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montanagator
Florida Fan
Member since Jun 2015
16957 posts

re: **2017 Football Recruiting Thread**
quote:

Mac's recruiting is good enough as is to win a championship.


No, no its not- look at Clemson's talent relative to their schedule- they play 1-3 teams more talented than they are every year... next year we'll play 6 teams with more talent on paper than we do before Atlanta or the playoffs.

Even really good coaches struggle to go much more than 50% in games where they're the underdog, Mac is no exception (and may actually be worse than that his record at UF against teams with better talent or a higher rank is abysmal).


dbuchanon
Florida Fan
Member since Nov 2014
6219 posts

re: **2017 Football Recruiting Thread**
Good thing the paper doesnt play the games



slayerxing
Florida Fan
Gainesville
Member since Feb 2010
8767 posts

re: **2017 Football Recruiting Thread**
Best players on Clemson's team this past year based on production:

These are all top 300 players:

Cordera Tankersly - 4* CB - 2012 - #20 corner
Carlos Watkins - 4* DT - 2012 - #8 DT
Ben Boulware - 4* ILB - 2013 - #8 ILB
Mike Williams - 4* WR - 2013 - #35 WR
Dorian O'daniel - 4* OLB - 2013 - #8 OLB
Wayne Gallman - 4* RB - 2013 - #23 RB
DeShaun Watson - 4* QB - 2014 - #1 QB
Van Smith - 4* ATH - 2014 - #21 ATH
Artavis Scott - 4* WR - 2014 - #8 WR
Deon Cain - 5* WR - 2015 - #3 WR
Christian Wilkins 4* DT - 2015 - #6 DT
Clelin Ferrel 4* WDE - 2015 - #7 DE
Dexter Lawrence 5* DT - 2016 - #2 DT

Outliers:
Hunter Renfrow - Walk on
Jordan Legget - 3* TE - 2013 - #17 TE
Jadar Johnson - 3* S - 2013 - #55 S
Kendall Joseph - 3* ILB - 2014 - #26 ILB

Clemson wasn't a good team full of plucky 3 stars. This was a star studded bunch that won on that field last night.

Don't make any mistakes about that.

Starting OL, just for giggles:
5* Mitch Hyatt - OT - #2 OT
4* Sean Pollard - OT - #28 OT
4* Tyrone Crowder - OG - #7 OG
3* Taylor Hearn - OG - #68 OT
3* Jay Guillermo - OC - #7 OC

Not exactly scrubs on paper there.


This post was edited on 1/10 at 3:58 pm


reel_gator8
Florida Fan
Seminole,Fl
Member since May 2012
8890 posts

re: **2017 Football Recruiting Thread**
quote:

slayerxing


You lost me at Artavis Scott...since is from Tampa Bay area and I know how widely he was recruited...which wasnt by many top shelf teams..there was some interest from UF but he had made up his mind on Clemson pretty early on. 8th best WR in the country??? Really?

The walk on WR is Renfrow and he is twice the WR that Scott is.

Watson numero uno QB? Where is Gods name are you finding this? Switch recruiting info site asap.


slayerxing
Florida Fan
Gainesville
Member since Feb 2010
8767 posts

re: **2017 Football Recruiting Thread**
Before Clemson: Rated as the No. 68 player and No. 10 wide receiver in the nation and No. 8 player in Florida by 247Sports.com ... No. 68 player and No. 11 wide receiver in the nation and No. 9 player in Florida by Rivals.com ... No. 83 player in the nation and No. 9 player in Florida by ESPN ... No. 102 player in the nation by Scout.com

Sorry, he was #10 in the composite, sorry I missed that.

Listen, Renfrow has had a nice career so far, but Artavis Scott is the all time leader in receptions in Clemson history. He has 226 receptions, 19 receiving TDs, 2480 receiving yards, and about 1000 return yards of various kinds. The kid was a player.

Renfrow in his two seasons, despite ridiculous success against Alabama, is nowhere near that.

He has 77 receptions in 2 years, for about 1000 yards total, and 10 TDs.


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slayerxing
Florida Fan
Gainesville
Member since Feb 2010
8767 posts

re: **2017 Football Recruiting Thread**
Deshaun watson was the #1 dual threat QB in the 247 composite in 2014, which is a composite ranking of the various recruiting sites.

