re: OT: Phil Robertson Canned

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I just don't understand how people become upset about two consenting adults having sex. If two males are having sex - is it really affecting you? So what's the reason?

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For me, it's a matter of morality. It's also based on what I believe about God and human behavior in relation to Him.

I personally believe that unless you get your moral standard from some source that transcends humanity, your moral standard is inevitably destined to be arbitrary and subjective.

For instance, for most people these days (it seems), the moral standard is the Wiccan Rede that says "Do what you will, so long as it harms none". The problem is, how do you define "harm"? Are you talking about immediate negative effects? Future harm that can arise from such actions? What about physical vs. emotional/psychological? And then, inevitably, it comes down to the "why" of it; why should that be my standard? It seems that it is your standard, so you are asking me to justify my thoughts on homosexuality based on that standard. All I can say towards that end is that that isn't my standard.

My standard is based on the character of God. I should love what He loves and hate what He hates. God loves righteousness (obedience to the law, which is summed up in loving God and loving my neighbor), and He hates sin (disobedience to the law, which reflects His character). I do not accept the act of homosexuality as a valid moral behavior for the same reason I don't accept the act of adultery, heterosexual fornication, rape, incest, or other types of sexual sins. There's actually a whole slew of actions that are "immoral" based on the standard I hold to, but since this topic is about homosexuality specifically, I thought I'd mention other sexual sins. In essence, the standard of right or wrong isn't always how the action affects you or me, but whether it is something that is acceptable to God.

You can say that you don't believe in God or the Bible and that you shouldn't be held to that standard. Well, then why should I be held to your standard of morality? We all have a standard that we live by.

The topic goes way above the issue of homosexuality, IMO.

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i should have stayed here and participated in this thread...im getting killed on the OT cause im an "ignorant redneck"...

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That's actually why I started it here. I sometimes visit the OT board but there are way too many people there.

Jump in. The water's nice!

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I just don't understand how people become upset about two consenting adults having sex. If two males are having sex - is it really affecting you? So what's the reason? Not attempting to flame, but rather, a genuine inquiry.

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This is a lot more complicated answer than you're probably looking for.

It's different for a lot of people. For some people it's flat out condemned by their religious beliefs. It's a sin and as a representative of their religion, they simply deplore it and want to rid the world of it's exposure and potential influence.

For others, they just find it gross or disgusting. Some of those people could care less as long as it's not effecting them, but others sadly are actual bigots and insecure assholes who suck at life so they can't help but openly voice their hate and bigotry.

And for others, like myself, I think it's nasty but only in very certain circumstances. Like when it's openly flamboyant and thrown in my face on purpose. When there's open displays of egregious and provocative affection shown in public. Although I'd feel that way about heterosexuals going too far in public too. And when it's abused and used as a tool for political gains or for attempts to bait someone in to a reaction so the reaction can be purposely used against you.

I don't think parents of young children should have to explain to their kids who just witnessed two half-naked dudes acting outrageously flamboyant and queer making out and groping each other (or even worse) right in front of them in a public setting. There's a time and place for these types of discussions, but just about no matter where you go now a days, anyone can run in to this situation virtually anywhere. And homosexuals tend to flaunt it in everyone's face like it's OK when it's not. They do it because they think they're some how special now like it's an entitlement. Liberalism and political correctness has created this sense of immunity to homosexual debauchery. And if you speak against it anywhere anytime, you're labeled an insensitive bigot.

Sometimes, it does effect you. Like in this case with Phil Robertson. I like this show. I want to see Phil on the show because it's entertaining to me. Well some Liberal bullshite PC department at A&E thinks he offended homosexuals when he didn't. And now he's suspended and something that I enjoyed watching is now less entertaining and that bothers me.

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im an "ignorant redneck"...

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Welllllllllllll........

I'm on board with you DIB: I think it was a bad business move on the part of A&E, but I support their right to fire their "employees" as they see fit. I don't think it is a free speech issue at all.

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Arguing with you is like arguing with a 10 year old.

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Why? because i don't accept your way of thinking without question? I could say the same about you. I simply give my opinion, and try to use reason. if you have a trouble arguing against reason, then don't blame me.

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if you're old enough to have one.

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I am old enough to have one. I am retired.

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If you shine a bad light on your employer, and A&E obviously felt that he did, that employer has a right to fire you, do they not?

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They absolutely do have that right. but that does not make it right. I also don't agree that a gay person should lose their job simply because they are gay. But in a right to work state, the company can fire them for that. Does it make it right?

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There are plenty of examples of conservatives up in arms over something a "librul" said and calling for their firing, and vice versa.

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I have seen many examples of liberals calling for the firing of a conservative. I have not seen many examples of the opposite. I will show you examples of liberals calling for the job of a conservative...would you mind showing me an example of conservatives calling for the firing of a liberal for what they said?

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Extremists can go frick themselves.

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And therein lies the problem. WHO is an extremist? I have seen it said that anyone who is conservative is an extremist. Christians have been said to be extremist. Liberals say conservatives are extremist. Conservatives say liberals are extremist. Truth is...nobody truly knows what an extremist is anymore, do they?

We cool man.

You see I've found that these days it's easier to attack the format of an argument rather than the argument itself. Plus it just annoys the shite out of ppl.

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I am referring to all parties involved. People need to think for themselves

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I agree. Too often BOTH sides of the argument seem to quote what they have heard others say.

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am not sure if you are serious, but I will indulge nonetheless. Drinking and Driving is a selfish act that endangers the lives of many others.

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And yet, many people drive drunk and never hurt another person. I think my point (Emphasis on the word think, if you can believe that! ) is that we impose guidelines on people every single day. I mean, smoking was a very accepted habit until a few short years ago. Then it grew out of favor, and many people gave it up.

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Two adults chosing to engage in their preferred form of sexual activity does not hurt anyone or put anyone's life in jeopardy.

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I disagree. It helps spread all kinds of diseases including AIDS. A man who frequents a prostitute could come home and give it to his wife. So, yes. Two consenting adults having sex can and does affect other people.

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I was not claiming that Cathy's comments were meant to stimulate sales. Rather, I was citing that instance as an example of how controversy can be profitable under certain circumstances.

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I didn't think that was what you meant, but was not totally sure. I don't actually know Dan Cathey very well, but I know Bubba pretty well. I know their family, (Kids, grandkids) and can tell you they are some of the most genuine and gracious people you could ever want to know. And you are correct. they did receive a temporary boost to their sales when people tried to strong arm them.

Hey..no problem with you Cherokee Chinstrap. I hope you have no problem with me. I enjoyed the debate...and Go Dawgs!

This has been a very good discussion and I've enjoyed it.
I'll close out just by saying that I am a huge advocate for private sectors in everything. Say what you want, hire and fire who you want, etc.

I hope that "fire who you want" doesn't come across as sounding like I think people critical of A&E shouldn't be able to be critical. It's all healthy discussion IMO. I'm a Christian but feel our nation is best served by completely understanding the difference between a private entity making a business decision and actual infringement of free speech (I know that's been beat into the ground here by now though).

Have a great weekend!

Jesus wandered the desert with 12 men who adored him, and he never married.