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re: America Is Not For Black People
Posted on 8/14/14 at 10:34 am to The Spleen
Posted on 8/14/14 at 10:34 am to The Spleen
quote:
Obviously it's an apples to oranges comparison. But the justification of the heavily militarized police presence because a dozen or so idiots decided to loot some stores is the point. These people are angry over what they perceive to be an unjust killing at the hands of a police officer, and are being vilified for it by some right-leaning outlets. The same right-leaning outlets that celebrated the Bundy situation, a situation over a guy not wanting to pay fees for use of federal land.
Just imagine the reaction if there was a picture of a black Ferguson resident on the roof of his house with a high-powered rifle aimed at the police, just like the image of one of the Bundy activists with a high-powered rifle aimed at federal agents. Do you think it would get similar reaction from the Breitbarts of the world? Hell no it wouldn't.
You're not wrong, but it is also worth noting that during the Bundy incident, many left leaning outlets that are now supporting the protestors and leading their stories with photos of police in riot gear were calling Bundy a thief and leading with pictures of armed protesters.
Both sides pander to their base, simple as that. Doesn't make either of them right and doesn't help sanity prevail.
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Posted on 8/14/14 at 10:35 am to JustGetItRight
when everyone is out just to prove the other side wrong, nobody end up being right.
Posted on 8/14/14 at 11:15 am to The Spleen
quote:
I hate to say it's because it's impacting a predominantly black community, but I can't think of any other reason.
Don't hate to speak the truth.
White teenagers aren't shot in the back while fleeing the police. White neighborhoods aren't fired upon by militarized police. The wholesale disregard of the civil rights of white people isn't brushed aside because some white people committed crimes.
Posted on 8/14/14 at 11:15 am to Rebelgator
quote:
If this were in Russia, there would be a body count today.
And you're okay with that?
This is America. If we're as exceptional a nation as we like to think we are, then this kind of shite shouldn't ever be justified.
Posted on 8/14/14 at 11:18 am to DCRebel
Posted on 8/14/14 at 11:22 am to DCRebel
quote:
This is America. If we're as exceptional a nation as we like to think we are, then this kind of shite shouldn't ever be justified.
Exactly. Looting and rioting shouldn't ever be justified.
quote:
And you're okay with that?
I'm not not okay with it. How would you feel if your business was destroyed and robbed?
This post was edited on 8/14/14 at 11:24 am
Posted on 8/14/14 at 11:28 am to CheeseburgerEddie
quote:
when everyone is out just to prove the other side wrong, nobody end up being right.
Bingo. You just described the United States Congress.
Posted on 8/14/14 at 11:28 am to the808bass
quote:
This isn't just a race issue. It's a policing issue.
I agree. Can it not be both?
Posted on 8/14/14 at 11:29 am to Rebelgator
quote:
Exactly. Looting and rioting shouldn't ever be justified.
Who is justifying rioting and looting?
ETA: You realize there can be a gray area here, no? I feel like this discussion is devolving into any discussion involving Gaza, where one side is 100% pro-Israel and the other side is 100% anti-Israel, and neither side leaves room for a middle ground.
I am in NO WAY saying that looting is okay. You won't find me close to even suggesting as much. I am, however, not comfortable with a militarized police response that is wholly disproportionate and unnecessary, particularly one that attacks and arrests members of the fricking media for doing their jobs.
You're goddamn right this isn't Russia, but it's getting close. "Land of the free" my arse.
This post was edited on 8/14/14 at 11:31 am
Posted on 8/14/14 at 11:31 am to DCRebel
The people vilifying officers for using riot control during a fricking riot. The people showing pictures of riot police next to pictures of Birmingham in the 60s.
bullshite.
quote:
police response that is wholly disproportionate and unnecessary
bullshite.
This post was edited on 8/14/14 at 11:34 am
Posted on 8/14/14 at 11:37 am to Pavoloco83
quote:
You just described the United States Congress.
Ya I know, and nearly every other issue in our country. I think they learn from congress though.
Posted on 8/14/14 at 11:38 am to Rebelgator
quote:
The people vilifying officers for using riot control during a fricking riot.
This is riot control:
This is not:
And what happened last night WAS NOT A RIOT. I watched live footage of it for about half an hour, and I saw a crowd that was far from rioting.
