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re: 2022 Recruiting and beyond. (Updated: 20/JUN/2021)
Posted on 12/22/19 at 9:49 am to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
Posted on 12/22/19 at 9:49 am to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
We agreed that recruiting isn’t perfect
I didn’t even bring up all that other random shite lol you did.
To respond to that other stuff injuries in all sports are huge. That doesn’t mean recruiting isn’t any less important. Just like luck, preparation, coaching etc.
I didn’t even bring up all that other random shite lol you did.
To respond to that other stuff injuries in all sports are huge. That doesn’t mean recruiting isn’t any less important. Just like luck, preparation, coaching etc.
This post was edited on 12/22/19 at 9:51 am
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Posted on 12/22/19 at 1:28 pm to slayerxing
I hate recruiting season. Everyone basing their mood on a random site rating players off hearsay
We got better in the trenches and added better depth. We improved as a team.
Fk a site, we all know Wingo and Dex are gonna be terrors on D and we added some monsters on the OL
We got better in the trenches and added better depth. We improved as a team.
Fk a site, we all know Wingo and Dex are gonna be terrors on D and we added some monsters on the OL
Posted on 12/22/19 at 2:45 pm to slayerxing
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We agreed that recruiting isn’t perfect
Very few things are perfect, so two reasonable people will agree.
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I didn’t even bring up all that other random shite lol you did.
You brought up Wunderlich and I explained how recruiting sites operated.
You mentioned Georgia, or paraphrased Wunderlich mentioning Georgia and I showed you that even with their depth, missing one player (Cager) completely fricked them over.
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That doesn’t mean recruiting isn’t any less important.
This is always the false equivalency that people use to argue with someone that says recruiting isn't everything. "Oh so you're saying it doesn't matter.", it does.
It just doesn't necessitate a .92 recruiting rating to win a National Championship or recruiting top 5. It's important, but people put increasingly more stock in recruiting and every year that passes we see that it's not nearly as important as an elite DL and an elite QB.
Developing those two positions seem much better than recruiting top 5.
Then I gave you evidence: Four out of four teams in the Playoff right now have a QB in the top 5 of Total QBR. It's only random if you're not paying attention. :)
Posted on 12/22/19 at 6:09 pm to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
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You brought up Wunderlich and I explained how recruiting sites operated.
You mentioned Georgia, or paraphrased Wunderlich mentioning Georgia and I showed you that even with their depth, missing one player (Cager) completely fricked them over.
Wunderlich was trying to put to words why people have this perception that recruiting isn't so great. It's a perception that comes from our rivals primary success. They lose two highly rated players and the PERCEPTION is that it isn't a blip on the radar.
The impact that Cager did or did not have on their season is debatable. It isn't an absolute fact. The fact that he missed two games that Georgia also lost is not sufficient evidence to induce that Georgia lost only because of Cager not playing. They had 5 turnovers against South Carolina and got drubbed by the best team in the country (LSU).
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Then I gave you evidence: Four out of four teams in the Playoff right now have a QB in the top 5 of Total QBR. It's only random if you're not paying attention. :)
Shocking. Hurts was a 4 star, .92, Burrow was a 4 star .90, and Fields and Lawrence were both 5 star. Coincidence?
Also, each of those teams recruited amazingly well on the LOS. So that does give credence to your argument that some positions are more important than others. UF seems to have done OK at QB with Jones and Richardson. They did a good job on DL this year as well. But up until this point, they had done shite all recruiting DL, especially compared to Clemson, Ohio State, LSU, Georgia, and Alabama, the traditional teams in the play off hunt. OL I think is a different story, because so much of that is about development, but the play on the OL is something that does separate UF from these other teams. QB, not so much, but OL play, for fricking SURE.
So based on this discussion, it doesn't look like recruiting has been good enough up to this point to win a title. But hey, this year was a great step in the right direction, and I think these coaches are better at other things other than recruiting.
