FooManChoo
| Favorite team: | Georgia  |
| Location: | |
| Biography: | |
| Interests: | |
| Occupation: | |
| Number of Posts: | 47817 |
| Registered on: | 12/1/2012 |
| Online Status: | Not Online |
Recent Posts
Message
re: Has anyone considered that this execution debacle could be God's will?
Posted by FooManChoo on 10/19/26 at 11:05 am to BFIV
quote:Thank you for the reminder :cheers:
Foo, I remind you of Matthew 7:6. I think it is definitely appropriate here.
I'm trying to hold that verse in tension with other verses like Titus 1:9 "[an elder] must hold firm to the trustworthy word as taught, so that he may be able to give instruction in sound doctrine and also to rebuke those who contradict it.". (I know I'm not the board's elder here, but looking at the principle of protecting other brothers and sisters from his arguments), and Proverbs 26:5, "Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own eyes."
Needless to say, I'm sure I could be doing better here. I appreciate your prayers on this.
2
re: Has anyone considered that this execution debacle could be God's will?
Posted by FooManChoo on 10/19/26 at 9:30 am to Squirrelmeister
quote:No, it's objectively your issue. Anyone with access to the internet can find the difference between objective and subjective truth (especially applied to morality) and see that you are wrong on this. I've explained it to you many times but you still don't get it.
No, this is your sin, your flaw, not mine.
quote:1. No, not by other humans.
Hey idiot, you’re the one that promotes that babies deserved to be endlessly tortured based on a book of ancient fables.
2. All people deserved to suffer for our sins for eternity
3. Not based on a book of ancient fables. Based on God's word, which confirms the truth already written on our consciences (the law).
quote:According to your false belief, not reality. You reject evidence for the existence of God, believe He doesn't exist, and then force that belief on me by saying I'm deluded for not seeing the obvious truth that you see. You are too blinded to see that delusion doesn't pertain to questions that are up in the air (from a worldly standpoint, at least), such as the existence of God. God could exist, and therefore to believe He exists is not delusion.
Anyone who is convinced of imaginary invisible good and evil deities that exist outside of our time and space but can affect our reality and even hear people’s thoughts and affect people’s actions are deluded.
quote:They may or may not be delusional, but I couldn't say for sure. They could be tormented by a demon that they think is Zeus or a leprechaun. My worldview accounts for the supernatural, so delusion is harder to definitively declare. I can say they are wrong or mistaken based on my own beliefs, but I can't say they are necessarily delusional.
So if someone believes in leprechauns or the mind flayer or Zeus, and the imaginary beings that you know do not exist are tormenting them, you would argue that the person is not delusional because you can’t prove a leprechaun doesn’t exist?
quote:There are endless examples of evidence for the existence of God. From spiritual arguments to evidential arguments to mathematical to moral to philosophical arguments, His existence has been argued about for a long, long time, with many people being persuaded by the arguments and evidence.
yeah I can assert it. Positive assertions require positive evidence. You don’t have any evidence. I reject your assertions as I have no reason to believe them.
If you deny there is any evidence for God, then you are just being ridiculous, because no intellectual person can deny the fact that evidence exists. The question is whether or not that evidence is persuasive. That's why I said previously that you don't understand the difference between proof and persuasion.
quote:This again goes back to the difference between proof and persuasion. Learn the difference.
People being convinced of imaginary shite is insufficient reason for me to believe it.
quote:I'm happy to deal with that. There are many arguments that can be made against the Qur'an and the Haddith to show that it's false. Also, you are conflating different events.
There are 2 Billion people in the world today that believe the prophet Muhammad flew up and through the 7 heavens on a flying donkey. I’m not convinced, but if you believe people believing in something is evidence of the truthfulness of the belief, then you have to deal with Muhammad and his flying donkey.
quote:I'm sure you do. I'm talking about your Creator: God.
I love my parents, thank you.
quote:You are rebelling against God by disobeying Him and not honoring Him as God.
If you’re talking about Yahweh Sabaoth, the fiery of the Shasu nomads in Arabia, there’s nothing to rebel against
quote:Your misunderstanding of the early Christian teachings and beliefs don't help you here. We've gone over this many times with Paul and the AoI, and I was finally glad you conceded that you misunderstood the documentation that was critical to your belief about Paul's teachings. But, like I said, there is more evidence for Jesus' existence then Pythagoras and Socrates. That's an objective fact, and why so many people hostile to Christianity can accept it.
