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re: Am I the only one pulling for the Night King?
Posted on 4/29/19 at 5:47 pm to KSGamecock
Posted on 4/29/19 at 5:47 pm to KSGamecock
Star Wars is a good series to compare it to, because it, too, has a very powerful Mary Sue.
Now before you guys come at me with this, let me explain: I understand she has training, I understand she went off and joined the most powerful guild of assassins ever and learned how to take people's faces at a young age, and before that she was training with one of the best swordsman ever at a young age (hopefully you see where I'm going with this), but:
She fights with a sword as good or better than most expert fencers.
She shoots a bow just as good if not better than a bowman with the Iron Fleet.
She throws a dagger just as good if not better than most expert assassins.
She fights with a spear just as good if not better than an Unsullied.
She is a literal expert in every weapon, can disguise herself as any person and at no point is there a character smarter/more charismatic than her in any given scene.
Smart, strong, an expert in everything, slayer of the Night King because it's a "bad arse moment", even when she does 'fail' it's only to show off how much of a bad arse she is.
Sloppy, lazy script writing.
The battle tactics were absolutely horrendous, everyone knows that light cavalry is used for flanking because they possess superior movement. Any nerd with a dirty sock and a copy of Total War (any edition) knows this.
Then of course, you have dragons, and instead of using them to scout your opponents and even get a good strafe or two, you send your cavalry into the pitch black night. Years of buildup for the Dothraki to die in a few minutes because of rudimentary, fundamentally poor decision making is painful to watch.
I liked the episode because there's nothing that comes close, but it feels like the writers have completely run out of juice -- and instead of hiring people who are experts in medieval tactics and warfare, they've decided that "bad arse moments" supersede this.
When Jon Snow nearly died at the Battle of the Bastards, and they were surrounded and forced to trample each other to death -- that's interesting and horrifying. Watching some of the best tacticians in Martin's world completely fumble one of the easiest defensive strategies the world has ever known is just depressing.
No attempted bottlenecks, no fortification indoors to at least make it more difficult, no hot oil over the battlements and parapets, trench is like 10 feet wide against an army of incredible size, no heavy cavalry????, no arbalests, a lot less fire than necessary on and on and on. They had a long time to prepare for this fight and it's like they were just napping until the actual time to fight.
I've only seen the show and I was thoroughly disappointed. Years of building up this bad arse dude who literally threw a spear and killed a goddamn dragon gets stealthed while having his entire Goth Metal Praetorian Guard around him.
It was Jon Snow's battle, and a character completely unrelated to the arc comes in and "just so's" the most terrifying enemy their world has ever known. So sad.
Melt
ON [OFF]
Now before you guys come at me with this, let me explain: I understand she has training, I understand she went off and joined the most powerful guild of assassins ever and learned how to take people's faces at a young age, and before that she was training with one of the best swordsman ever at a young age (hopefully you see where I'm going with this), but:
She fights with a sword as good or better than most expert fencers.
She shoots a bow just as good if not better than a bowman with the Iron Fleet.
She throws a dagger just as good if not better than most expert assassins.
She fights with a spear just as good if not better than an Unsullied.
She is a literal expert in every weapon, can disguise herself as any person and at no point is there a character smarter/more charismatic than her in any given scene.
Smart, strong, an expert in everything, slayer of the Night King because it's a "bad arse moment", even when she does 'fail' it's only to show off how much of a bad arse she is.
Sloppy, lazy script writing.
The battle tactics were absolutely horrendous, everyone knows that light cavalry is used for flanking because they possess superior movement. Any nerd with a dirty sock and a copy of Total War (any edition) knows this.
Then of course, you have dragons, and instead of using them to scout your opponents and even get a good strafe or two, you send your cavalry into the pitch black night. Years of buildup for the Dothraki to die in a few minutes because of rudimentary, fundamentally poor decision making is painful to watch.
I liked the episode because there's nothing that comes close, but it feels like the writers have completely run out of juice -- and instead of hiring people who are experts in medieval tactics and warfare, they've decided that "bad arse moments" supersede this.
