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re: Alabama Basketball Recruiting and Offseason Talk
Posted on 4/24/18 at 9:54 am to BigBird09
Posted on 4/24/18 at 9:54 am to BigBird09
quote:
Also what are the rules for him to still be eligible to play in an AAU circuit as a Class of 2018 recruit? Not sure I remember that happening before. Is he just a very young senior?
Maybe. I don't know how it works either.
Adidas lists their age groups as just 17s instead of U17 like Under Armour and Nike does, so maybe that makes a difference.
This post was edited on 4/24/18 at 9:57 am
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Posted on 4/24/18 at 9:58 am to GenesChin
Yeah I don't think mentality was really the problem under Grant either. He just couldn't coach anything on offense.
Posted on 4/24/18 at 10:11 am to TomRollTideRitter
quote:
Yeah I don't think mentality was really the problem under Grant either. He just couldn't coach anything on offense.
For a newly hired and capable coach in basketball, changing the program mentality/culture is usually the easy part, especially if he has talent to work with to win early.
Just off the top of my head, here are some guys who took over programs in bad stretches who showed immediate improvement + continued success
- Matt Painter, Purdue
- Tony Bennet, UVA
- Jamie Dixon, TCU
- Chris Beard, TxTech
- John Beilein, WVU
- John Beilein, Michigan
- Kelvin Sampson, Houston
The difficult part to rebuild after Grant is the support staff/infrastructure necessary for sustained success. Building back up recruiting relationships + the support staff that I imagine Bama fans recognize as super important based on Saban/FB
This post was edited on 4/24/18 at 10:14 am
Posted on 4/24/18 at 10:27 am to BigBird09
quote:
Have we gotten any word as to why we're just now hearing about him, when he's been playing in Alabama?
He supposedly moved to the states only 6 months and it is possible he may end up being a 2019 recruit. He probably had a big learning curve both for adjusting to the US game/style + personal life.
With that in mind, seems reasonable that he went unnoticed up until this point
This post was edited on 4/24/18 at 10:37 am
Posted on 4/24/18 at 11:21 am to GenesChin
Also in the interesting Auburn rumor news, while Jared Harper is 99.99% returning, next season is likely his last at AU. Rumor is he let the staff know that his plan/desire is to go pro if he has a great season.
I haven't been able to verify this, it sounds reasonable from Harper's viewpoint. At 5'10 150, he has a pro draft/interest ceiling that his SR won't break while he carries the downside risk of injury + slump in performance.
This is basically the same rumor that we had about Heron before last season as well and why we expected him to leave. I imagine we have a better shot of convincing Harper to stay his SR season but who knows. Harper is a very serious dude, he seems like a kid who views social college life as an unnecessary distraction not a perk of college athletes
I haven't been able to verify this, it sounds reasonable from Harper's viewpoint. At 5'10 150, he has a pro draft/interest ceiling that his SR won't break while he carries the downside risk of injury + slump in performance.
This is basically the same rumor that we had about Heron before last season as well and why we expected him to leave. I imagine we have a better shot of convincing Harper to stay his SR season but who knows. Harper is a very serious dude, he seems like a kid who views social college life as an unnecessary distraction not a perk of college athletes
This post was edited on 4/24/18 at 11:24 am
Posted on 4/24/18 at 11:36 am to BigBird09
Grant may not be the anti-christ, but he almost single-handily destroyed our program and ruined a lot of talented players along the way. Coleman could shoot in spurts, but would he have made those big shots that AJ made in the NCAAT, or could he have carried us to a four overtime win on the road against a final four team like AJ did last year? I think we all know the answer to that.
Posted on 4/24/18 at 11:37 am to GenesChin
Doesn't look like we had room for Key with his level of production. Next year's roster looks like this
PG - Ingram (smh)
SG - Petty
SF - Mack
F - Herb Jones
C - Hall
Butler
AJJ
Reese
Smith
Norris(?)
Fleming(RS)
other kid (RS)
PG - Ingram (smh)
SG - Petty
SF - Mack
F - Herb Jones
C - Hall
Butler
AJJ
Reese
Smith
Norris(?)
Fleming(RS)
other kid (RS)
Posted on 4/24/18 at 11:42 am to GenesChin
Grants win percentages are pretty good because he inherited a lot of talent from CMG, and padded his win totals in his first three years against awful SEC competition. Releford was really the only Grant guy that was successful under him.
Hall and Ingram may have been recruited by him, but never actually had to play under him (thank God).
