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re: UPDATE: NASA Has Used Google's Machine Learning to Make a Major Alien Planet Discovery

Posted on 12/17/17 at 12:42 pm to
Posted by StrawsDrawnAtRandom
Member since Sep 2013
21146 posts
Posted on 12/17/17 at 12:42 pm to
quote:

I agree and I think our leadership has thought would happen after the glory days of the moon missions. It hasn't. Only a couple of companies are interested in exploring space and SpaceX, the leader, is only interested in performing work for the government, a guaranteed payer.


Of course, all that paying with debt won't come back to kill us or cause World War III/IV. Unfortunately, I think the private market is at least a decade behind NASA. I also think it's too high of a risk -- I believe it was Space-X that had their catastrophe and ended up having to pay/work for double the amount because of said catastrophe. I think it will be inreasingly difficult as more catastrophes happen (NASA had its share) to get funding from private sources.

quote:

While I agree with the doubters about the practicality of manned missions, we can't overlook the fantastic successes of the robotic exploration of Mars, Titan, Pluto and many other places in the solar system. Robots are the future of space exploration. I think any reasonable person would deduce that upon an examination of the results.



A lot of people think that this technology is either: A Impossible (which is myopic and ignorant) or B so far off as to not worry about it. Of course, people who actively follow robotics and even AI can see that we are in the very beginning of a massive stage of development for both. We're on the launchpad of a major announcement for the future of humanity -- and I'd even go so far as to wager that we'll see it in the next few years.

quote:

Only a natural castrophe offers any promise of slowing humanity's blind growth and subsequent plunder of earth's resources. An exotic virus or bacterium, the eruption of a super volcano, or maybe a gamma ray burst are about the only calamities that could effectively reduce the population now. Of course, ultimately starvation will do the job, but by then the earth will be a resource desert.



I was trying to avoid making religion the focal point but if you're to look at the statistics it cannot be denied that the religious outlook on children is a glaring factor in the reason we have such high levels of overpopulation.

Interestingly enough, the birthrates have been falling for quite some time, and while I consider MTV to be ''white noise'' in this day and age: Their show Sixteen and Pregnant has been directly linked to a lower birth-rate.

Unfortunately, Islam and some sects of Christianity are still stuck in the ''farmer'' type of mentality for children (i.e., the more hands available to tend to your land, the better off you are). The stupid will surely produce the smart, but with the internet it's become more and more difficult to brainwash children.

quote:

I think history has taught us that socialism will only work with a small, homogeneous and intelligent population. The Nordic countries of Europe are a good example of my point.

Capitalism works best in a society that allows a de facto pyramid caste system with high achievers in smaller numbers at the top and a very large number of consumers at the lower levels.


I didn't want to make this into what is better -- I was trying to say that this is an important fusion of two different ideologies who can work together. Both are lofty, dewy-eyed love letters to people who don't really have a long-term view of the world. Capitalism necessitates that we destroy the world, Socialism necessitates that we destroy our sense of self.

Neither are working and I think the only way that they function is by mixing and melding. The due respect to all law-abiding people regardless of their outlook/physical/geographical characteristics with the understanding that competition, strife and conflict are all machines that produce results.

If we can find a balance to this, we will all drastically improve the human condition. (Some Notes: I am not advocating in any way, shape or form for an Egalitarian government. Nor am I suggesting that physical violence is a worthy prescription as our future in AI, Gaming and Simulation will make it unnecessary.)

quote:

First he would have to understand that government is not a reality TV show where he alone calls the shots. Compromise seems to be anathema to the man. He lacks a basic understanding of how our government works. I think the Republican Senate is showing him that he wasn't elected to be their King.



The military, too, is showing him that. He is at best a good stop-gap for us to tell Washington to stop dicking around with truly abysmal candidates. If you're from the outside looking in and watching two reptiles debate -- who cannot abstain from lying for even a minute, you understand that the American people were essentially left with no choice.

However, we need a real capitalist to sell space -- because for your everyman (and I don't mean this as an insult) it doesn't seem like a healthy investment. What do I care if in 5 generations we could start terraforming? I won't believe to see it!

