify anyone who wants to get an autograph?Whats to prevent Booster X from sending 20 of his friends to get an autograph?
Posted by Tuscaloosa
11x Award Winning SECRant user
Member since Dec 2011
46608 posts
Posted on 2/13/14 at 11:39 am to
I think it's a plausible idea.

Perhaps cap the limit of autographs per session, and limit the number of autograph signing sessions.

Does the NCAA have the resources to effectively manage something like that?
Posted by deeprig9
Unincorporated Ozora, Georgia
Member since Sep 2012
63958 posts
Posted on 2/13/14 at 11:45 am to
quote:

Does the NCAA have the resources to effectively manage something like that?



The authorized dealers would manage it for a percentage of the take. Because it would be a cash cow, the incentive is for the dealers to follow the rules strictly, less they get their authorization yanked. There would also be audits to make sure the dealers didn't have any other business activities or relationships that would compromise the integrity of the program.
Posted by deeprig9
Unincorporated Ozora, Georgia
Member since Sep 2012
63958 posts
Posted on 2/13/14 at 11:47 am to
quote:

So is this dealer going to qualify anyone who wants to get an autograph?Whats to prevent Booster X from sending 20 of his friends to get an autograph?


Some cap system. If a booster is going to sneak some way around the cap to break rules, there are already easier rules they can get around for a much higher benefit to the player, through the family.
Posted by Tuscaloosa
11x Award Winning SECRant user
Member since Dec 2011
46608 posts
Posted on 2/13/14 at 1:57 pm to
quote:

The authorized dealers would manage it for a percentage of the take. Because it would be a cash cow, the incentive is for the dealers to follow the rules strictly, less they get their authorization yanked. There would also be audits to make sure the dealers didn't have any other business activities or relationships that would compromise the integrity of the program.


How do you keep the dealers from allowing XXXX number of autographs instead of XXXX number of autographs and pocketing the extra and not reporting it?
Posted by deeprig9
Unincorporated Ozora, Georgia
Member since Sep 2012
63958 posts
Posted on 2/13/14 at 3:03 pm to
quote:

How do you keep the dealers from allowing XXXX number of autographs instead of XXXX number of autographs and pocketing the extra and not reporting it?




The chilling effect of getting caught, the open books standard, auditing by 3rd party auditers.

If your company was making an easy $5,000,000 a year with very low overhead, you'd be pretty stupid to try and frick that up by trying to squeeze out another $1,000,000 by breaking the rules, knowing you are going to be audited.

And it probably wouldn't be # of autographs, it would probably be dollar amount.


Also, notarized affidavits would be part of the application process to be authorized by NCAA. If you frick up... or cheat.... you are criminally liable for purgery.
This post was edited on 2/13/14 at 3:05 pm
Posted by RBWilliams8
Member since Oct 2009
53417 posts
Posted on 2/13/14 at 3:06 pm to
quote:

1: You must have completed 4 semesters at your school to be eligible


"After you complete your full semester here give you $10,000"


"After you complete 4 semesters HERE I'll give you 20,000"
Posted by deeprig9
Unincorporated Ozora, Georgia
Member since Sep 2012
63958 posts
Posted on 2/13/14 at 4:07 pm to
quote:

"After you complete your full semester here give you $10,000"


"After you complete 4 semesters HERE I'll give you 20,000"


And this differs in what way from the current regulations on impermissible benefits or contact from boosters?

Posted by roadGator
Member since Feb 2009
140363 posts
Posted on 2/13/14 at 4:36 pm to
It differs because that type of behavior is against the rules now. If you condone the autograph signing then there will those that figure out how to use it to their advantage.

Amateur athletes should not be paid. They are getting a free education from a good school in some cases, room and board.

They are also getting valuable training in their craft should they aspire to play in the NFL.

If they want to get paid, go play in Canada and forget school.
Posted by RBWilliams8
Member since Oct 2009
53417 posts
Posted on 2/13/14 at 4:44 pm to
Exactly.

Eventually, like most things, it will always come down to the highest bidder.
Posted by deeprig9
Unincorporated Ozora, Georgia
Member since Sep 2012
63958 posts
Posted on 2/13/14 at 4:51 pm to
quote:

It differs because that type of behavior is against the rules now. If you condone the autograph signing then there will those that figure out how to use it to their advantage.

Amateur athletes should not be paid. They are getting a free education from a good school in some cases, room and board.

They are also getting valuable training in their craft should they aspire to play in the NFL.

If they want to get paid, go play in Canada and forget school.



I agree with the spirit of your post.

But I'm not talking about paying players.

I'm talking about players being able to make money off their own likeness. The stuff Johnny was accused of doing illegally, and the stuff Aaron Murray was doing 1 week from when he declared for the draft.

Murray set up at Georgia Square Mall and sold autographs for $20 a piece.

I think it's ridiculous that he or Johnny shouldn't be able to do that while in college.

The main roadblock is the ability to abuse it, as already outlined in this thread.

If a way to remove that roadblock could be put in motion and still protect the integrity of college athletics, why would you be against it?
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