Randolph/Cooper had solid senior seasons but were mediocre and didn't develop for their first three years here. Lacey was not successful at Alabama. He underachieved for two years here, and then transferred and led NC State to the sweet 16, because CMG gave him more freedom.
Auburn's program was damaged beyond repair and if Bruce Pearl hadn't fallen into their lap, they would still suck. I don't know that Avery is as good as Bruce. The jury is still out on him as a coach. But, I hope he can get us there.
Hall and Ingram may have been recruited by him, but never actually had to play under him (thank God).
Randolph/Cooper had solid senior seasons but were mediocre and didn't develop for their first three years here. Lacey was not successful at Alabama. He underachieved for two years here, and then transferred and led NC State to the sweet 16, because CMG gave him more freedom.
Auburn's program was damaged beyond repair and if Bruce Pearl hadn't fallen into their lap, they would still suck. I don't know that Avery is as good as Bruce. The jury is still out on him as a coach. But, I hope he can get us there.
This post was edited on 4/24/18 at 11:44 am
Posted on 4/24/18 at 12:17 pm to CrimsonTider98
quote:
Grants win percentages are pretty good because he inherited a lot of talent from CMG
You can't be serious
Not sure what mental gymanstics you are doing to call the 2011-12 or 2012-13 rosters as filled with Gottfried talent. Other than Green in '11-12, no major contributor played minutes for Gottfried that I know
quote:
padded his win totals in his first three years against awful SEC competition
So your argument that he taught a culture of losing is to point towards him racking up wins?
That's a bold strategy Cotton
quote:
Hall and Ingram may have been recruited by him, but never actually had to play under him (thank God).
Ya, he could have corrupted them and made them unserviceable just like Retin Obasohan
quote:
Auburn's program was damaged beyond repairand if Bruce Pearl hadn't fallen into their lap, they would still suck.
This post was edited on 4/24/18 at 12:18 pm
Posted on 4/24/18 at 12:39 pm to GenesChin
Grant was average at Alabama. Don't really see any reason to bash him for anything more than that.
Definitely had issues with recruiting/scouting enough decent post players, public relations and certainly could have used a bright offensive assistant.
However, his teams played hard and weren't dumpster fires by any stretch. They were mainly just average NIT level teams and seemed that would be the pattern into the future with him as coach.
Posted on 4/24/18 at 1:53 pm to GenesChin
Retin shined his senior year under CAJ and would have shined earlier had CAG not clued him to the bench his first three years.
By historical Alabama basketball standards, Grant was WELL below average.
By historical Alabama basketball standards, Grant was WELL below average.
Posted on 4/24/18 at 1:58 pm to GenesChin
Not sure what mental gymanstics you are doing to call the 2011-12 or 2012-13 rosters as filled with Gottfried talent. Other than Green in '11-12, no major contributor played minutes for Gottfried tha[/quote]
As bad as Gottfried's coaching was his last few years, his final recruiting class (Green, Mitchell, Steele, Hines) was quite good. Compare that to Grant's last 2-3 recruiting classes which were all complete busts. Grant definitely had talent and his only two teams with a pulse (2010-11, 2011-12) were led primarily by CMG's players.
[quote]
GenesChin
Grants win percentages are pretty good because he inherited a lot of talent from CMG
You can't be serious
Not sure what mental gymanstics you are doing to call the 2011-12 or 2012-13 rosters as filled with Gottfried talent. Other than Green in '11-12, no major contributor played minutes for Gottfried that I know
[So your argument that he taught a culture of losing is to point towards him racking up wins?
That's a bold strategy Cotton]
Beating a bunch of garbage SEC teams 54-49 doesn't impress me. The league was at an all-time low then. I'm glad to see it's recovered in a big way.
As bad as Gottfried's coaching was his last few years, his final recruiting class (Green, Mitchell, Steele, Hines) was quite good. Compare that to Grant's last 2-3 recruiting classes which were all complete busts. Grant definitely had talent and his only two teams with a pulse (2010-11, 2011-12) were led primarily by CMG's players.
[quote]
GenesChin
Grants win percentages are pretty good because he inherited a lot of talent from CMG
You can't be serious
Not sure what mental gymanstics you are doing to call the 2011-12 or 2012-13 rosters as filled with Gottfried talent. Other than Green in '11-12, no major contributor played minutes for Gottfried that I know
[So your argument that he taught a culture of losing is to point towards him racking up wins?
That's a bold strategy Cotton]
Beating a bunch of garbage SEC teams 54-49 doesn't impress me. The league was at an all-time low then. I'm glad to see it's recovered in a big way.