I think if we're to educate, it should encompass the princple that ''I will try my hardest to leave the Earth in a better place than when I was born, even if it only means that I myself am a good person'', which sounds ironically optimistic (dewy-eyed is the phrase I used) but really, we need some mentality that will get people to understand that this planet, here and now, is all we have -- along with the people inhabiting it. We should start behaving with that axiom in mind.
Posted by MaroonNation
StarkVegas, Mississippi, Bitch!
Member since Nov 2010
21950 posts
Posted on 12/17/17 at 12:45 pm to
quote:

idea that a centrifuge can generate "artificial gravity" in space has always bothered me. I contend that a centrifuge can only work properly when operating under the influence of gravity. A simple thought experiment illustrates my point.



When two things are weightless in space they tend to be attracted to one another. The coffee experiment aboard the shuttle that finally showed a light on how planets are formed would also apply to a astronaut in space, beyond the gravitational pull of earth. It’s like eating a bowl of rice crispies. As the bowl empties and the individual pieces of cereal can move freely about the top layer of milk, they tend to clump together.
Posted by Arksulli
Fayetteville
Member since Aug 2014
25170 posts
Posted on 12/17/17 at 12:58 pm to
quote:

I think if we're to educate, it should encompass the princple that ''I will try my hardest to leave the Earth in a better place than when I was born, even if it only means that I myself am a good person'', which sounds ironically optimistic (dewy-eyed is the phrase I used) but really, we need some mentality that will get people to understand that this planet, here and now, is all we have -- along with the people inhabiting it. We should start behaving with that axiom in mind.


Hear. Hear. Truer words were never spoken.
Posted by Kentucker
Cincinnati, KY
Member since Apr 2013
19351 posts
Posted on 12/17/17 at 1:55 pm to
quote:

When two things are weightless in space they tend to be attracted to one another. The coffee experiment aboard the shuttle that finally showed a light on how planets are formed would also apply to a astronaut in space, beyond the gravitational pull of earth. It’s like eating a bowl of rice crispies. As the bowl empties and the individual pieces of cereal can move freely about the top layer of milk, they tend to clump together.


Yes, anything with mass generates gravity. Perhaps I should have said,"...under the influence of a massive gravity such as that of a moon or planet."

There is just no way that the mass of a spaceship could effect enough gravity for a centrifuge to work. Why this fallacy is so accepted amongst journalists and the lay population baffles me. Perhaps it's a Star Trek effect.
Posted by MaroonNation
StarkVegas, Mississippi, Bitch!
Member since Nov 2010
21950 posts
Posted on 12/17/17 at 9:20 pm to
Then what made the individual planets form basically from all the dust left over from the Big Bang? If it was totally dependent on gravity all the dust would have just accumulated to form one huge planet orbiting the sun.

ETA: I understand the point you are making. The only way to truly test it would be to place a centrifuge in deep space, I forget the point in space it’s called, but basically the region of our universe where if something is in orbit and gets into this area then it can break the bounds of whatever it is orbiting. Then place a person in the centrifuge and see what happens.
This post was edited on 12/17/17 at 9:27 pm
Posted by Kentucker
Cincinnati, KY
Member since Apr 2013
19351 posts
Posted on 12/17/17 at 10:04 pm to
quote:

If it was totally dependent on gravity all the dust would have just accumulated to form one huge planet orbiting the sun.


Our sun and planets formed from an accretion disk of cloud of dust and gas that was driven to a gravitational point of collapse by a nearby supernova some 4.6 billion years ago. Within the disk, the sun formed at the center and its resulting gravity pulled in all but about 1% of everything that was in the original disk.

The disk was spinning as it accreted, this giving rise to a spinning sun and the orbits of the planets that grew by accumulating matter in the leftovers from the sun's formation.
Those leftovers were mainly rock nearest the new sun and mostly gas beyond what we see now as the asteroid between rocky Mars and gaseous Jupiter.

