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re: OT: Syrian Refugees

Posted on 11/17/15 at 7:49 am to
Posted by ABearsFanNMS
Formerly of tLandmass now in Texas
Member since Oct 2014
19801 posts
Posted on 11/17/15 at 7:49 am to
quote:

rebelcommodore


Basically agree 100% with Rebcommodore. To tackle this situation we need to truly assimilate them into society if they come. Also Obama's strategy against ISIS will never work. History has proven you can't not defeat an army wit air power alone so we need boots on the ground. Also until the general public grows a spine we will always be hamstrung by "rules" that ISIS doesn't have to be concerned about.
Posted by SouthMSReb
Member since Dec 2013
4704 posts
Posted on 11/17/15 at 8:01 am to
quote:

History has proven you can't not defeat an army wit air power alone


I know we had troops stationed in the South Pacific, but we pretty much defeated Japan with "Air Power", didn't we? No actual boots on the ground in Japan.
Posted by DownSouthJukin
1x tRant Poster of the Millennium
Member since Jan 2014
31370 posts
Posted on 11/17/15 at 8:13 am to
quote:

I know we had troops stationed in the South Pacific, but we pretty much defeated Japan with "Air Power", didn't we? No actual boots on the ground in Japan.


Frick I hope you're kidding. You are kidding. Right? That is sarcasm, correct?
This post was edited on 11/17/15 at 8:14 am
Posted by ABearsFanNMS
Formerly of tLandmass now in Texas
Member since Oct 2014
19801 posts
Posted on 11/17/15 at 8:14 am to
I guess you missed the whole "Island Hopping Campaign" in your history classes. But, yes you are partially correct in the fact that we used nuclear bombs to bring Japan to it's knees. I highly doubt we will ever do that again.
Posted by SouthMSReb
Member since Dec 2013
4704 posts
Posted on 11/17/15 at 9:35 am to
Unfortunately, no. I thought we were fighting in the South Pacific Islands but never had troops in places such as Tokyo, Nagasaki, Hiroshima.
Posted by ABearsFanNMS
Formerly of tLandmass now in Texas
Member since Oct 2014
19801 posts
Posted on 11/17/15 at 9:47 am to
This may help you.

LINK

In modern warfare you will never be able to dominate a foe without a combined arms approach. Modern armies have tried again and again to "bomb a foe" into submission and failed each time. In regards to the South Pacific we needed to actually capture specific strategic islands so we could establish air bases within range of main land Japan (ie. Iwo Jima).

Not sure how Obama is being advised right now but the thought process of utilizing air power (manned or unmanned) to completely neutralize a foe is wrong. It will degrade their ability to wage war but never neutralize them. The only thing I can think of is there are stipulations in place such as "ground operations must be wrapped up prior to new administration or election year". Insurgencies take DECADES to defeat (ref the British in Malaysia)
This post was edited on 11/17/15 at 9:51 am
Posted by DownSouthJukin
1x tRant Poster of the Millennium
Member since Jan 2014
31370 posts
Posted on 11/17/15 at 9:50 am to
quote:

I thought we were fighting in the South Pacific Islands but never had troops in places such as Tokyo, Nagasaki, Hiroshima.


Maybe I misunderstood because you said "stationed" in your original post, which is different than fighting.

I ask, however, did the troops fighting on the South Pacific Islands count less than if we had to put them on Honshu? Does that not make them "boots on the ground"? Additionally, we did have ground troops on the main islands after the war serving in an occupation capacity.

The war in the Pacific was as much a ground war as it was a sea and air war. We also had ground troops throughout Southeast Asia, including China and Burma (which were mainly British areas of interest and ground fighting).

No war has ever been won, or ever will be won, with air power alone. Unfortunately, air power does not hold ground. What air power does do, when utilized properly, is support a ground war. When utilized improperly, it serves as a recruiting tool for the persons whom we are using it against.
This post was edited on 11/17/15 at 9:58 am
Posted by OMLandshark
Member since Apr 2009
119977 posts
Posted on 11/17/15 at 9:59 am to
quote:

I disagree with this. The U.S.A. should always keep an open eye to poach and bring the smartest minds from all over the world. The brain drain of other nations is our benefit.


Agreed. I have no problem bringing over the Indians, the Chinese, and Japanese. They love American culture and assimilate very quickly, all while continuing to maintain their family values and positive aspects of their culture. Syrians, I don't know how much good can come from that culture.
Posted by GnashRebel
Member since May 2015
8815 posts
Posted on 11/17/15 at 10:02 am to
Air power can do certain things alone. If your goal is to kill a guy or a couple of guys it might work. Punishment for some type of crime or attack. Forcing an existing government to come to terms. Limited and narrow goals.

If you are trying to destroy a large, territory holding government and wrest power from them permanently, you typically need to combine that with a ground force of some type. In this case, the ground force doesn't have to be US but it will have to be somebody. Options:

Assad: He is a bad guy but maybe he is the lesser of two evils. Probably easiest.
Ba'athist Military Leadership: Maybe additional pressure from the world, including Russia can lead to the military ousting Assad but retaining the rest of the power structure
Free Syrian Rebels: Would be nice, but it sure seems like that ship sailed long ago when Obama left them hanging. Also would demand some western ground and air support at the very least.
Arab militaries: Peacekeeping forces from the Arab countries seems far fetched and Iran would probably not be impressed.
Coalition: US, Russian, European, etc. Hard to see it happening without a US commitment.
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