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re: OT: Phil Robertson Canned
Posted on 12/20/13 at 12:57 pm to Sanford&MunSon
Posted on 12/20/13 at 12:57 pm to Sanford&MunSon
quote:
My only problem with this is the idea that I need/want some other mortal of flesh and blood to save me. It's pure arrogance. By that the way I'm not directing that at you personally. You're a damn fine poster and probably a righteous dude in real life. However, I grew up in a southern baptist church and have experienced those type of people that are out to redeem the non-believers.
But as I said that is not directed at you bud. It's just a statement about those type of ppl.
No worries, fellow dawg fan; I am not easily offended. I have learned the hard way through trial and mostly error over the years.
As for yours truly, I find myself in a transitional period: LINK though somewhat in the opposite direction of Jules.
My parents were married in a Baptist church but after they divorced my Mom moved us to her Mother's Christian church. As such I was raised in a Christian environment but lived anything but a Christian life during my young wild years. 
I married a wonderful Christian lady who guided me back into the church and probably saved me from becoming a drug addict and criminal. But I tend to be rational/pragmatic/objective by nature and over the years I guess I have become agnostic for lack of a better term. Bottom line: Christianity is absolutely a wonderful model for life and living but we simply have no way of knowing for sure whether the God or his Son as depicted in the Bible, exists or not. However, the key to Christianity is faith and the concept is certainly real and that might be all that matters. Because what we do know is that we live on in the hearts and minds of those we leave behind and if living a Christian life endears us in the memories of loved ones, then surely that can't be a bad thing even if it is delusional.
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Posted on 12/20/13 at 1:09 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
I mean that he's smart enough to know that his beliefs (especially about homosexuality) are not shared by many
Not shared by many???
Whatchoo smoken, dude?
The overwhelming vast majority of this country finds homosexuality deplorable, unnatural, and gross. And obviously more so male on male vs. female on female.
Most people will say it's none of their business and as long as it doesn't effect them, they got no problem with it.
Some people are so afraid of being ostracized as "insensitive" or a "bigot" that they just lie and say people have the freedom to do as they want.
But it doesn't change the fact that if there was some mechanism that prevented people from lying and forced people to speak their true minds, the vast vast VAST majority of people in this country would come across as insensitive bigots if they were asked how they really feel about homosexuality.
Now if we're talking about devout Christians who actually know about, care about, and live by the teachings and scripture of the Bible, then we're still talking about a huge majority of the population who most assuredly agrees 100% with what Phil Robertson said. Again, he was simply paraphrasing what the Bible considers a sin. If that's just not your thing, believing in the Bible, which much more of this country does than doesn't, then so be it. Nothing wrong with that. But it's pretty naïve to claim that not many share his beliefs.
This post was edited on 12/20/13 at 1:17 pm
Posted on 12/20/13 at 1:15 pm to BeefDawg
quote:
the vast majority of this country finds homosexuality deplorable.
You have statistics and numbers to back this generalization up of course?
Posted on 12/20/13 at 1:16 pm to Sanford&MunSon
Posted on 12/20/13 at 1:21 pm to Sanford&MunSon
Posted on 12/20/13 at 1:22 pm to Sanford&MunSon
quote:
You have statistics and numbers to back this generalization up of course?
Deplorable simply means deserving of condemnation. In other words, you don't really like something or you disapprove of it.
How about you show me statistics and numbers to back up the notion that the vast majority of the country approves of homosexuality?
You won't be able to do it because nobody is going to do such a study. And even if they did, it would be beyond inaccurate because people are more worried about appearing as insensitive bigots than not.
I'm telling you though, most dudes think arse banging another dude is disgusting and the mere fact that straight people outnumber gays about about 98:1, I think I can make a logical assumption and not have to come close to worrying about it being wrong.
This post was edited on 12/20/13 at 1:28 pm
Posted on 12/20/13 at 1:28 pm to BeefDawg
Yes I'm aware of what deplorable means.
That's not how it works. I didn't make the generalization so I don't have to prove anything. I simply asked you to prove your statement.
