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Posted on 6/23/13 at 1:31 pm to UMRealist
Thanks, I would have googled it, but Ben Franklin has a lot of quotes
Posted on 6/23/13 at 1:31 pm to TbirdSpur2010
dammit semo
Posted on 6/23/13 at 1:32 pm to semotruman
quote:I sincerely doubt it. Moat of the framers would be appalled at what our government does today.
I keep thinking of Benjamin Franklin. "Those who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Wonder if his opinions would have changed given the dangerous times we live in.
Posted on 6/23/13 at 1:34 pm to semotruman
Dont think Ben Franklin would have changed his mind. I also don't think we had given up any freedoms if the "watching" is done strictly for investigation of terror.
Posted on 6/23/13 at 1:34 pm to UMRealist
quote:
dammit semo
She's the queen bee of tSECRant--don't let her pleasantries fool you!
She be ruthless
Posted on 6/23/13 at 1:34 pm to 3xlsugrad
quote:
framers would be appalled at what our government does today
Agree. There were British sympathizers and spies among Colonists back in the day, and violence against those opposing England. The Framers understood that liberty and freedom has a price. Unfortunately, today, too many are too soft and unwilling to make any sacrifices because it may interfere with their next Honey Boo Boo or Teen Mom episode.
Posted on 6/23/13 at 1:35 pm to Alahunter
we have devolved as a country in many aspects
Posted on 6/23/13 at 1:38 pm to Alahunter
George Washington saw it all coming from day one. Warned us and nobody listened.
Posted on 6/23/13 at 1:39 pm to TbirdSpur2010
quote:
quote:
dammit semo
She's the queen bee of tSECRant--don't let her pleasantries fool you!
She be ruthless
Hey, now!! I'm only ruthless to the complete idiots and jackasses that occasionally run amok here. Haven't seen any of them in this thread. Yet.
And I agree - the framers would likely be appalled and disgusted by many things our government does. But...I also think they'd be completely amazed by how big the country now is, now global society now is, and now technology has changed things.
Posted on 6/23/13 at 1:39 pm to UMRealist
quote:we have certainly both evolved and devolved since our constitution was penned.
we have devolved as a country in many aspects
Posted on 6/23/13 at 1:40 pm to 3xlsugrad
agreed
Posted on 6/23/13 at 1:40 pm to semotruman
quote:
Hey, now!! I'm only ruthless to the complete idiots and jackasses that occasionally run amok here. Haven't seen any of them in this thread. Yet.
They'll be along presently, as you well know
Just messin', of course
Posted on 6/23/13 at 1:41 pm to semotruman
quote:Absolutely. I did not mean to portray an anti-government slant in my comments, merely that the framers would not have envisioned our current nation as the one they founded.
But...I also think they'd be completely amazed by how big the country now is, now global society now is, and now technology has changed things.
Posted on 6/23/13 at 1:42 pm to 3xlsugrad
quote:
we have certainly both evolved and devolved since our constitution was penned.
Definitely. And I don't think we have many people in power these days that are as noble and idealistic as the framers. Unfortunately. I have very little respect for politicians.
Posted on 6/23/13 at 1:44 pm to semotruman
Only time will tell which he will be remembered as.
If our country is aggressively terrorized or even attacked by a foreign power, and it is leaked that it all was able to transpire because of lousy intelligence, he will go down as a traitor to his country.
On the other hand, if, say, Hillary comes to power and brings about 1984 shite, he will definitely be remembered as a patriot.
If the status quo stays at it is, I'm guessing he'll go down as a traitor. As long as people have their coffee, jobs, and Twitter, zero fricks are given about the security/privacy debate.
If our country is aggressively terrorized or even attacked by a foreign power, and it is leaked that it all was able to transpire because of lousy intelligence, he will go down as a traitor to his country.
On the other hand, if, say, Hillary comes to power and brings about 1984 shite, he will definitely be remembered as a patriot.
If the status quo stays at it is, I'm guessing he'll go down as a traitor. As long as people have their coffee, jobs, and Twitter, zero fricks are given about the security/privacy debate.
Posted on 6/23/13 at 1:44 pm to 3xlsugrad
quote:
the framers would not have envisioned our current nation as the one they founded.
No, they wouldn't recognize it at all.
And TBird - yes, they'll probably come along soon. And I'll have to take charge.
Posted on 6/23/13 at 1:47 pm to semotruman
I disagree, I don't think all the framers were that much different than many of the people in power in terms of ideals and "nobility".
Posted on 6/23/13 at 1:47 pm to 3xlsugrad
quote:
I did not mean to portray an anti-government slant in my comments
"Too late."
--Dept. Homeland Security
Posted on 6/23/13 at 1:48 pm to PrivatePublic
quote:
If our country is aggressively terrorized or even attacked by a foreign power, and it is leaked that it all was able to transpire because of lousy intelligence, he will go down as a traitor to his country
This country is already terrorized by outside persons. One could argue, that our own Gov't acts in a terrorist way at times. It's the cost of freedom. And more violations of Constitutional Rights won't prevent something from happening down the road at some point. Perhaps the media will portray him as the scapegoat, but being global, policies that allow anyone in and politically correct blindness, ignoring profiling, will be the cause of a terrorist attack or foreign attack, before what he did.
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