When Jon Snow nearly died at the Battle of the Bastards, and they were surrounded and forced to trample each other to death -- that's interesting and horrifying. Watching some of the best tacticians in Martin's world completely fumble one of the easiest defensive strategies the world has ever known is just depressing.
No attempted bottlenecks, no fortification indoors to at least make it more difficult, no hot oil over the battlements and parapets, trench is like 10 feet wide against an army of incredible size, no heavy cavalry????, no arbalests, a lot less fire than necessary on and on and on. They had a long time to prepare for this fight and it's like they were just napping until the actual time to fight.
quote:
No worries. I still think if I'd only watched the show it'd still have been bad.
I've only seen the show and I was thoroughly disappointed. Years of building up this bad arse dude who literally threw a spear and killed a goddamn dragon gets stealthed while having his entire Goth Metal Praetorian Guard around him.
It was Jon Snow's battle, and a character completely unrelated to the arc comes in and "just so's" the most terrifying enemy their world has ever known. So sad.
Melt
ON [OFF]
4
Posted on 4/29/19 at 6:09 pm to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
If you try to post this on the MTV board, they’ll try to justify every criticism you made. A lot of them, even though they won’t admit it, want no harsh criticism of the show at all.
Posted on 4/29/19 at 6:12 pm to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
quote:
The battle tactics were absolutely horrendous, everyone knows that light cavalry is used for flanking because they possess superior movement. Any nerd with a dirty sock and a copy of Total War (any edition) knows this.
Posted on 4/29/19 at 6:17 pm to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
My dude 
Saw the mary sue fight on twitter earlier and sort of agreed with the mob that Arya wasn't one but when you actually stack everything up she kind of is, not Rey's ridiculous level, but there's something there.
Wasn't expecting anything great because it's TV but it was still pretty bad. Even if we don't want to play Armchair general there are still problems. Compared to the amount of thought Tyrion, or Jon, or Jorah, or Sansa put in to previous battles this one was laughable. Really, really bad. Almost as bad as Stannis' attack on Winterfell. Books, if they ever come out, will do them better justice.
You could say they bit off more than they could chew but the blame is really on GRRM. They started with either the agreement or a strong assumption that TWOW would come out years ago and George would be farther along with ADOS, at least a solid outline they could work off of, only having to flesh out dialogue. GRRM wiffed on that badly to work on side projects nobody asked for and you can see the drop-off in quality when they moved on from the books. It's not fair to slam D&D for being shitty writers when even GRRM can't finish it. They're average TV guys and they're giving us average TV. Meh.
Yep. It should be disappointing even for show-only folks. All those seasons of Jon's character building, his budding rivalry with the NK, even Bran and the NK interacting in the WeirWood net, thrown out because D&D wanted to do something "unexpected". It's a middle finger to everybody and really gimmicky and lazy.
A larger issue is the pacing of the series in a broad view. We spend entire seasons with relatively little happening compared to Seasons 7 & 8. The Battle of the Blackwater comes after 8 episodes of build-up. The Battle beneath the Wall is 2 1/2 seasons in the making and the Battle of the Bastards is like two. The last two seasons just move blisteringly fast compared to the previous ones and while it's enjoyable in a way, I guess, it leaves something to be desired. It has none of the slow building anticipation that came from the political drama and machinations of the earlier seasons so everything seems less satisfying as a result.
quote:
Now before you guys come at me with this, let me explain: I understand she has training, I understand she went off and joined the most powerful guild of assassins ever and learned how to take people's faces at a young age, and before that she was training with one of the best swordsman ever at a young age (hopefully you see where I'm going with this), but:
She fights with a sword as good or better than most expert fencers.
She shoots a bow just as good if not better than a bowman with the Iron Fleet.
She throws a dagger just as good if not better than most expert assassins.
She fights with a spear just as good if not better than an Unsullied.
She is a literal expert in every weapon, can disguise herself as any person and at no point is there a character smarter/more charismatic than her in any given scene.
Saw the mary sue fight on twitter earlier and sort of agreed with the mob that Arya wasn't one but when you actually stack everything up she kind of is, not Rey's ridiculous level, but there's something there.
quote:
The battle tactics were absolutely horrendous, everyone knows that light cavalry is used for flanking because they possess superior movement. Any nerd with a dirty sock and a copy of Total War (any edition) knows this.