Also, riots aren't exactly a new thing. The militarization of police forces is, however. So much of this is the result of post 9/11 funding for counter terrorism stuff that's gone overboard. You can't pretend that civil unrest and the means to combat were plucked out of thin air in 2001. Yet, police forces that look more and more like military units is a new thing, and a very scary thing if you ask me.
quote:
bullshite
Tell me why flak jackets, assault rifles, and armored vehicles were needed. Were the protestors an organized militia? Did they have powerful weapons of their own? What made the response "proportionate" and "necessary," in your eyes?
This post was edited on 8/14/14 at 11:40 am
Posted on 8/14/14 at 11:42 am to DCRebel
quote:
Yet, police forces that look more and more like military units is a new thing, and a very scary thing if you ask me.
been happening since the early 90's. Criminals are better armed every day, and a police officer has the right to be better than the criminals they may go up against.
Posted on 8/14/14 at 11:46 am to DCRebel
quote:
I agree. Can it not be both?
I agree. It can be both. If black america wants white america to care about the police issue, they'll find a way to point out both issues.
Posted on 8/14/14 at 11:48 am to CheeseburgerEddie
quote:
been happening since the early 90's. Criminals are better armed every day, and a police officer has the right to be better than the criminals they may go up against.
Are common criminals that much better armed? What do they have that police don't?
And this militarization of police really stepped up after 9/11 as a counter terrorism measure, as if suburban police departments are going to battle fricking Al Qaeda in their backyards. It's ludicrous and out of control.
The military is supposed to combat enemies of the state. The police are supposed to enforce laws and maintain order. Both should be held to high standards of restraint and accountability as to preserve civil liberty. Why this is something that some of y'all find controversial I'll never understand.
Posted on 8/14/14 at 11:50 am to the808bass
quote:
If black america wants white america to care about the police issue, they'll find a way to point out both issues.
White America (a term which I cringe at almost as much as I do "Black America," because ethnic groups aren't monoliths) will start to care about the police issue once it effects them as much as it effects black people.
But, since it doesn't, we're going to keep seeing this happen.
Posted on 8/14/14 at 11:51 am to DCRebel
They are better armed compared to themselves 20, 10, 5... years ago. They have high powered rifles, illegal automatic weapons, they can get their hands on explosives, you really don't know what they have until they draw them.
The police do and should have the weapons to combat what they may face with minimal risk to their own lives. They don't get paid shite so why should we expect them to do what they have to do without the best possible tools.
The police do and should have the weapons to combat what they may face with minimal risk to their own lives. They don't get paid shite so why should we expect them to do what they have to do without the best possible tools.
This post was edited on 8/14/14 at 11:52 am
Posted on 8/14/14 at 11:54 am to DCRebel
quote:
Tell me why flak jackets, assault rifles, and armored vehicles were needed. Were the protestors an organized militia? Did they have powerful weapons of their own? What made the response "proportionate" and "necessary," in your eyes?
If you have it then utilize it. 90% of the time I carry a .380 kel tec and very small vest. However, when I hit a warrant you better believe I put on every piece of gear I own and the .380 is replaced with a much larger gun. Will I need it, probably not. However, it's there and it serves a purpose.
The same goes for riot control. Sometimes a large vehicle and some guys dressed in full tac gear is what it takes to scare a crowd into order. Sometimes it takes tear gas, which sucks by the way. Sometimes non lethal projectiles. Bring it all, but use what the situation deems necessary. Riot control is a different animal than regular police work and overwhelming force is absolutely a normal technique. Plus, regular riot gear is extremely restrictive in movement so tac gear might be more appropriate.
Posted on 8/14/14 at 11:56 am to DCRebel
quote:
And this militarization of police really stepped up after 9/11 as a counter terrorism measure, as if suburban police departments are going to battle fricking Al Qaeda in their backyards. It's ludicrous and out of control.
That's directly traceable to the use it or lose it Homeland Security grant.
Posted on 8/14/14 at 11:58 am to CheeseburgerEddie
quote:
They are better armed compared to themselves 20, 10, 5... years ago. They have high powered rifles, illegal automatic weapons, they can get their hands on explosives, you really don't know what they have until they draw them.
I don't buy it.
Criminals have had high powered rifles, illegal automatic weapons, explosives, etc., for decades. Do you have any evidence that today is somehow worse than before?
quote:
The police do and should have the weapons to combat what they may face with minimal risk to their own lives.
I agree. The thing is, that doesn't accurately describe last night.
quote:
They don't get paid shite so why should we expect them to do what they have to do without the best possible tools.
I agree but that's a whole separate issue. I wish we would pay cops more because then I think you'd have more educated people signing up to be cops.
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