No, this is bullshite. I’m sure you are convinced of this but it is a false statement. The early Christian sects of Paul and the ones “1 John” and “2 Peter” attack would reject your shite and agree with me that the religion is not based on a Jesus that had ever been on earth.
quote:Perhaps you're right about GW and Elvis, but that doesn't change my point. Your own criteria doesn't work for addressing historical claims.
George Washington and Elvis and many others were documented by some to have performed miracles and to be of divine origins. But they were humans, not celestial supernatural beings written to be a human on earth as fan fiction.
quote:If you're going to go off of the book that claims His existence, you have to use the same standard for the use of the word "magic". According to that same book, God isn't magical. He's divine. There's a substantive difference in those things. You need to be consistent or else you further show the irrationality of your position.
Well “God” doesn’t exist but the character in mythology is magic.
God performs magic. Period.
quote:You may be the smartest person alive, but you don't demonstrate it on this forum. Your ignorance of basics of grammar, textual interpretation, and even basic philosophical concepts seems to demonstrate you are not as smart as you want others to think you are.
Not only am I smarter than you, but I have a shitload more common sense than you. I’m just tired of your shite.
quote:The 10 commandments are an objective standard. You deny objective moral standards (and you still don't seem to know the difference between objective and subjective in terms of truth claims) and so all you can possibly do is emote your personal opinions, which no one cares about. I don't care what your favorite color is, either.
There is no objective standard in the Bible. There is none period. Yahweh Sabaoth is a fictive mythical character. And you abhor babies so much that you promote their endless torture. You’re fricking sick.
You are sick, and even beyond that, you are spiritually dead. You need to be made alive by God and turn to Him by faith. Ask Him to forgive you and to give you faith before you are the one being tortured in everlasting damnation.
re: I wonder if all the LGBTQ+ people realize, once more Islamists are in power..
Posted by FooManChoo on 10/19/26 at 9:06 am to RFK
quote:I am. That's one of the great things about God's unchanging moral standard (the 10 commandments): it applies to me as well as to my neighbor, and I can do what Jesus did by making righteous judgements according to the same standard that will be used to judge me.
Are you strong enough to point that high-powered perception at yourself?
quote:I agree. The support for abortion and LGBTQ+ issues are great examples of where this country needs to repent.
The U.S. commits acts everyday that the world could rightly view as sinful.
quote:I don't know much about that other than the reports of abuse of the program, so if abuse exists, I'm perfectly fine with shutting it down, reviewing it for waste and fraud, and then restarting something like that with more scrutiny in place.
Turning off USAID was one. The number of children affected by that political decision is shameful.
That said, I'm also OK if it doesn't exist for the time being, because we have so many problems that need to be fixed in America that we should ensure that our own people are cared for before we focus on other countries. The government of this nation has an obligation to serve its people first and foremost.
re: Wife Democrat Me Republican Dinner With Democrat Friends
Posted by FooManChoo on 10/19/26 at 9:01 am to TigerTiger12914
quote:This was very wise of you. Kudos.
I did not say a word on way home and wanted to wait to have the conversation today when i have calmed down.
re: I wonder if all the LGBTQ+ people realize, once more Islamists are in power..
Posted by FooManChoo on 10/18/26 at 10:13 am to RFK
quote:Supporting sinful cultures and lifestyles isn’t a matter of respect and dignity. Human beings can be given such without giving validity to their sin.
Giving people basic dignity and respect isn’t politics, it’s just being a good neighbor.
re: Why are Muslims popping up everywhere and taking over?
Posted by FooManChoo on 10/18/26 at 8:58 am to OysterPoBoy
As others have said, they use our tolerant laws against us. When they become large enough to influence change, either by vote or violence, then they will.
re: A prayer to SATAN.
Posted by FooManChoo on 10/17/26 at 9:31 pm to 3down10
quote:What are the "basic commandments"? You still have never answered me when I've asked what the "commandments" are that you claim are essential to keep perfectly for eternal life. I would think that you would jump at the thought of telling me.
My standard is the understanding behind the basic commandments.
So again, what are all the commandments we must keep for eternal life?
quote:You think a society that actually stops lying, stealing, and hoarding wealth because they are forced by their government is actually obeying? Or, do you think it needs to come from the heart and desire to honor God, rather than just merely "check[ing] a religious box" to obey?
A society that actually stops lying, stealing, and hoarding wealth is making progress. A society that excuses these behaviors because they checked a religious box is declining.
Also, if a someone doesn't love God but recognizes the social benefit of keeping the 2nd table of the law and does so perfectly (according to you), then are they going to heaven?
quote:I didn't say it should be an excuse for corruption. You continue to misunderstand me, which is ironic, considering one of your two tenets for your religion is getting "understanding".