Don't carry weight in effective argumentation, but to each his own.
quote:
how about you show me number that shows they approve?
That's not how it works. I didn't make the generalization so I don't have to prove anything. I simply asked you to prove your statement.
quote:
logical assumptions
Don't carry weight in effective argumentation, but to each his own.
Posted on 12/20/13 at 1:28 pm to BeefDawg
We're on the same page here, for the most part, but my comment was made the way it was for a reason. I said "many" because "many" don't agree that homosexuality is a sin. Many don't think it is wrong in any way. Many think it is perfectly acceptable. Many think it is as natural as feeling hungry and should be embraced.
That doesn't mean that everyone believes that, or that even the majority of people do (I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of people were accepting of it, though). "Many" just means a lot. Even if 1%-3% of the total population thought it was wonderful to be gay, that would still be "many" people.
I personally think the act of homosexuality (sexual intercourse between two men or two women) is sinful and should not be accepted, but many people don't agree with that. Homosexuality is being pushed heavily in the media in order to desensitize people to it so that it is accepted by more and more people. It is being equated with a civil rights issue (as if someone's skin color is the same sort of thing as how someone has sex).
It's the culture we live in. As the issue is promoted more and more in our culture, those who dare to speak against it will be vilified and made to be evil, bigoted, and hateful. While the mantra is "acceptance", it is really selective acceptance. Someone like PR will not be accepted if they publicly say something negative against homosexuality. Such intolerance will not be tolerated. And that is the fallacy of the whole thing....
That doesn't mean that everyone believes that, or that even the majority of people do (I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of people were accepting of it, though). "Many" just means a lot. Even if 1%-3% of the total population thought it was wonderful to be gay, that would still be "many" people.
I personally think the act of homosexuality (sexual intercourse between two men or two women) is sinful and should not be accepted, but many people don't agree with that. Homosexuality is being pushed heavily in the media in order to desensitize people to it so that it is accepted by more and more people. It is being equated with a civil rights issue (as if someone's skin color is the same sort of thing as how someone has sex).
It's the culture we live in. As the issue is promoted more and more in our culture, those who dare to speak against it will be vilified and made to be evil, bigoted, and hateful. While the mantra is "acceptance", it is really selective acceptance. Someone like PR will not be accepted if they publicly say something negative against homosexuality. Such intolerance will not be tolerated. And that is the fallacy of the whole thing....
Posted on 12/20/13 at 1:55 pm to Sanford&MunSon
quote:
I work in the medical field and I'm not allowed to misrepresent my employers in any manner unless I want to lose my job. This even includes making what they may deem to be inappropriate comments that are recorded and can be recalled.
I agree 100%. And no one SHOULD say things representing their employers that reflects poorly on their employer. however, he clearly represented it as HIS opinion and beliefs. All A&E had to do was say his words and opinions do not reflect theirs. This disclaimer is used all the time. Our problem (Societies) is that we allow every special interest group try to dictate every one elses opinions, speech, beliefs and thoughts. People want everybody to think just like they do. That is not realistic. Every one is different. I don't agree with a LOT of what some people say on this board, but I don't call for them to be fired for voicing their opinion.
Posted on 12/20/13 at 1:58 pm to Punctatus
quote:
A country where the minority now seems to rule.
Minority rights should be defended. I have no problem with that. however, he was not infringing upon anyone elses rights. He simply stated his opinion. In short....I agree with your post!
Posted on 12/20/13 at 1:58 pm to FooManChoo
I just don't understand how people become upset about two consenting adults having sex. If two males are having sex - is it really affecting you? So what's the reason?
Not attempting to flame, but rather, a genuine inquiry.
Not attempting to flame, but rather, a genuine inquiry.
Posted on 12/20/13 at 1:59 pm to davesdawgs
quote:
Yep, and if Robertson had hypothetically referred to Christianity as a fantasy there would have been zero fricks given by anyone included A&E and no action would have been taken by A&E.
Absolutely and without a doubt 100% true.
Posted on 12/20/13 at 2:02 pm to FlatwoodsForester
quote:
He may not like the way its being spun by the media, but at least its out there.
