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re: Does anyone actually believe this

Posted on 7/6/14 at 5:49 pm to
Posted by StrawsDrawnAtRandom
Member since Sep 2013
21146 posts
Posted on 7/6/14 at 5:49 pm to
quote:

So, you are the source of truth?


I've given my sources several times. I'll give them in more detail.

Geza Vermes has performed a detailed analysis of the Testimonium and modified it to remove what he considers the interpolations.

Géza Vermes or Vermès (Hungarian: ['ge?z? 'v?rm??], 22 June 1924 – 8 May 2013) was a British scholar of Jewish Hungarian origin—one who also served as a Catholic priest in his youth—and writer on religious history, particularly Jewish and Christian. He was a noted authority on the Dead Sea Scrolls and ancient works in Aramaic such as the Targums, and on the life and religion of Jesus. He was one of the most important voices in contemporary Jesus research.

James Dunn states that the works of Josephus include two separate references to Jesus and although there are some interpolations in the Testimonium, there is "broad consensus" among scholars regarding the nature of an authentic reference to Jesus in the Testimonium and what the passage would look like without the interpolations.

James D. G. "Jimmy" Dunn (born 1939) is a leading British New Testament scholar who was for many years the Lightfoot Professor of Divinity in the Department of Theology at the University of Durham, now Emeritus Lightfoot Professor. He has worked broadly within the Protestant tradition.

Blomberg adds that after the removal of these three elements (which are likely interpolations) from the Greek versions the remaining passage fits well with the Arabic version and supports the authenticity of the reference to the execution of Jesus by Pilate.

Craig L. Blomberg is a New Testament scholar. He is a Distinguished Professor of the New Testament at Denver Seminary in Colorado where he has been since 1986.

The general scholarly view is that while the Testimonium Flavianum is most likely not authentic in its entirety, it is broadly agreed upon that it originally consisted of an authentic nucleus, which was then subject to Christian interpolation or forgery

Kennneth A. Olson, Eusebius and the Testimonium Flavianum. The Catholic Biblical Quarterly 61 (2): 305, 1999

I really don't know what else I can give at this point.
Posted by Stacked
Member since Apr 2012
5675 posts
Posted on 7/6/14 at 5:54 pm to
quote:

Geza Vermes has performed a detailed analysis of the Testimonium and modified it to remove what he considers the interpolations.


quote:

James Dunn states that the works of Josephus include two separate references to Jesus and although there are some interpolations in the Testimonium, there is "broad consensus" among scholars regarding the nature of an authentic reference to Jesus in the Testimonium and what the passage would look like without the interpolations.


quote:

Blomberg adds that after the removal of these three elements (which are likely interpolations) from the Greek versions the remaining passage fits well with the Arabic version and supports the authenticity of the reference to the execution of Jesus by Pilate.


quote:

I really don't know what else I can give at this point.


I don't know what you're trying to give in the first place. Sounds like each of the quotes you've given agree that while interpolations may have occurred, the authenticity to the reference of Jesus remains authentic.
This post was edited on 7/6/14 at 6:03 pm
Posted by kywildcatfanone
Wildcat Country!
Member since Oct 2012
120000 posts
Posted on 7/6/14 at 7:36 pm to
I can appreciate your ability to google, but you seem to be completely discounting the teachings of the Bible and historical writers of Jesus day.

I guess that is your point, but I don't know what to say. I have no interest in debating Christianity with someone who refutes every teaching. I get it, your mind is closed to any line of thinking about the truth of Christianity. No need to argue.
This post was edited on 7/6/14 at 7:38 pm
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