When Jesus said no one is good but God, it wasn't an excuse to be corrupt, it was talking about the source.
"Good" is a moral designation. Jesus was acknowledging that only God is truly good because only He is perfectly moral. No one who sins can be called "good".
quote:He claimed to be God and accepted worship. You think that's someone who is of the spirit and has the Father in him?
And to go even further, it's about being from the spirit, aka of God, rather than being of the flesh. What Jesus does is show what someone who acts only of the spirit does. Thus why I see the father in him.
quote:It's not optional because accepting the free gift comes from a changed heart. The changed heart produces changed desires and affections which lead to love for God, hatred of sin, and repentance unto good works (obedience). You keep ignoring what I'm telling you. You need to stop, because either you truly lack understanding, or you are willfully lying about me and what I believe, which is a violation of the 9th commandment.
You can say it a million times people must repent for individual sins, and it won't matter because at the end of the day it's optional and you will tell everyone, the same as you told me, about the "free gift".
quote:No, it means turning away from sin and turning to obedience by faith in Jesus.
For you, repent just means accept the idol.
quote:In John 14, Jesus was saying that He would send the Holy Spirit to His disciples so that they would remember all that Jesus taught them. Why? So they could teach others, in alignment with Matthew 28 and "the great commission". The Spirit was given to the apostles at first for that special purpose, but then given to all believers to comfort them, guide them and lead them through the word of God. Jesus did not say that the Spirit would teach apart from Jesus' teachings but alongside them, because the Spirit is His Spirit.
What part of John 14 was not about private revelation in your opinion? Do you believe the words of Jesus? Are you honest enough to say you don't understand them even? Or do you need to quote Paul to let me know what he actually should have said, but lacked the ability to at the time.
quote:I'm not following you. When did I claim to have a private revelation? You are the one claiming that.
Is this private revelation limited to the extent to which you believe you have experienced it?
re: A prayer to SATAN.
Posted by FooManChoo on 10/17/26 at 7:31 pm to 3down10
quote:Jesus is the Creator. He said before Abraham was, He existed. He said He is the alpha and the omega. He created all things.
No, you replaced the Creator with Jesus.
quote:Paul again... dude, I'm throwing Jesus' own words at you. I'm not quoting Paul except occasionally in passing because I know you irrationally reject Paul.
That's what every single idol says - this idol is God. That's what it means to REPLACE. Instead of God, you give it to Jesus.
You basically admit to it, but then claim "it's different this time" because of Paul and your traditions.
Jesus is the one who accepted worship from His disciples. He's the one who took on the names of God, the attributes of God, the honor of God, the works of God, and the seat of God by sitting at His right hand. According to you, Jesus is an idolater. If He is, then He isn't a good example. Are you going to stop saying He's an example to follow?
quote:I believe both things. You don't.
Jesus said if you believe in him, you will keep the commandments.
You don't believe in him, you believe he died for your sins. Huge difference.
And Jesus still said you must believe in Him. He commanded it. That would be adding to the law according to you, right?
And you still haven't addressed the fact that Jesus is an idolater according to your standard. What are you going to say about that?
quote:Psalm 82 was directed to the leaders of Israel, not to all people without distinction. Israel was called God's children many times, because they were His covenantal children.
I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
And that is what I was also shown. It's in all, not just those you agree with.
You reject Jesus, therefore you are not His child through adoption.
quote:Jesus is God. The Father is God. The Father is in the Son and the Son is in the Father. It wasn't simply understanding, but a relationship that only the Father and Son have.
No, because the father is in him. Because wisdom and understanding, not silver and gold, are the rewards of the father.
When the Father spoke of Jesus as His Son, in whom He is well pleased, that was a special declaration about Jesus, not all people. Jesus had understanding as God, not as a mere man enlightened by God. Jesus claimed to be God, afterall.
re: A prayer to SATAN.
Posted by FooManChoo on 10/17/26 at 7:22 pm to 3down10
quote:We also cannot die for sin or raise the dead, so we can't do everything He did. However, if we are engrafted with Him, we will produce obedience, even if not perfect, because we will have the Holy Spirit as our helper, fighting against our sinful natures.
Jesus says you will do everything he does and more, which included keeping the commandments.
quote:You don't need understanding to keep the commandments. The nation of Israel in the OT had the understanding of sin and the law and they still couldn't keep them. Understanding is intellectual, not moral. There are a lot of people who know it's an offense against God when they sin, but they do it anyway.
That those who believe will be given the understanding they need to keep the commandments.
quote:No, I don't. How many times do I have to say that all need to repent of their sins and obey before you'll accept that I do not excuse sin?