This arrangement of heavier dust particles near the sun and light gas particles farther away was caused by the sun's huge gravitational influence. Nothing else. It's basic gravitational physics.

In the beginning (pun intended), there were hundrds of small planetisimals orbiting inside the asteroid belt and, no doubt, very many gas planetisimals outside that boundary. The gravities of the planetisimals and their close orbits caused them to collide again and again until the present 8-planet system settled out.

Some interesting factoids:

*Towards the end of the planetisimal collisions, the proto-earth and a Mars-sized planetoid called Theia collided resulting in a blowoff of material from the outer mantle of the proto-earth. That material subsequently accreted into the moon we see today. It's thought that the collision also caused the proto-earth to tilt 23° on its axis, giving us the seasons we enjoy.

*Uranus used to be the outer most planet. The combined gravities of Jupiter and Saturn played havoc in the early solar system with the positions of the gas planets beyond their orbits from the sun. When Jupiter and Saturn we near each other in their orbits, their combined gravities caused Neptune to move past Uranus. Both planets were swung further out but Neptune, being closer to the giant pair, got the biggest swing.

The gravitational models that were used to demonstrate this planetary dance also indicates that a big 9th planet could have been swung right out to the edges of the solar system. Astronomers are trying to find it.

*There may have been a 10th giant planet that the sun ate. Because of the presence of lithium in the outer atmosphere of the sun, it's likely that a giant planet bigger than Jupiter was pulled into our star. Lithium would have been located on the outer regions of the accretion disk when it formed. As the gas planets formed, they swept up the lithium. One of them was probably so big that it quickly met its end by merging with the sun.
Posted by Kentucker
Cincinnati, KY
Member since Apr 2013
19351 posts
Posted on 12/17/17 at 10:18 pm to
quote:

. The only way to truly test it would be to place a centrifuge in deep space, I forget the point in space it’s called, but basically the region of our universe where if something is in orbit and gets into this area then it can break the bounds of whatever it is orbiting. Then place a person in the centrifuge and see what happens.


They're called Lagrange points where the effects of gravity between two bodies are negated by each other.

I don't think it would be necessary to put a centrifuge in one of those points. We know from experience that anything we put into orbit around earth is weightless. Weightlessness is maintained in orbit because they're "falling" around the planet and it's only because of their speed that they don't come down and hit the ground. It's the same effect that the "vomit comet" produces for training astronauts, or a falling elevator.

NASA had planned to perform just the experiment you mentioned, except in orbit around earth, but congressional budget cuts forced its cancellation. Regrettable.
Posted by StrawsDrawnAtRandom
Member since Sep 2013
21146 posts
Posted on 12/18/17 at 9:21 pm to
quote:

NASA had planned to perform just the experiment you mentioned, except in orbit around earth, but congressional budget cuts forced its cancellation. Regrettable.


It could have been fiscal conservatism or that they just didn't think it would work. It would cause the craft to be very heavy for a number of structural reasons and the propulsion necessary would be difficult to conjure in a trip that would probably be very difficult.

Would be better just doing something with magnets than trying to make a ship like that.
Posted by jcaz
Laffy
Member since Aug 2014
15520 posts
Posted on 12/18/17 at 10:13 pm to
Those parabola flying planes aren't cheap tho.
Hollywood gotta break out the fiction to save $$$
Posted by Commander Data
Baton Rouge, La
Member since Dec 2016
7289 posts
Posted on 12/19/17 at 2:13 am to
quote:

Because of the presence of lithium in the outer atmosphere of the sun, it's likely that a giant planet bigger than Jupiter was pulled into our star.


This is the first I have heard about this. Interesting. Are you saying that the planet evolved to that size because it pulled in lithium from the sun?
Posted by Kentucker
Cincinnati, KY
Member since Apr 2013
19351 posts
Posted on 12/19/17 at 11:01 am to
quote:

It could have been fiscal conservatism or that they just didn't think it would work. It would cause the craft to be very heavy for a number of structural reasons and the propulsion necessary would be difficult to conjure in a trip that would probably be very difficult.