Posted on 12/22/19 at 10:39 pm to slayerxing
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Wunderlich was trying to put to words why people have this perception that recruiting isn't so great. It's a perception that comes from our rivals primary success. They lose two highly rated players and the PERCEPTION is that it isn't a blip on the radar.
Yes, and those sites directly prey on perceptions they know to be negative to drive up internet traffic and incite differences of opinions.
See: Now.
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The impact that Cager did or did not have on their season is debatable. It isn't an absolute fact.
Uhhh their offense was significantly better when Cager was playing, and he is 100% the reason their offense fell off of a cliff when he wasn't playing.
Despite having played only 8 games he was only ~50 yards away from their top receiver (who played for 11 games). Despite the three game difference, he also had 33 catches to 37. In fact, when he was healthy for Florida he caught more passes against us than any other receiver.
He was absolutely pivotal to their offense's success.
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Shocking. Hurts was a 4 star, .92, Burrow was a 4 star .90, and Fields and Lawrence were both 5 star. Coincidence?
Herp derp.
Emory Jones? 4-star.
Anthony Richardson? 4-star.
Carlos del Rio? 4-star.
Again, I literally just said recruiting is important, it's just not the absolute most important. QB Development is what will win us a championship, period. Not having a top 5 Team Talent Composite.
This post was edited on 12/22/19 at 10:43 pm
Posted on 12/22/19 at 11:40 pm to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
You do not have the evidence to prove that Cager was the only thing that mattered in those losses. Period. You just do not. Cager was responsible for 5 turnovers against USCe? LOL yeah right.
And I get what you mean about Wunderlich, I just don't think you are being 100% honest with yourself as to why it is working. His comments strike a soft spot in the fanbase because many are aware that UF is being outrecruited by 3-4 teams in the SEC in any given year, most importantly Georgia, who is now on a 3 game winning streak in the series.
Last year, UF was 2-2 against teams that had out-recruited them in the last 4 years: wins against AU and FSU, and losses to LSU and UGA. They were 8-0 against everyone else.
And if QB play is the thing that really matters UF would be in the playoffs over UGA because UF's QB had a better season. The problem is that isn't the whole truth. You have to have a great QB, but also you have to win the LOS. UF was glaringly deficient there in both losses.
Not to mention being shredded in the secondary, where UF has had some pretty big misses in recruiting in recent years, especially at safety, which has been consistently mediocre recently - This shouldn't come as a shock, since UF is playing 4 guys regularly at safety that would have been on the bench in previous UF secondaries - if you want to split hairs and attribute this to coaching, I guess we can, but just looking at the 247 scores for the current vs former players you can see the talent in the secondary is not what UF is used to.
It's a team game. You need a good QB, but you need good players everywhere else too. UF had some misses the past few years in recruiting and those misses came home to roost in the form of bad OL play and inconsistent secondary play in 2019.
You know what's funny? I remember when you said there was nothing wrong with Shark fricker too. It's ok to admit that there are no absolutes. That there are shades of gray. Mullen can be a GOOD coach while simultaneously struggling to recruit at a level equal to some of the big boys in the SEC. The two things aren't mutually exclusive.
And I get what you mean about Wunderlich, I just don't think you are being 100% honest with yourself as to why it is working. His comments strike a soft spot in the fanbase because many are aware that UF is being outrecruited by 3-4 teams in the SEC in any given year, most importantly Georgia, who is now on a 3 game winning streak in the series.
Last year, UF was 2-2 against teams that had out-recruited them in the last 4 years: wins against AU and FSU, and losses to LSU and UGA. They were 8-0 against everyone else.
And if QB play is the thing that really matters UF would be in the playoffs over UGA because UF's QB had a better season. The problem is that isn't the whole truth. You have to have a great QB, but also you have to win the LOS. UF was glaringly deficient there in both losses.
Not to mention being shredded in the secondary, where UF has had some pretty big misses in recruiting in recent years, especially at safety, which has been consistently mediocre recently - This shouldn't come as a shock, since UF is playing 4 guys regularly at safety that would have been on the bench in previous UF secondaries - if you want to split hairs and attribute this to coaching, I guess we can, but just looking at the 247 scores for the current vs former players you can see the talent in the secondary is not what UF is used to.