You just look for ways to excuse corruption. That it's unavoidable. That is what those who lack understanding say, not those with understanding.
quote:First, no one is naturally good-hearted. It's why we must be born again. Even Jesus responded to the rich man by saying no one is good but God.
Because you do not understand them and because you are not good hearted, you can not keep them. That is a fact. And worshiping the idol of Jesus rather than looking at what he actually says isn't going to give it to you either.
Second, as I said before, understanding alone does not provide capability to be sinless, and you haven't demonstrated that it does.
If you were looking at all of Jesus' words, you would see that He demanded belief in Him. If all we had to do was obey the commandments of God from the moral law (10 commandments), then Jesus added to the law by commanded others to believe in Him and follow after Him by faith. So no, He isn't an idol. If you think He is, then you have to accept that He commanded idolatry, accepted false worship, and is not "good", and therefore not a good example to follow.
quote:If you're going to use the word "progress", you need to have a standard to measure against. You have no standard because you don't have truth. You have your own private revelation. How can the world make progress according to your beliefs if the world has not had your own private revelation?
Since Jesus we've had 2000 years of technological progress and the only spiritual progress has come as a result of the Christian church losing power which enabled the enlightenment age and the birth of our country.
quote:Yes, God is always right, and being a "lead[ing] a good life" is based on God's standard. As Jesus pointed out, no one is good but God, and all break the law, so no one is good and no one deserves heaven. Even by your own standard of perfect obedience, no one will be in heaven.
And as our society declines, I see Christians who believe they are saved just like you, doing many bad things and you will tell me these people belong in heaven. And then you'll turn around and point to someone who has lead a good life and claim they belong in hell. Only you won't even take responsibility for that, you'll just claim God is always right.
re: A prayer to SATAN.
Posted by FooManChoo on 10/17/26 at 7:08 pm to 3down10
quote:I'm not confusing anything. I'm addressing your silly analogy. I even said that I was speaking from a human perspective. I wonder why you didn't quote me this time. Was it to hide what I was actually saying? That would be pretty dishonest if that were the case.
Saying that you can have a peaceful society under a totalitarian regime that allows for targeted rape, murder, and theft is a moral monstrosity. It proves you have absolutely no understanding of true peace or spirituality. A society that permits rape, murder, and theft is a hellscape, no matter how much order a dictator forces upon it. You confuse outward control with inward righteousness.
I actually do not promote rape, theft, and murder, and agree that heaven will not have those things present, because there will be no sin in heaven. There is no way to actually address sin in your perverted belief system. You think God just arbitrarily forgives it because you try to obey.
quote:That doesn't mean anything to me since you are devoid of truth to even know what is and isn't disgusting. Those who are dead in their sins hate the followers of Christ because it is a light shining on their darkness.
You're disgusting.
re: A prayer to SATAN.
Posted by FooManChoo on 10/17/26 at 7:04 pm to 3down10
quote:The problem with idols is that they replace the creator. Jesus is the creator. He is God and accepted worship as God. The Father even said Jesus is His Son and in whom God is well pleased. How is the Father pleased with the Son if the Son steals the Father's worship and glory?
This is exactly how idols work. You replace God, then use it as a reason to disobey God.
That's the entire problem with idols.
Jesus is God, and is not an idol. You owe Him your worship.
quote:Jesus said to believe in Him. He accepted worship and healed in His own name and by His own authority. You either have to accept that Jesus taught that He is God and worship Him, or reject Him entirely. You can't look to Him as a good example to follow if you think He promoted idolatry.
Instead of using what Jesus says to find God, you turned Jesus into an idol and you worship that instead.
quote:Only in a certain sense. God actually adopts certain people to be His spiritual offspring, and He gave us as a gift to His Son.
Everyone is a child of the father.
You are only a child of God in the most basic sense that He created you in His image. You are not an heir of eternal life as a spiritual child unless you are adopted through Jesus Christ. Repent and turn to Him for salvation.
quote:Yes, because He is God.
Jesus had understanding.
re: A prayer to SATAN.
Posted by FooManChoo on 10/17/26 at 7:00 pm to 3down10
quote:That's literally the opposite of what I said.
No, you try to claim the authority of saying people must follow, but then will turn around and say it's optional.
quote:Wealth is not sinful in and of itself. Joseph of Arimathea was wealthy and a follower of Jesus. Lydia was supposedly wealthy because she sold purple dye/clothes, which would have made her a lot of money. Joseph was wealthy. Job was wealthy. Abraham was wealthy. David was wealthy. Solomon was wealthy. On and on and on. Wealth is not sinful, so there is no reason to tell someone to sell their wealth if they have it just because they have it.