Go fricking check it yourself if you don't believe me.


TJGator1215
Florida Fan
Member since Sep 2011
10949 posts
 Online 

re: **2017 Football Recruiting Thread**
No no gtfo here with all those stars and facts. NM that Clemson has a great coaching/recruiting staff. They loaded up on the DL and OL with great players and had top shelf talent not borderline high 3- low 4*s. Also Clemson's recruiting has always been top 3 in the ACC, Not middle of the pack like Mac's has.


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atlgator
Florida Fan
Jacksonville, Atlanta, Gainesville
Member since Aug 2014
3973 posts
 Online 

re: **2017 Football Recruiting Thread**
Agree with your premise which pretty much is my overall point: just because your overall class ranking isn't top 5 doesn't mean you aren't getting quality players. If I had the time, I would go and list all of the top contributors for us and their recruiting ranking would be very similar to the players for Clemson. The difference is having a quarterback, but also Dabo having time to mold his team and build his program. It's taken him 8 years to get to this point. Some people fail to realize that success isn't instantaneous. It takes time to mold and create and build a program and Dabo has done a nice job of that at Clemson and I think Mac is doing a nice job of that for us too. It just takes time to build a sustainable program. We're on the track to building that


dbuchanon
Florida Fan
Member since Nov 2014
6219 posts

re: **2017 Football Recruiting Thread**
Hes not far from removing the term "Clemsoning" from his teams w/l record

Yes it takes time to build a foundation.

Funny how TJ and some others on here bitch about recruiting but are on their knees on ither threads begging for Chip to cone here

Who hates to recruit



atlgator
Florida Fan
Jacksonville, Atlanta, Gainesville
Member since Aug 2014
3973 posts
 Online 

re: **2017 Football Recruiting Thread**
It's not even as much about wanting a guy like Chip Kelly- I understand that because of his demonstrated success.

It's the bitching and negativity when it is unwarranted. I am willing to say when something is bad, but I also am willing to acknowledge the good that I see in regards to the program. They can't do this. They choose to create their own narrative, try to push it down everybody else's throat, then ignore you or call you a sunshine pumper when you challenge their narrative with logic and reasoning. They complain about recruiting rankings, but fail to acknowledge that the players in the class are playing well on the field. They complain that Mac isn't recruiting like Muschamp, but Muschamp went 4-8 and left zero quality offensive players for Mac. The only warranted complaint is getting blown out by FSU and Alabama. And even though losing is never "okay", it's understandable when you're practically playing offense with all 17, 18, and 19 year olds while other programs have guys that are 20-23 years old


StrawsDrawnAtRandom
Florida Fan
Mexico City, Mexico.
Member since Sep 2013
12990 posts

re: **2017 Football Recruiting Thread**
quote:

even though losing is never "okay", it's understandable


Nothing more than that -- and even for those who are calling for being more competitive you just can't do it when 4 out of the 5 things on your offense that are responsible for scoring aren't there or were completely neglected.

Literally every offensive position could have been graded out as ''C'' Average or less. We had one upperclassman playing on the offensive line the entire year, last year we didn't even have a kicker, quarterback or offensive line.

But the big time players on offense and defense happen to be younger, and happen to look outstanding, and if you can't see that, you're trying not to look.

I have never seen a fanbase so utterly frustrated with a blowout bowl win against a team that beat a great team like Michigan.


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slayerxing
Florida Fan
Gainesville
Member since Feb 2010
8767 posts

re: **2017 Football Recruiting Thread**
I am confident UF will finish with a fine class. I just don't want people starting to spout off about how Clemson was some lowly team of 2 and 3 star talent.

Clemson's first team offense and defense may be one of the most talented units, on the field AND on paper, in the entire country.

I keep seeing people saying, hey look, Dabo has never had a top 5 class and he won it all. Well, hey, that's true, but let's not let the narrative say he didn't recruit well.

The other thing he did, something a lot of guys, like Muschamp failed to do, is that Dabo recruited strong on both offense AND defense. Both units were overflowing with talent, on paper, and on the field.

I think if you asked any of the overly negative guys on here why they have jumped ship, it's because of the uneven recruiting on defense in the first two classes, and the lack of a QB on the roster, to date, that can complete passes against air, and some warning signs of the same thing happening without a strong close this year on defense.