Wasn't expecting anything great because it's TV but it was still pretty bad. Even if we don't want to play Armchair general there are still problems. Compared to the amount of thought Tyrion, or Jon, or Jorah, or Sansa put in to previous battles this one was laughable. Really, really bad. Almost as bad as Stannis' attack on Winterfell. Books, if they ever come out, will do them better justice.
quote:
I liked the episode because there's nothing that comes close, but it feels like the writers have completely run out of juice -- and instead of hiring people who are experts in medieval tactics and warfare, they've decided that "bad arse moments" supersede this.
You could say they bit off more than they could chew but the blame is really on GRRM. They started with either the agreement or a strong assumption that TWOW would come out years ago and George would be farther along with ADOS, at least a solid outline they could work off of, only having to flesh out dialogue. GRRM wiffed on that badly to work on side projects nobody asked for and you can see the drop-off in quality when they moved on from the books. It's not fair to slam D&D for being shitty writers when even GRRM can't finish it. They're average TV guys and they're giving us average TV. Meh.
quote:
I've only seen the show and I was thoroughly disappointed. Years of building up this bad arse dude who literally threw a spear and killed a goddamn dragon gets stealthed while having his entire Goth Metal Praetorian Guard around him.
It was Jon Snow's battle, and a character completely unrelated to the arc comes in and "just so's" the most terrifying enemy their world has ever known. So sad.
Yep. It should be disappointing even for show-only folks. All those seasons of Jon's character building, his budding rivalry with the NK, even Bran and the NK interacting in the WeirWood net, thrown out because D&D wanted to do something "unexpected". It's a middle finger to everybody and really gimmicky and lazy.
A larger issue is the pacing of the series in a broad view. We spend entire seasons with relatively little happening compared to Seasons 7 & 8. The Battle of the Blackwater comes after 8 episodes of build-up. The Battle beneath the Wall is 2 1/2 seasons in the making and the Battle of the Bastards is like two. The last two seasons just move blisteringly fast compared to the previous ones and while it's enjoyable in a way, I guess, it leaves something to be desired. It has none of the slow building anticipation that came from the political drama and machinations of the earlier seasons so everything seems less satisfying as a result.
Posted on 4/29/19 at 6:23 pm to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
Maybe they had a plan and it went to shite. What’s that Mike Tyson quote “everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth”
That was super insightful tho, not joking
That was super insightful tho, not joking
Posted on 4/29/19 at 6:26 pm to BoozeDawg
quote:
Maybe they had a plan and it went to shite.
You know what they didn't have? Practice flying those dragons.
The Dothraki grow up on horses. The Unusllied are drilled intensively from early childhood. Danny and Jon have the Westeros equivalent of Nukes they can ride and they fly on them what...twice?
They should have been out there practicing diving runs and evasive maneuvers so they don't spend 75% of a battle uselessly lost in some clouds.
Posted on 4/29/19 at 6:32 pm to KSGamecock
I was wondering half the battle where the dragons were. Jon flies out of the blizzard and just sits on his dragon on the wall of winterfell.
They did not use them affectively.
And the unsullieds' phalanx getting chewed up like that was bad. I don't care if its the army of the dead fighting them. The shield wall should be able to handle the charge instead of getting ripped apart. Its the part of the battle that irritated me more than anything. Elite fighters with a superior formation getting torn apart like theyre a bunch of peasants with clubs.
They did not use them affectively.
And the unsullieds' phalanx getting chewed up like that was bad. I don't care if its the army of the dead fighting them. The shield wall should be able to handle the charge instead of getting ripped apart. Its the part of the battle that irritated me more than anything. Elite fighters with a superior formation getting torn apart like theyre a bunch of peasants with clubs.
Posted on 4/29/19 at 6:36 pm to thatguy45
quote:
The shield wall should be able to handle the charge instead of getting ripped apart. Its the part of the battle that irritated me more than anything. Elite fighters with a superior formation getting torn apart like theyre a bunch of peasants with clubs.
Yea, when has that ever happened?