Because you will NOT tell the rich man he must give his wealth to the poor. According to you, you can have the wealth AND still follow Jesus.
So the question is why Jesus told the rich man to sell his possessions? The answer is that Jesus wasn't against wealth, but against idolatry. It's why He said that if your eye or hand causes you to sin, that you cut it off. He wasn't saying eyes are sinful and hands are sinful and both need to be cut off as a general rule. Jesus even clarified that it wasn't money but the trust in money (idolatry) that keeps the rich out of heaven.
quote:The gift can cover all sin, but if you reject the gift of salvation through Christ alone, then you don't have the gift to cover your idolatry.
So the 1st commandment is the one the free gift can't cover?
This makes me think that you haven't understood anything I've said :banghead:
quote:No, Jesus said He is the only way to the Father. You are claiming that obedience to the commandments it he way to the Father. You are contradicting Jesus.
You keep screaming that I am an idolater for not accepting your system, but you are projecting your own reality onto me. Your idol is Jesus.
Jesus claimed to be God and was nearly stoned multiple times for it. You refuse to worship Him.
quote:Jesus claimed to be God. I believe Him. You don't. That's the difference. It's not idolatry to worship God, and Jesus is God. It's idolatry to refuse to worship God. That's what you are doing.
You have taken a person, equated him to the Father, and used his name to completely replace the actual commandments of God. That is the exact definition of idolatry. Throughout history, every idol has been created the same way. Men take a localized image or figure, declare that it is God, and then use that figure as a shield so they can stop obeying the universal laws of righteousness.
And no, I'm not replacing the commandments of God. I uphold the 10 commandments, including the 1st commandment to worship no other gods but the one, true, and living God: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
quote:No, you worship this "clean society" you keep talking about. You don't care about the holiness of God, which is clear by how you keep making man and man's obedience the focal point of the discussion while I keep pointing back to God.
Calling your idol by a holy name does not change the physics of what you are doing. You are using a human figure to bypass the actual requirements of a clean society. I worship the Father by pointing people to the logical blueprint of his laws. You worship an idol by using a blood sacrifice as a cosmic loophole to avoid those very laws.
The chief end (purpose) of man is to glorify God and enjoy Him forever. You seem to think the chief end of man is to focus on man's own obedience to make himself clean for a clean society. It's completely man-centered, which is a good tell that you are an idolatrer.
quote:What a surpise :lol:
I'm not going to bother with your Paul quotes. He says things that are true, but only to grab authority before warping it.
You do that as well when you talk about needing to keep the commandments, but then follow it with a free gift.
You don't want to engage with Paul when he contradicts your false claims because it means you can't have that crutch any longer. If we keep up this conversation, you can just pretend that he didn't say those things and lie some more about him and Christianity.
Now that you've been corrected, there is no excuse for you. If you claim that Paul rejected the law again, you will be breaking the 9th commandment and will no longer be clean to enter your clean society (according to your false beliefs). So be honest and accept that what you said about Paul isn't true.
And no, I don't do what you're claiming. I'm distinguishing between meritorious works and works of thanksgiving. I recognize that no one is saved by obeying the commandments because we cannot and do not obey them perfectly. That's why Jesus had to obey them for us. I do, however, recognize that we are still to be holy as God is holy, and to imitate Christ through obedience and repentance when we fall short.
quote:Not magically changed. Supernaturally changed. That's what Jesus does when He washes us clean in glory.
Oh, so now you're magically going to be changed in an instant? If that was the case, there wouldn't be a reason to go through life to start with.
So what's the point of obedience? To give glory to God who demands it. It's for His sake, not ours. He is the focus of all our being. He demands obedience and He has created us for that purpose: to do good works (obedience).
quote:Do you claim to be without sin now that you have this understanding?
The actual change comes from understanding and wisdom, which will transform a person so they keep the commandments and don't sin anymore. A theme that is repeated over and over in the bible and by Jesus himself. Not some magical brush.
re: A prayer to SATAN.
Posted by FooManChoo on 10/17/26 at 6:43 pm to 3down10
quote:Faith and obedience are separated when it comes to merit, because there isn't enough obedience to make up for even one act of disobedience. One sin is an offense against an infinite God, and therefore it is an infinite offense. It cannot be forgiven arbitrarily through temporary obedience in one aspect. It's why the infinite value of Jesus' life had to be given to pay for sin-debt.
You are trying to separate faith from obedience so you can use belief as an escape hatch.