This post was edited on 4/24/18 at 1:58 pm
Posted on 4/24/18 at 3:17 pm to CrimsonTider98
quote:
As bad as Gottfried's coaching was his last few years, his final recruiting class (Green, Mitchell, Steele, Hines) was quite good. Compare that to Grant's last 2-3 recruiting classes which were all complete busts. Grant definitely had talent and his only two teams with a pulse (2010-11, 2011-12) were led primarily by CMG's players.
I'm confused, is your argument that Grant can't recruit or that he ruins players careers and installs a culture of losing?
If Grant ruins players, how are guys like Green playing at higher levels after 3+ years under Grant than under Gottfried? Or Mitchell who never played under Gottfried yet with Grant played extremely well?
Grant wasn't a good coach, but he in no way torpedo'd Bama's program. He was mediocre, not better no worse
quote:
Compare that to Grant's last 2-3 recruiting classes which were all complete busts
So his evals were bad? From a pure "recruiting" standpoint Grant was mediocre but not terrible. His top 100 ESPN recruits per year isn't far from Avery
quote:
his only two teams with a pulse (2010-11, 2011-12)
So let's just try and ignore the 2012-13 team was 23-13 and tied for #2 in the SEC
Posted on 4/24/18 at 4:02 pm to GenesChin
Switching topics a bit, does anybody listen to Adam Grant’s podcast? I’m playing catch up and just listened to his March 14 episode when he interviews Shane Battier and then discusses the “Butler Way.” Worth every bit of your 34 minutes.
Posted on 4/24/18 at 4:08 pm to GenesChin
quote:
I'm confused, is your argument that Grant can't recruit or that he ruins players careers and installs a culture of losing?
He does both. Ask Trevor Lacey.
quote:
So let's just try and ignore the 2012-13 team was 23-13 and tied for #2 in the SEC
That team lost to Mercer, Tulane, and scored 37 points against the worst Auburn team of all time. The SEC was terrible that year, but that 12-13 team was a bad team.
quote:
So his evals were bad? From a pure "recruiting" standpoint Grant was mediocre but not terrible. His top 100 ESPN recruits per year isn't far from Avery
He got raw talent and couldn't develop it or put the pieces together. Mitchell and Green could've been developed by anybody on this board. Those guys had legit NBA talent. To me, Releford was really the only key player that Grant got the most out of during his time here.
quote:
Grant wasn't a good coach, but he in no way torpedo'd Bama's program. He was mediocre, not better no worse
You're way off here, bud. I've seen a lot of Alabama basketball (I'm betting more than you) and the atmosphere around the program has never been worse, not even at the end of the Hobbs era. The product on the floor was unwatchable and even our wins felt like losses. Combine that with six years of Grant's standoffish, arrogant attitude, and Avery is still trying to win over supporters that were alienated because of Grant.
Calling Grant "average" is degrading to our program. Compared to historical standards of Alabama basketball, his tenure was well below average. That's just a fact.
Posted on 4/24/18 at 5:08 pm to MontyFranklyn
we can do 13 and AJJ could have gone to a walk on status
Posted on 4/24/18 at 5:27 pm to mrbroker
We can stop with the AJJ to walk on status. His dad values him more than we do and thinks he should be on scholy it seems.
Posted on 4/24/18 at 5:28 pm to Tide or Die87
quote:
• The Chicago Tribune reported in March 2000 that Spurs guard Avery Johnson was angering teammates with selfish complaining after being benched in several fourth quarters for Terry Porter, who was a better 3-point shooter. During a 92-81 Spurs loss at Cleveland on Feb. 15, 2000, Johnson and teammate Malik Rose argued over a defensive play when Cavaliers guard Andre Miller got a 3-point play.
After the game, a nude Johnson tried to slap Rose in front of his locker while on his way to the shower, a source told The Undefeated. Rose lunged forward to hit Johnson and slipped and fell after stepping into teammate Mario Elie’s bucket of ice. Rose was held back by teammates Felton Spencer and Jerome Kersey.
Still nude, Johnson started pacing around the locker room, throwing stuff around and breaking a television while having words for Popovich, Robinson, Rose and Porter about the team no longer being his. The Spurs didn’t re-sign Johnson, although the franchise did retire his No. 6 jersey after he retired, and he instead signed with the Denver Nuggets.
LINK
Have we discussed the little naked General? This is cracking me up
Posted on 4/24/18 at 5:55 pm to Tide or Die87
Not true. Maybe it was in the past, but not anymore. The only way AJ is on schollie next year is if we miss out on all current targets.
Posted on 4/24/18 at 7:32 pm to Gongora
You know this how?
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