It's a team game. You need a good QB, but you need good players everywhere else too. UF had some misses the past few years in recruiting and those misses came home to roost in the form of bad OL play and inconsistent secondary play in 2019.
You know what's funny? I remember when you said there was nothing wrong with Shark fricker too. It's ok to admit that there are no absolutes. That there are shades of gray. Mullen can be a GOOD coach while simultaneously struggling to recruit at a level equal to some of the big boys in the SEC. The two things aren't mutually exclusive.
Posted on 12/23/19 at 2:19 am to slayerxing
Man, how much more straw do you need for that dragon you're trying to slay?
I can point to tons of posts by Georgia fans themselves about Cager, and obviously you didn't watch any of their games to see the impact he has on the offense. I'll take their word of yours, I'm sorry to say.
We're not going to outrecruit those teams, just to keep it close -- which we've been. As I said, we have virtually the same average player as many of the National Championship teams right now, but we're working with an inherited roster.
Oof, first to unpack this: I said it was most important, not the only thing that matters. Again, you have a very difficult time understanding that priority does not mean totality. Similarly, Trask is not a fit for the offensive scheme nor was he really thought of taking the team over and doing so well.
But again, it's not the only thing that matters, it is something that matters.
I admitted I was wrong about McElwain, but I was also completely correct about Trask and a litany of other things -- it doesn't mean anything regarding the conversation right now.
I also said Georgia wasn't going to amount to anything and that recruiting wasn't the end all be all.
Oops, I was right -- Georgia and Alabama, both of which outrecruit us have the same amount of losses that we do this year.
I look forward to Florida being able to retool its offense and shut the people bitching and moaning about recruiting right on up next year.
I can point to tons of posts by Georgia fans themselves about Cager, and obviously you didn't watch any of their games to see the impact he has on the offense. I'll take their word of yours, I'm sorry to say.
We're not going to outrecruit those teams, just to keep it close -- which we've been. As I said, we have virtually the same average player as many of the National Championship teams right now, but we're working with an inherited roster.
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And if QB play is the thing that really matters UF would be in the playoffs over UGA because UF's QB had a better season. The problem is that isn't the whole truth. You have to have a great QB, but also you have to win the LOS. UF was glaringly deficient there in both losses.
Oof, first to unpack this: I said it was most important, not the only thing that matters. Again, you have a very difficult time understanding that priority does not mean totality. Similarly, Trask is not a fit for the offensive scheme nor was he really thought of taking the team over and doing so well.
But again, it's not the only thing that matters, it is something that matters.
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It's a team game. You need a good QB, but you need good players everywhere else too. UF had some misses the past few years in recruiting and those misses came home to roost in the form of bad OL play and inconsistent secondary play in 2019.
You know what's funny? I remember when you said there was nothing wrong with Shark fricker too. It's ok to admit that there are no absolutes. That there are shades of gray. Mullen can be a GOOD coach while simultaneously struggling to recruit at a level equal to some of the big boys in the SEC. The two things aren't mutually exclusive.
I admitted I was wrong about McElwain, but I was also completely correct about Trask and a litany of other things -- it doesn't mean anything regarding the conversation right now.
I also said Georgia wasn't going to amount to anything and that recruiting wasn't the end all be all.
Oops, I was right -- Georgia and Alabama, both of which outrecruit us have the same amount of losses that we do this year.
I look forward to Florida being able to retool its offense and shut the people bitching and moaning about recruiting right on up next year.
Posted on 12/23/19 at 5:33 am to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
good discussion. I think you’re over simplifying the cager-Georgia thing but I can’t disprove his importance anymore than you can prove it.
Uf is not out recruiting their rivals. That we agree on. Hopefully if they continue to keep it close Mullen can beat them with superior game day coaching and development.