So no, faith is not an escape hatch for obedience. It's an escape hatch for damnation, having to pay the sin-debt that we've accumulated and continue to accumulate.
Once our sins are paid, we are to respond with obedience and repentance. They go together, but only Christ's works merit salvation, and only faith receives that benefit.
quote:Amen and amen to all of this, except for that the understanding is what changes the acts. It's the Spirit that changes the acts in cooperation with our thankfulness to what Christ has done for us.
Whenever people were justified by their belief in the gospels, it was immediately followed by a complete turn away from their old behavior. Faith is not a passive mental opinion. It is an understanding that changes how you act.
But yes, you're absolutely right about people who were justified following it up with a change in behavior. That's exactly what Paul speaks about, which is true for all of the Bible. A new heart that trusts in Jesus will bear good fruit. That's what Jesus taught explicitly.
So stop saying I don't care about obedience. I'm not an antinomian.
quote:You are discounting the affects of sin on the person. You can't just stop sinning because you have new understanding. It's why Paul said he did what he didn't want to do (sin) and he didn't do (obey) what he wanted to do. It's like Peter, who believed Jesus was the Christ but still denied Him and needed to repent. No one is sinless, and that's why we need to continue to repent and obey, because we know that's what God wants. We do it to please God in Christ, knowing that our imperfect obedience is acceptable because Jesus is our mediator and high priest. He no longer looks at us as a judge looking at a criminal who broke the law, but He looks at us like a Father.
If your goal is to be in a heavenly society, which is what the requirements of commandments are a blueprint for, you naturally keep the commandments because you understand that lying, stealing, and hoarding destroy that society. If you claim to have faith but continue to live in corruption, your belief is completely empty.
quote:Not at all. You just don't understand Christian teaching because you are blinded by your sin, so you think we believe that works aren't important and other nonsense.
You are using the word "belief" as a magic brush to get into a society whose laws you refuse to live by. That is a delusion.
re: A prayer to SATAN.
Posted by FooManChoo on 10/17/26 at 6:34 pm to 3down10
quote:Nope, based on God's word, which you reject.
The truth is that you are dividing those laws based entirely on your own bias
quote:Those were applications of the 10 commandments to the nation of Israel, either in the civil society for keeping law and order in the theonomic kingdom, or in the worship and cultural separation of Israel in the midst of idolatrous nations that separated them.
The rules about stoning neighbors, planting crops, and wearing mixed fabrics were all just the cultural laws of men from a specific time period. They are completely separate from the basic commandments.
quote:Speaking from strictly a human perspective, you are wrong. You can have a peaceful society with a totalitarian regime that allows for targeted rape, murder, theft, and so on.
The basic commandments are universal moral laws that stand on their own logical merit. They are the fundamental requirements for any peaceful society to exist. You cannot have a society without theft if you allow people to remain thieves.
But you're right that the 10 commandments are fundamental and represent the moral law of God. That's what Christians have said for a very, very long time.
Do you keep the Sabbath in any form or fashion? Just curious if you think that's something to continue to keep. I do, but wondering about you.
quote:That's not what He said, though. And, it goes against what He said. He said to come to Him for rest, not to look to Him as an example of how you need to work hard to keep the commandments. He said His yoke is easy. His yoke is not mere understanding that you need to obey, because that much existed in the Old Testament.
When Jesus said his burden is light, he meant that true understanding makes keeping those basic moral laws natural.
Again, if your position is correct, Jesus was absolutely unnecessary. He didn't need to live, He didn't need to obey, He didn't need to die, and He didn't need to rise from the dead. If all we need to do is obey the law, then we could have kept Moses and rejected Jesus. But that's what the Pharisees did.
No, Jesus' burden is light because He saves sinners who have no hope of salvation through mere obedience, and who have no rescue from the endless sacrifices. He came to provide rest and relief by resting in Him by faith. Your version of Jesus provides no rest at all, and He's completely unnecessary.
quote:It's a burden because the law only condemns. It shows how we cannot keep it. it's why the sacrifices existed, to show that we are sinners and we need something or someone else to intervene on our behalf for forgiveness. God is holy, and He cannot even look upon sin. You would have Him not just look upon sin, but to forgive it arbitrarily.
It's also said in the OT, which you disagreed with me on - understanding have all those who keep the commandments. It is only a heavy burden if a person's heart is hard and they are desperately looking for a loophole to avoid being a good person.
quote:There is no spiritually clean society with the existence of sin, even if I disregard your flawed analogy that you keep using over and over again.
You claim I am laying burdens on people, but I am just pointing out the basic physics of a clean society.