That being said, I bet UF has a strong close, I just wanted to put this all in perspective.


dbuchanon
Florida Fan
Member since Nov 2014
6219 posts

re: **2017 Football Recruiting Thread**
I dont think anyone said they were a team of 2-3 star talent. What we were saying is they built a solid team despite not having top 10 classes every yr. Which again stresses that its the needs you fill, not some number given on a scale by some recruiting site

Like right now, we are looking strong to land some good OL,DL and DB additions, big areas of need.


reel_gator8
Florida Fan
Seminole,Fl
Member since May 2012
8890 posts

re: **2017 Football Recruiting Thread**
Easier to build a program in the Almost Competitive Conference than in the SEC? I would think so.

And, Renfrow hasnt played at Clemson as long as Scott and was a walk on. But I stand corrected about SWcott...he was higher rated in high school than I thought. I have a friend who coaches high school in the Tampa Bay area and he gives me evaluations of what he has seen on the field.
I think Carter is going to be a great player for us in the future.

I just looked up recruiting over the years for shits and giggles..here are some nuggets:

Daniel McMillian was ranked 44th in the country overall by Max Preps

Heres two to remind people that recruiting is an unexact science: overall in the country by 247 is # 51 Altee Tenpenny, who went to Bama originally and # 87 Cooper Batemen also Bama..throw in # 37 Brice Ramsey the UGA signee or how about our own # 63 Marcell Harris who took 3 yrs but is now producing or # 158 Fulwood who has never quite made it.

Could go on and on about 5 stars like Gerald Willis and Bryon Cowart...stars blind people and Id rather have a coaching staff who will develop those they recruit and make them 5 star players on the field.

BTW Clemson was rated 13th in the country just recently by 247 in recruiting...but Im sure they will finish higher.


montanagator
Florida Fan
Member since Jun 2015
16957 posts

re: **2017 Football Recruiting Thread**
quote:

and left zero quality offensive players for Mac.


Kelvin Taylor, McGee and Demarcus Robinson- hell that might be a better trio than Scarlett, Callaway and Goolsby.


montanagator
Florida Fan
Member since Jun 2015
16957 posts

re: **2017 Football Recruiting Thread**
Calvin Ashley just cancelled his UF visit and recommitted to the Barn


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atlgator
Florida Fan
Jacksonville, Atlanta, Gainesville
Member since Aug 2014
3973 posts
 Online 

re: **2017 Football Recruiting Thread**
quote:

Kelvin Taylor, McGee and Demarcus Robinson- hell that might be a better trio than Scarlett, Callaway and Goolsby.


Demarcus Robinson is not better than Callaway. Kelvin Taylor was good but not what we thought he would be (due to not having an offensive line thanks to Muschamp), and Jake McGee was solid, but even he was brought in as a transfer and not someone that Muschamp was able to identify out of high school and develop into a good player.

Can people please stop defending Muschamp on this board? The guy led us to 4-8, loss to Georgia Southern, absolutely gutted our brand, and neglected the offensive side of the ball. It says a lot that you could only name 3 good offensive players that Muschamp left and they were all gone after last year. The guy had worse on the field results than Ron Zook, and people around here praise him because he had good class rankings dammit! How quickly can we forget man


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slayerxing
Florida Fan
Gainesville
Member since Feb 2010
8767 posts

re: **2017 Football Recruiting Thread**
Really, what Clemson did well, IMO, is identify good, talented players, and then also developed them.

They did not have nearly as many as 4 and 5 star busts as UF had over the same time frame.

Pretty much every highly rated guy that went to Clemson panned out.



StrawsDrawnAtRandom
Florida Fan
Mexico City, Mexico.
Member since Sep 2013
12990 posts

re: **2017 Football Recruiting Thread**
quote:

Really, what Clemson did well, IMO, is identify good, talented players, and then also developed them.

They did not have nearly as many as 4 and 5 star busts as UF had over the same time frame.

Pretty much every highly rated guy that went to Clemson panned out.





Our three stars have panned out well, and that's the most important piece. Developing players rather than neglecting them.


TJGator1215
Florida Fan
Member since Sep 2011
10949 posts
 Online 

re: **2017 Football Recruiting Thread**
Chip Kelly would have to recruit regardless of where he went. That's a huge difference than wanting to recruit and being bad at it like Mac is. Whether it's in hiring staff or getting elite talent.


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