Uf is not out recruiting their rivals. That we agree on. Hopefully if they continue to keep it close Mullen can beat them with superior game day coaching and development.
Posted on 12/23/19 at 7:55 am to slayerxing
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good discussion. I think you’re over simplifying the cager-Georgia thing but I can’t disprove his importance anymore than you can prove it.
Uf is not out recruiting their rivals. That we agree on. Hopefully if they continue to keep it close Mullen can beat them with superior game day coaching and development.
UF is out recruiting our rivals except for UGA. FSU, Miami, and Tennessee don't have the classes we have had.
Mullen will need on the field results before UF starts to out recruit UGA. Mullen has to start beating UGA to do so.
This post was edited on 12/23/19 at 12:15 pm
Posted on 12/23/19 at 10:59 am to BloodSweat&Beers
Sorry I meant the major contenders in conference not actual rivals. Uf is smoking ut FSU and Miami
Posted on 12/23/19 at 1:53 pm to slayerxing
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good discussion. I think you’re over simplifying the cager-Georgia thing but I can’t disprove his importance anymore than you can prove it.
I mean the results speak for themselves.
The most significant injury in the Bulldogs’ 20-17 overtime loss to South Carolina came to receiver Lawrence Cager.
Cager, a grad-transfer from Miami, has become the most irreplaceable player not named Jake Fromm on the roster.
Cager had come up big in the first half with three catches to convert on third down plays.
You remind me of the rival fans who said Zuniga and Greenard didn't matter if they played or not.
I mean you are just fundamentally wrong, even Georgia fans understood and broke it down as well as Georgia writers.
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Uf is not out recruiting their rivals.
Winning changes everything, and we've been sold by stupid podcasts that it doesn't
. Miami and FSU are on a slide and we shouldn't expect to outrecruit teams going to the SEC CG and the Playoffs, period. So Mullen will need to continue to up the Blue Chip ratio and then beat those teams on the field.
Posted on 12/23/19 at 2:04 pm to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
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So Mullen will need to continue to up the Blue Chip ratio and then beat those teams on the field.
That blue chip ratio thing you keep posting about is bull shite. Low end 4*s are not as good as 5 *s typically.
Equating good recruiting to one metric does not tell the whole story.
Posted on 12/23/19 at 2:34 pm to BloodSweat&Beers
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That blue chip ratio thing you keep posting about is bull shite.
It 100% helps. The metrics regarding Blue Chips are undeniable regarding the likelihood of 1. Being drafted and 2. Being All-SEC or All American.
It's not 100%, but having a field full of blue chips and a coach who can develop them is pretty much the blueprint for success.
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Equating good recruiting to one metric does not tell the whole story.
Did I have a stroke?
Where did I say that that was the only thing Mullen needed to do?
It's the only thing I mentioned in that post. Talent is necessary, Blue Chip talent is definitely a measurement for success, I just don't think we necessarily need to be top 5 or have a .92 average player to win a National Championship.
Posted on 12/23/19 at 3:04 pm to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
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It 100% helps. The metrics regarding Blue Chips are undeniable regarding the likelihood of 1. Being drafted and 2. Being All-SEC or All American.
It's not 100%, but having a field full of blue chips and a coach who can develop them is pretty much the blueprint for success.
The use of the blue chip ratio thing is stupid IMO.
A team full of 5*s is better than a team of 4*s.
The "blue star" ratio thing has Dexter being equal to Goods. They are both 4*s right now but they are completely different in what they have done in HS and project out to be. That is not a slight on Goods but just an example.
Comparing a top 50 player vs a top 350 player as equals is stupid. Top 50 players are way more likely to do all of those things vs top 350 players.
Posted on 12/23/19 at 4:51 pm to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
The cager thing is an opinion. He did not cause uga kicker to miss two fg or uga to fail a fourth and short or to lose 4 turnovers or to give up a long td pass.
People love to talk about how one key player is the difference in a game. It is not always the case. Having greenard and Zuniga would had helped against LSU but it doesn’t stop uf from blowing coverages that cost them games against uga and LSU.