Posted on 4/29/19 at 6:36 pm to thatguy45
quote:
I was wondering half the battle where the dragons were. Jon flies out of the blizzard and just sits on his dragon on the wall of winterfell.
They did not use them affectively.
And the unsullieds' phalanx getting chewed up like that was bad. I don't care if its the army of the dead fighting them. The shield wall should be able to handle the charge instead of getting ripped apart. Its the part of the battle that irritated me more than anything. Elite fighters with a superior formation getting torn apart like theyre a bunch of peasants with clubs.
Its not like it was a group of regular dudes running at them. It was pretty much a giant wave of dead people moving full clip.
I mean i see everyones point haha....but we are talking about dragons and dead people hahah. guess i didnt look to deep into it
Posted on 4/29/19 at 6:39 pm to BoozeDawg
they said No one can kill the Night King and no one did kill the night king
Posted on 4/29/19 at 6:42 pm to KSGamecock
Unsullied, based on their descriptions from the books and gray worm on the show, are closer to Lacedaemons than roman legionaries.
Yes I am going to argue muh 300 here. Yeah there were more than 300 that held the pass. Regardless they did it against a much larger force. And they only lost after the people guarding the side pass ran as well as some of the main force, leaving the remaining people open to attack.
Compare this to what we witness. No one is flanking the phalanx. Theyre charging straight at it. Even the Bolton shield wall in BOB is nigh impenetrable from the front. Is only after they are flanked that they die. But no one flanked the unsullied. They just got torn to bits. Surely you can agree it was dumb
Yes I am going to argue muh 300 here. Yeah there were more than 300 that held the pass. Regardless they did it against a much larger force. And they only lost after the people guarding the side pass ran as well as some of the main force, leaving the remaining people open to attack.
Compare this to what we witness. No one is flanking the phalanx. Theyre charging straight at it. Even the Bolton shield wall in BOB is nigh impenetrable from the front. Is only after they are flanked that they die. But no one flanked the unsullied. They just got torn to bits. Surely you can agree it was dumb
Posted on 4/29/19 at 6:51 pm to BoozeDawg
Posted on 4/29/19 at 6:56 pm to thatguy45
I mean, I get what you’re saying but at the same time I kind of agree with Booze in that we’re talking about a massive hord of zombies here. Not TWD zombies. 28 days later type zombies.
Posted on 4/29/19 at 7:00 pm to KSGamecock
quote:
I mean, I get what you’re saying but at the same time I kind of agree with Booze in that we’re talking about a massive hord of zombies here. Not TWD zombies. 28 days later type zombies.
and these frickers are swinging weapons.
Also these zombies are incredibly coordinated. Did you see how fast they were moving in a pack......NOT 1 STUMBLED OR FELL OVER EACH OTHER!
Posted on 4/29/19 at 7:05 pm to KSGamecock
quote:
Not TWD zombies. 28 days later type zombies.
Im still waiting on 28 months later or whatever theyre gonna call it. I seem to remember one of the people who made 28 days later saying he wasn't gonna do anymore zombie films until after TWD ended, as he felt it ripped off of 28 days later via having rick wake up in the hospital and wondering around.
Posted on 4/29/19 at 7:06 pm to BoozeDawg
quote:
Did you see how fast they were moving in a pack......NOT 1 STUMBLED OR FELL OVER EACH OTHER!
Theyre also kinda like the zombies from wwz, with them climbin on top of each other to get over the walls.
Posted on 4/29/19 at 7:10 pm to thatguy45
THATS what it was. Was trying to remember what it looked like. OK yeah them over taking a shield wall doesn't sound that nuts to me.
Posted on 4/29/19 at 7:15 pm to thatguy45
We not gonna talk about the Phantom Menace trope they used with everybody shutting down when the NK died? Lazy!
Posted on 4/29/19 at 7:20 pm to KSGamecock
quote:
We not gonna talk about the Phantom Menace trope they used with everybody shutting down when the NK died? Lazy!
Youre ignoring the knife drop move from far cry 3 as well.
LINK
Posted on 4/29/19 at 7:40 pm to thatguy45
So they stole everything huh
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