God demands perfection, and no one can provide that except Jesus.
quote:See above and stop lying. True faith will come with repentance of sin.
You are the one selling a cheap illusion. You tell people they can carry their greed and dishonesty all the way into heaven just by hiding behind Paul's letters and a blood sacrifice. That is not a light burden. It is just a license to remain corrupt.
You need to repent and trust in Jesus for the forgiveness of your sins, including and especially your works-based, pantheistic idolatry.
re: A prayer to SATAN.
Posted by FooManChoo on 10/17/26 at 6:21 pm to 3down10
quote::lol: did you just gloss right over what I said?
You just proved my point completely. You admitted that if that rich man walked into your church, you would tell him to say a prayer and "believe in Jesus for forgiveness", but you still wouldn't tell him to sell his things and give to the poor. You would let him keep his idols and his wealth, completely contradicting what Jesus actually demanded of him. You are substituting physical obedience with a mental exercise.
I said he would be required to repent of his sin, including his idolatry of his wealth. Did you miss that part? Here, I'll quote it for you in case you missed it:
"I would tell him to repent of his sins, including his idolatry, and believe in Jesus for forgiveness."
Now that we've cleared that up, please stop lying about me. You keep claiming that I do not care about repentance and obedience. That's false. I do, because God cares about that. I'm telling you that obedience cannot merit salvation, so obedience is a fruit of salvation gained by Christ through faith in Him, not by our good works (obedience). We respond to what Christ has done with obedience and repentance out of thankfulness for what He has done for us, not to merit something on our own.
quote:It wasn't a mind game. He knew that the rich man wasn't interested in giving up his wealth. He noted that by his first question: what must he do to be saved. The man even betrayed his legalism in his response, that he had kept all of the law from his birth. He thought he had obeyed perfectly, which he hadn't, so Jesus took him to the first commandment.
Furthermore, saying Jesus wanted him to keep the law "perfectly" to show him he couldn't do it is a desperate invention to protect your loophole. Jesus didn't play mind games. When the man asked what he must do to inherit eternal life, Jesus told him to keep the commandments and sell his possessions.
Do you even recognize the correlation between what Jesus commanded and the first commandment? The first commandment is about not being an idol worshiper, and the man didn't follow Jesus because he loved his money too much. That was idolatry.
So no, that's not some invention to protect a loophole. Jesus even explained it in the following verses by saying that the rich trust in their wealth. That's what idolatry is. You are the blind one who can't see it.
quote:OK, it's time to show you exactly where you are wrong about Paul. You continue to claim that Paul hated the law, hated obedience, and thought it was fine and dandy to keep on sinning without consequence. You are wrong, and you are ignorant. I'll try to help you out. Here are just a few verses that prove my point:
You claim obedience is just the "fruit" of salvation rather than a requirement, which is exactly how your Pauline cult allows people to keep lying, stealing, and hoarding wealth while checking a box that says "saved." You are the one who looks in the mirror and sees your own fake righteousness. I look past your book, past your idols, and your cheap theological bypass, and that upsets you.
1 Corinthians 6:9-10: “Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.”
Galatians 5:19-21: “Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.”
Ephesians 5:3-5 "But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you, as is fitting for saints; neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God."
Romans 6:1-2: "What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?"
quote:Jesus washes away our sins, and once we die, we are glorified, and all sinful corruption is removed from our souls so that we can stand before God clean, clothed in Christ's righteousness. That's only if you are washed clean by Jesus' blood for the forgiveness of sins.
You can not be a thief and live in a society without theft. No matter how much you want to pretend blood and everything else, that is the reality.
You deny that God is just and holy. You believe He is fine with sin as long as you just try harder next time. He just ignores what came before. That is not a just and holy god. That is a capricious god who allows sinful creatures in its presence.
re: A prayer to SATAN.
Posted by FooManChoo on 10/17/26 at 6:07 pm to 3down10
quote:It's not manipulation to read something in it's larger context. You assume the texts are not supposed to be read together and I assume they are. That's why you assume a contradiction and I assume a clarification. You don't deny this, because you recognize that you can look at the surrounding context to clear up the meaning of a difficult text, and you don't deny (that I am aware of, at least) that you can look at the Old Testament to understand the New Testament and vice versa, since they work together. I just recognize that the context extends further, to the rest of the New Testament. And that's where you arbitrarily deny certain books that you don't like.
