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re: 15-16 AU Hoops Season Thread 11-20 (5-13) {we beat UK} Disaster over
Posted on 2/25/16 at 9:11 am to Smoke7024
Posted on 2/25/16 at 9:11 am to Smoke7024
quote:
It's something that would be useful for someone like Bryce that can't finish at all.
Or he could learn to finish.
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He can get by his defender and be able avoid having to go at the other team's big
Or he could learn to pass to the open big whose defender rotated off
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I'd rather him be able to do that than getting his layup attempt shoved back in his face.
I'd rather him be better at shooting the layup or passing to whoever is open than taking a low percentage shot
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Posted on 2/25/16 at 9:21 am to GenesChin
You're acting a damn ten foot jumper is some super difficult shot. He can learn to finish and he can also learn to hit a ten footer. Having someone that can hit the shot would also help loosen up a zone.
Posted on 2/25/16 at 9:22 am to GenesChin
quote:
You're acting a damn ten foot jumper is some super difficult shot. He can learn to finish and he can also learn to hit a ten footer.
A 12 ft pull up jumper off a drive? You do realize that it is an extremely low percentage shot right?
For reference here are the 5 NBA PGs with most unassisted midrange. It isn't a good shot to take and you can see by the FG% From this article
1. Chris Paul, 232 (51 percent)
2. Monta Ellis, 153 (42 percent)
3. John Wall, 140 (40 percent)
4. Russell Westbrook, 135 (39 percent)
5. Jarrett Jack, 130 (45 percent)
It is very hard to be good enough at the midrange shot to make it worth your while. Even if you shoot a ridiculous 45% from midrange, your expected points is 0.9 which is equivalent to a 30% 3PT. It is unlikely that your 45% is much higher than your layup FG% too despite the ridiculous work to get there
This post was edited on 2/25/16 at 9:24 am
Posted on 2/25/16 at 9:24 am to GenesChin
You're missing most of my point. I'm not saying take a ton of them a game, but be good enough at it to atleast make it a threat.
Posted on 2/25/16 at 9:24 am to Smoke7024
quote:
Having someone that can hit the shot would also help loosen up a zone.
Hitting 3s loosens up a zone. Passing loosens up a zone.
Both those gets you to a higher % shot/point value than shooting a midrange
Posted on 2/25/16 at 9:25 am to GenesChin
quote:This is the point in which most college coaches are putting their faith in. The stats clearly back up the move away from mid-range jumpers
It is very hard to be good enough at the midrange shot to make it worth your while. Even if you shoot a ridiculous 45% from midrange, your expected points is 0.9 which is equivalent to a 30% 3PT. It is unlikely that your 45% is much higher than your layup FG% too despite the ridiculous work to get there
Posted on 2/25/16 at 9:26 am to Smoke7024
quote:
You're missing most of my point. I'm not saying take a ton of them a game, but be good enough at it to atleast make it a threat.
What FG% would you say is "good enough" for a midrange? How many times do you have to shoot to make it a threat?
Very unlikely to be >40% on unassisted pullup midrange & to be a real threat to change D philosophy you'd need >4-5 shots. Seems like a good way to waste possessions
Posted on 2/25/16 at 9:28 am to Rig
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This is the point in which most college coaches are putting their faith in. The stats clearly back up the move away from mid-range jumpers
The exception to this is big men. Them shooting midrange jumpers I can understand as their physical movement to that position changes the defense.
Guards shooting midrange is meh
Posted on 2/25/16 at 9:31 am to GenesChin
GC, have you ever played basketball? That's about the dumbest thing I've read. Having a mid range game should be desirable for any position and any player. It keeps the defenders honest and it keeps them guessing.
This post was edited on 2/25/16 at 9:38 am
Posted on 2/25/16 at 9:33 am to GenesChin
I would say it depends on the player. Someone like Bryce that clearly can't finish would benefit from being able to hit that shot. I'd want him driving all day if he could finish or get to the line. Canty could've benefited from it also if he were still here. It's not as big a deal when we're moving the ball well. When we're stuck in these one on one situations late in the clock, I'd rather our guy have the ability to pull up rather than drive and get their layup stuck back in their face.