And here is the key in my book. To everybody commenting on this I challenge you to read his comments has HE said them. Do not read what someone else is saying he said. Look for quotation marks! I have read both his comments AND what some "News" outlets have reported him as saying. The "News" outlets in almost every case have misrepresented what he said.
Posted on 12/20/13 at 2:12 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
Every single person who has ever lived (save for one) is a sinner, so we all break the law of God somewhere. If PR was to "hate" gays, he would have to "hate" himself, his family, and everyone else in the world because everyone sins. He doesn't hate anyone, though
Foo gets it. THIS is what Christianity is about. However, in fairness, Christians (Myself included) sometimes forget this and act contrary to the way we should. But a basic tenet of Christianity is an old trite saying...you hate the sin, but love the sinner." Not an easy thing to separate,(Sin from sinner) but nobody said being a Christian was easy. Even Christ said that he did not come into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world.
Posted on 12/20/13 at 2:18 pm to Cherokee Chinstrap
quote:
However, I do have a problem with people trying to force their beliefs/hold others to their own personal belief standards.
Are you referring to Phil Robertson here, or A&E and the LGBT Community?
quote:
Just because I choose to believe something does not give me, or anyone else the right to hold others to that standard.
We do this all the time, though, do we not? I mean, we believe that Drinking and driving is wrong, and we condemn those that DO drink and drive, do we not?
quote:
He also knows that controversy leads to higher profits, Chickfila is all the evidence that you need.
ChikFilA was profitable long before Dan Cathey made his comments, and he did not make them to increase profit. I happen to know the Catheys (Truett, Dan and Bubba) well, and I can assure you, they are sincere in their beliefs. They also treat everyone the same, no matter what their beliefs or lifestyle.
If you check PR comments he also states that he treats everyone with respect, no matter if they do not agree with him or live the same standards that he does.
Posted on 12/20/13 at 2:24 pm to BoulderDawg34
quote:
Come on man. No one is trying to control another's speech.
If you punish someone for saying something you certainly are trying to control their speech. Just as a parent tries to control their childrens actions by punishing them. Explain something to me. If they are NOT trying to control his speech, then why did the suspend him? What was the purpose? To punish him for what he said, right?
If you can explain and show me how suspending him was not intending to change his speech behavior then I will agree. Why do people call for the firing of another person after they say something if not to silence that particular line of thinking? I am afraid it is you, sir, who are towing "the party line".
Posted on 12/20/13 at 2:30 pm to Damn Good Dawg
quote:
Just because it may be seen as guiding wisdom or whatever by christians doesn't mean he should just be slinging that out there.
He wasn't slinging it out there. he was asked a question and he answered it.
quote:
Again, I don't give a shite that he hates gays
He doesn't hate gays. I honestly believe that there are some Christians who DO hate gays and use Christianity to justify it...and they are wrong. However, I don't see that in him at all. Where did you get that he hates gays? because he disagrees with their lifestyle? isn't that stretching things a bit?
I always get sucked into threads like this and regret it as soon as I do!
Posted on 12/20/13 at 2:33 pm to Damn Good Dawg
quote:
Didn't they all grow those enormous beards after they got the show?
Surely not! how long does it take to grow a beard like those? It would take me 20 years!
I'm with you on this one. I don't watch reality TV at all. Just not a fan.
Posted on 12/20/13 at 2:35 pm to BeefDawg
quote:
Phil founded the Duck Commander duck hunting gear store years ago. Originally it was just him creating a duck caller and selling it. But it took off and became big.
Whether you like them or not,, everyone has to admit they have done very well for themselves. And I have no problem with people making money as long it is done ethically and honestly.
Posted on 12/20/13 at 2:42 pm to VoxDawg
quote:
Freedom of speech is not freedom from consequences. Just ask the Dixie Chicks.
True. but the Dixie Chicks suffered (If they did suffer) from people not buying their albums or going to their concerts. NOT because their record label dropped them. BIG difference. If they left them alone and allowed the public vote by either watching or not watching DD, I would have had no problem with it. It is only when people want to bend others to their way of thinking that I have a problem with it.
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