You just admitted exactly what I said you do. Saying you have to "read one verse in light of another" to make a discrepancy disappear is the literal definition of manipulating a text to suit your will. You are forcing the words to bend so your concrete doesn't crack.
quote:The requirements of perfect obedience are fulfilled in Jesus, so we no longer need to strive to obey them perfectly to merit salvation. We could never do that in the first place, which is why the sacrificial system was put in place, because it was to show that shedding of blood was necessary for sin-guilt. You couldn't just do better next time to avoid your guilt
And your "fulfilled" argument is the ultimate 1+1=3 contradiction. You claim the law isn't abolished, yet you don't keep it. You claim it is active, yet you wear mixed fabrics, eat what you want, and ignore the commandments because a blood sacrifice "fulfilled" it.
We still are supposed to obey the 10 commandments because they reflect the moral character of God which is perfect, pure, and unchanging. It's why Jesus said to obey if you love Him, because that reflects His character as God. To do what He does is a sign of love.
What it does not mean is that we can save ourselves through obedience.
quote:See above. You misunderstand the Bible, so no wonder you don't understand what I'm saying. You reject the Bible but then claim that we are supposed to keep the commandments that are revealed in the Bible. You are the one contradicting yourself.
You are double-minded. You scream that the law stands just so you can use it to condemn a gay man, but then you scream the law is fulfilled the second someone points out that you are violating it yourself.
quote:See above. You reject God's standard. He requires perfect obedience to be with Him, and no one can obey perfectly except Jesus. It's why we must be grafted into Christ so that his righteousness becomes our own. You have none in yourself, and as long as you reject Jesus' sacrifice for the remission of sins, you will have to stand before God and explain why you broke His law, and He will cast you into outer darkness.
That isn't God's standard, it is your own hypocritical will.
re: A prayer to SATAN.
Posted by FooManChoo on 10/17/26 at 5:46 pm to 3down10
quote:Jesus is God, not a replacement for God. God is trinity, so to worship the Father is to worship God; to worship the Son is to worship God, and to worship the Spirit is to worship God.
The first step is to accept an idol and replacement for God.
quote:Jesus in His human nature is subordinate to the Father, but He shares one divine nature with the Father.
Jesus said the father is much greater than he was. I've explained the father-son relationship to you multiple times.
re: A prayer to SATAN.
Posted by FooManChoo on 10/17/26 at 5:46 pm to 3down10
quote:Um, no. I'm not the one claiming that God has provided additional revelation in the last 2,000 years. You are the one claiming you had a revelational experience with God.
Seems more like it occurs as you will it.
quote:There are no contradictions. If you read one verse in light of another, the "contradiction" can be explained away.
"Progressive revelation" is just the convenient excuse you use to explain away the contradictions in your own book. It allows you to pretend God changed his mind, so you can ignore the laws you don't like while still weaponizing the ones you do. You aren't following progressive revelation; you are just rewriting God in your own image.
A contradiction is a discrepancy that cannot be rationally explained; it's speaking against itself, like 1+1=2, and 1+1=3. There is no way to reconcile that.
God didn't change His mind. He fulfilled the law in Jesus, like Jesus said. He didn't come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it. You think Jesus came to do neither, but that you can pretend Jesus never existed and be all good.
re: A prayer to SATAN.
Posted by FooManChoo on 10/17/26 at 5:42 pm to 3down10
quote:He also commanded faith/belief over and over again. People went away justified by their belief in Jesus.
Because what Jesus actually says is to keep the commandments, over and over.
re: A prayer to SATAN.
Posted by FooManChoo on 10/17/26 at 5:40 pm to 3down10
quote:He was one, and he repented. He also persecuted Christians, and he repented of that, too.
Paul is a pharisee, that's why you quote him so much
I quote him because his words are Scripture--they are God-breathed.
quote:I do not. That was a civil law, and I do not belong to the civil nation of Israel.
Do you also stone your neighbor and think the same if they don't plant their crops right?
quote:I do not. That was a ceremonial law, fulfilled in Christ.
Do you also stone your neighbor for wearing mixed fabrics? I bet you wear mixed fabrics yourself.
quote:You are the one laying burdens on people that no one can keep. Jesus said His burden is light. If all He meant was the Old Testament law, then His burden wasn't light at all
You're citing the laws of men and claiming it's the laws of God to burden and judge someone.
quote:You must repent for your idolatry, to start with.
He has nothing to repent for unless he's done things like adultery or other spiritual laws.
re: A prayer to SATAN.
Posted by FooManChoo on 10/17/26 at 5:36 pm to 3down10
quote:God got it done as He wanted to. Progressive revelation occurs as God wills it.
You mean God couldn't get it done in the same chapter so he needed multiple books from multiple authors to get across simple concepts?
Popular
31