It’s a team game Except for super stars. Cager is not a super star.
People love to talk about how one key player is the difference in a game. It is not always the case. Having greenard and Zuniga would had helped against LSU but it doesn’t stop uf from blowing coverages that cost them games against uga and LSU.
It’s a team game Except for super stars. Cager is not a super star.
This post was edited on 12/23/19 at 4:56 pm
Posted on 12/23/19 at 5:41 pm to slayerxing
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The cager thing is an opinion.
That is held by experts, fans of the team and by most people who understand that Cager is fundamentally the best player on their offense.
For instance, this year: Our offense would have been dogshit if Franks started every game and we know this. We know that he can't pass like Trask, and our offense 100% relies on a passing attack since the rushing offense is so lackluster.
Cager opens up Georgia's offense because he's the star player who can actually open up matchup problems, which causes their entire offense to stall when he's not in.
That way opposing defenses can stack the box and just wait for Fromm to make a mistake, because they know those receivers don't get separation.
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It’s a team game Except for super stars. Cager is not a super star.
He doesn't need to be in order for their offense to be shut down. Even having an elite player at WR changed the entire way their offense worked.
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Having greenard and Zuniga would had helped against LSU but it doesn’t stop uf from blowing coverages that cost them games against uga and LSU.
It could have drastically changed how we schemed defensively if we didn't have to blitz to get pressure.
Again, you are just fundamentally wrong. Top to bottom, Cager completely changes the offensive for Georgia and despite having oodles of big time backups still struggled to replace him.
Posted on 12/23/19 at 5:45 pm to BloodSweat&Beers
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The use of the blue chip ratio thing is stupid IMO.
Statistically it pays to have a high blue chip ratio. I don't think recruiting is the entire part of college football but it's silly to discount it.
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A team full of 5*s is better than a team of 4*s.
Tell Georgia this so they can beat South Carolina.
It can be better, but development is key and it is easier to develop 4 and 5-stars than it is 3-stars.
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The "blue star" ratio thing has Dexter being equal to Goods. They are both 4*s right now but they are completely different in what they have done in HS and project out to be. That is not a slight on Goods but just an example.
No doubt, but having more of those players is key in every metric available regarding winning championships and having elite teams. All four teams playing in the Playoff have a Blue Chip ratio higher than 50%.
All four teams last year had the same.
All four teams the year befo-- you know, every single team that's played in the Playoff has had a BC % higher than 50%.
Period.
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Comparing a top 50 player vs a top 350 player as equals is stupid.
There's actually very little difference between those players, and I don't think the numbers show much of a jump from 50 to 350. Having a .2 difference means very little (Clemson had an average player of .89 when they beat Alabama's .94 team into the ground) in the grand scheme of things.
Posted on 12/23/19 at 8:29 pm to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
The guy had 33 receptions, for 476 yards, and 4 TD...
Posted on 12/23/19 at 8:48 pm to slayerxing
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The guy had 33 receptions, for 476 yards, and 4 TD...
Trevon Grimes had 32 receptions for 484 yards and 3 touchdowns and is still a risk to go to the NFL.
If this is the hill you want to die on, by all means -- but anyone who has watched Georgia football at any length understands just how lethal Cager is.
I mean, he only had 7 catches for 132 yards and two touchdowns against us when he was finally healthy. He was injured and reinjured several times, but he is a very good receiver.
Posted on 12/23/19 at 9:38 pm to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
No there is a huge difference.
It is an exponential curve on All Americans and draft picks per individual.
If you don't understand that there is a difference between the top 50 players and top 350 players then I don't know what to tell you.
I could devolve into personal insults but that would not be productive. It is just Straws being Straws
It is an exponential curve on All Americans and draft picks per individual.
If you don't understand that there is a difference between the top 50 players and top 350 players then I don't know what to tell you.
I could devolve into personal insults but that would not be productive. It is just Straws being Straws
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