It was going to be a big ship. Really big. The Naitilus-X Extended Duration Explorer was to be, in my opinion, NASA's first true spaceship. I think it was intended to be a ferry to the moon and perhaps Mars. Of course, NASA's budget would have to be several times the meager $20 billion it now gets for that to happen.

Posted by Kentucker
Cincinnati, KY
Member since Apr 2013
19351 posts
Posted on 12/19/17 at 11:07 am to
quote:

Those parabola flying planes aren't cheap tho. Hollywood gotta break out the fiction to save $$$


LINK

They're not cheap but the knowledge and experience they provide is priceless. I hope NASA is getting lots of money from Hollywood when the planes are being used for movies,


quote:

The KC-135A is part of a family of military planes descended from the Boeing 707 four-engine jet aircraft. The KC-135A began life as a tanker. This will be the last of the KC-135As to be used in the Reduced Gravity Program. It is to be replaced by a Navy C-9, a twin-jet variant of the McDonnell Douglas DC-9.


This post was edited on 12/19/17 at 11:10 am
Posted by Kentucker
Cincinnati, KY
Member since Apr 2013
19351 posts
Posted on 12/19/17 at 11:24 am to
quote:

This is the first I have heard about this. Interesting. Are you saying that the planet evolved to that size because it pulled in lithium from the sun?


No, just the reverse. The sun got the lithium from the planet it ate.

When the solar system was just beginning, gravity pulled most of the matter in the disk towards its center and a giant sphere formed. The gravity was so intense that it caused nuclear fusion to begin within the sphere. The sun was born.

The force of the solar wind was so strong that it blew the lighter matter in the remaining disk that wasn't pulled to the center, including lithium, into the outer reaches of the disk, leaving the heavier rocky matter orbiting closer to the sun. The gas giants formed from the lighter matter and the earth, Mercury, Venus and Mars accreted from the rocky remains of the disk.

It seems likely that one of the gas giants was so big, and its orbit so unstable that it moved inwards, eventually being absorbed by the sun. Its contents were spread over the surface of the sun and that's why we see lithium in the sun's spectrum today. That's the theory, at least.
Posted by jcaz
Laffy
Member since Aug 2014
15520 posts
Posted on 12/19/17 at 5:17 pm to
I believe it took days to film Apollo 13 in one of those jets. I believe several of the actors got sick many times from vertigo.
Posted by Arksulli
Fayetteville
Member since Aug 2014
25170 posts
Posted on 12/19/17 at 6:06 pm to
quote:

It was going to be a big ship. Really big. The Naitilus-X Extended Duration Explorer was to be, in my opinion, NASA's first true spaceship. I think it was intended to be a ferry to the moon and perhaps Mars. Of course, NASA's budget would have to be several times the meager $20 billion it now gets for that to happen.


I know we disagree on the centrifugal force in space thing... but what I would give to see that ship. The design of off the shelf technology. The solution to screening out cosmic radiation. We will leave out the potential solution to microgravity's hazards.

Imagine that design matched with an Ion Thruster drive. Granted, we need to develop that system of propulsion further before it could really see its prime... but the potential of a livable spacecraft with a low power drive.

Not just hello Mars and Moon, but hello the asteroid belt. Maybe even hello the outer planets.
Posted by Kentucker
Cincinnati, KY
Member since Apr 2013
19351 posts
Posted on 12/19/17 at 8:49 pm to
quote:

I believe it took days to film Apollo 13 in one of those jets. I believe several of the actors got sick many times from vertigo.


I would absolutely love to go on one of those flights. I'm sure I'd get sick but I wouldn't care.
Posted by Kentucker
Cincinnati, KY
Member since Apr 2013
19351 posts
Posted on 12/19/17 at 8:57 pm to
quote:

I know we disagree on the centrifugal force in space thing... but what I would give to see that ship.


It may be practical as a ferry to the moon and maybe to Mars but we'll have to increase its speed dramatically to use it as transportation to the outer solar system. The perils of longterm weightlessness are just too numerous and debilitating for even the healthiest of astronauts.

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