Posted on 2/25/16 at 9:37 am to jangalang
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That's about the dumbest thing I've read?
Funny because the vast majority of coaches in CBB and NBA follow this line of thinking.
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Having a mid range game should be desirable for any position and any player.
Of course, having a midrange > not having one. Doesn't change that statistics back up that shooting unassisted midrange shots is a horrible basketball decision.
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It keeps the defenders honest and it keeps them guessing.
What defenders? The assumption is you've beaten your man and there is no big in the world that will/should abandon his role as a rim defender to contest an already low % shot
This post was edited on 2/25/16 at 9:40 am
Posted on 2/25/16 at 9:39 am to Smoke7024
quote:
When we're stuck in these one on one situations late in the clock, I'd rather our guy have the ability to pull up
Late shock clock is the one situation where stats don't sh** on midrange jumpers. That said, it is typically assisted midrange jumpers that work well here as most teams leave that open.
I would love for our bigs to be great shooters from the elbow off the pass. I have no desire to see our guards drive and pull up ever.
Posted on 2/25/16 at 9:41 am to GenesChin
This has gotten off track to what my point was. All I was saying is that it'd be nice for Bryce to have the option of pulling up instead of getting his shite packed every time he takes it inside.
It'd also be nice for a big to be able to hit a ten footer to open things up inside for cutters.
It'd also be nice for a big to be able to hit a ten footer to open things up inside for cutters.
This post was edited on 2/25/16 at 9:42 am
Posted on 2/25/16 at 9:44 am to Smoke7024
quote:
All I was saying is that it'd be nice for Bryce to have the option of pulling up instead of getting his shite packed every time he takes it inside.
I guess. I just would rather him work on not getting his sh** packed in everytime he takes it inside
Posted on 2/25/16 at 9:45 am to GenesChin
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Funny because the vast majority of coaches in CBB and NBA follow this line of thinking.
Wrong. Some teams are gravitating toward that style of play. Not all of them. Some still run pick and roll offenses that require a mid range game.
quote:
What defenders? The assumption is you've beaten your man and there is no big in the world that will/should abandon his role as a rim defender to contest an already low % shot
Well then you're making the assumption the big will stay in his position and he won't be able to alter the shot of a 6'3 guard when the scorer shoots a layup.
An open mid range jumper is greater than anything forced.
This post was edited on 2/25/16 at 9:49 am
Posted on 2/25/16 at 9:47 am to GenesChin
quote:
I guess. I just would rather him work on not getting his sh** packed in everytime he takes it inside
Posted on 2/25/16 at 9:48 am to GenesChin
Well me too, but I've watched our guys try and force it inside and get it swatted so much this year.
Obviously, I'd rather them either make the layup or draw the foul, but we suck at that right now.
Obviously, I'd rather them either make the layup or draw the foul, but we suck at that right now.
Posted on 2/25/16 at 9:52 am to jangalang
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Most teams are gravitating toward that style of play. There still are some old fashioned teams.
FIFY
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Fewer than half as many shots are taken between 10 and 15 feet as are taken between 20 and 25 feet. What’s striking is that accuracy in the mid-range is less than it is for the closest three-point shots. -KenPom
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If my drastic bold lettering didn’t catch your attention, let me try again. According to the numbers, a close three-point shot is more accurate than a mid-range jumper.
LINK
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An open mid range humoer is greater than anything forced.
If a big man is in position to make a layup forced, that means someone down low is open. I'd rather our team work on finding and passing to the open man than shooting off balanced jumpers for practice
This post was edited on 2/25/16 at 9:54 am
Posted on 2/25/16 at 9:57 am to jangalang
Shooting a midrange shot is like punting the ball in football on 4 & 3 or less. Just because people do it doesn't mean it isn't stupid.
Posted on 2/25/16 at 10:01 am to GenesChin
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Shooting a midrange shot is like punting the ball in football on 4 & 3 or less. Just because people do it doesn't mean it isn't stupid.
Stop dude. That analogy doesn't even make sense.This post was edited on 2/25/16 at 10:02 am
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