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re: Ranking the SEC schools academically?
Posted on 1/3/13 at 3:16 pm to Govt Tide
Posted on 1/3/13 at 3:16 pm to Govt Tide
quote:
I always love that qualifier "I have heard". Forgets facts or hard data, I guess that's all that's needed to make something the gospel truth
That is from talking to several HS Guidance Counselors when discussing UA va AU. Alabama has had a huge push to increase enrollment, as a result they have opened the floodgates on HS enrollment. In order not to slip in the ratings, they have offered much more money to the better students and have performed some creative accounting on "special enrollment students". Each school reports these numbers based on their own criteria, so there is nothing unethical with what they are doing. I was also told that these special enrollment students do not even have to meet the Universities minimum requirements. I am sure Bama will tighten it up once their enrollment goals are met.
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Posted on 1/3/13 at 3:48 pm to Irons Puppet
What exactly do you mean by "special enrollment students"?
The only thing I can find is this:
LINK
So it's not like this is some way that UA concocted to increase enrollment while keeping poorly qualified students off the books so to speak. It would not surprise me to find that the GPA/ACT scores of these students are not included in the average for incoming freshmen because these are people who have been out of school for 2 or more years. I don't have stats but I would be surprised if this group is even large enough compared to the 6,400 freshmen class to significantly affect the average ACT score.
The only thing I can find is this:
quote:
Special student. Special student enrollment is a nondegree status. Special students may apply for admission as degree-seeking students by requesting a change of status and by meeting regular admission requirements. Students who have never enrolled in college are generally expected to have been out of high school for two or more years before enrollment at the University as special students. Students who are currently on academic probation or under academic suspension imposed by another college and who have not been enrolled in school for two years may be admitted with special permission. Enrollment in specific courses will be on a space-available basis. If a course has prerequisites, permission must be granted by the instructor before enrollment in the course. To continue as a special student beyond one academic year of continuous enrollment, after a break in enrollment, or beyond 12 semester hours of earned credit, permission must be granted by the dean of the school or college in which the special student is enrolled.
LINK
So it's not like this is some way that UA concocted to increase enrollment while keeping poorly qualified students off the books so to speak. It would not surprise me to find that the GPA/ACT scores of these students are not included in the average for incoming freshmen because these are people who have been out of school for 2 or more years. I don't have stats but I would be surprised if this group is even large enough compared to the 6,400 freshmen class to significantly affect the average ACT score.
This post was edited on 1/3/13 at 4:09 pm
Posted on 1/3/13 at 3:51 pm to 15sammy34
quote:
I wouldn't trust the guy that told me what I posted previously on many topics, but academics at Alabama is one of them. Alabama is a good school, and you won't hear me argue with that unless I'm just trying to get a rise out of someone. I took his word as a UA graduate, an involved alumni, and an educator in the state.
Also, I feel like I've read that the two schools count their incoming class average test scores differently, but I'm having trouble finding the link on my phone. I'll try to remember to look it up when I get to a computer later.
That is what I have heard. The acceptance rate at UA is lower, but that is because students in Alabama know not to apply to AU unless you have a certain ACT.
Posted on 1/3/13 at 3:58 pm to Irons Puppet
quote:
The acceptance rate at UA is lower, but that is because students in Alabama know not to apply to AU unless you have a certain ACT.
That may be part of the reason but it's also due to the fact that Alabama has advertised and recruited extensively out of state driving up the number of out of state applicants.
Posted on 1/3/13 at 4:03 pm to gatormed
Offseason. Frick
Posted on 1/3/13 at 4:03 pm to sarc
quote:
That may be part of the reason but it's also due to the fact that Alabama has advertised and recruited extensively out of state driving up the number of out of state applicants.
Instate numbers do not support the expansion of enrollment that Whitt has set as a goal. The PACT Program has not kept up with the cost of tuition in AL and there is not a Lottery. More and more kids are going to schools that offer the money or staying close to home.
Posted on 1/3/13 at 4:04 pm to rolltide06
Let's all be honest for a minute: There probably aren't too many differences in your more popular majors from school to school.
A business student at AU could do just as well at ATM.
A business student at AU could do just as well at ATM.
Posted on 1/3/13 at 4:11 pm to sarc
quote:
The only thing I can find is this: quote:Special student. Special student enrollment is a nondegree status. Special students may apply for admission as degree-seeking students by requesting a change of status and by meeting regular admission requirements. Students who have never enrolled in college are generally expected to have been out of high school for two or more years before enrollment at the University as special students. Students who are currently on academic probation or under academic suspension imposed by another college and who have not been enrolled in school for two years may be admitted with special permission. Enrollment in specific courses will be on a space-available basis. If a course has prerequisites, permission must be granted by the instructor before enrollment in the course. To continue as a special student beyond one academic year of continuous enrollment, after a break in enrollment, or beyond 12 semester hours of earned credit, permission must be granted by the dean of the school or college in which the special student is enrolled.
Sounds to me like Cam Newton would have qualified under the "special student" clause judging from one of the descriptions of students that meet the criteria.
Posted on 1/3/13 at 4:34 pm to sarc
Special student. Special student enrollment is a nondegree status. Special students may apply for admission as degree-seeking students by requesting a change of status and by meeting regular admission requirements. Students who have never enrolled in college are generally expected to have been out of high school for two or more years before enrollment at the University as special students.
This is what I have been told that they are making exception to with recent HS Graduates. In the past it has be Shelton State that filled the void, but they can not keep up with those numbers now.
This is what I have been told that they are making exception to with recent HS Graduates. In the past it has be Shelton State that filled the void, but they can not keep up with those numbers now.
Posted on 1/3/13 at 4:49 pm to Irons Puppet
I'd like to see some evidence to support that. I read that quote to mean that, in general, students have to be out of high school for 2 years (an exception being someone out of high school for 18 months). You're saying they are basically disregarding the entire purpose of this designation in order to boost enrollment by bringing in recent HS graduates who don't meet normal enrollment requiremnts.
I just don't believe that such a measure would be necessary to increase enrollment. This is from Sept. 2011:
LINK
With such an increase in applicants, it seems unlikely that UA would be unable to meet enrollment goals with applicants meeting minimum enrollment requirements.
I just don't believe that such a measure would be necessary to increase enrollment. This is from Sept. 2011:
quote:
The freshman class was drawn from a record 22,136 applicants, up over 200 percent since fall 2002. UA has become significantly more selective with 53 percent of applicants admitted for fall 2011, down from 85 percent in 2002.
LINK
With such an increase in applicants, it seems unlikely that UA would be unable to meet enrollment goals with applicants meeting minimum enrollment requirements.
Posted on 1/3/13 at 6:03 pm to sarc
LSU has many things going for them their Law School is strong and they growing in research too and are in the 100 in engineering too.
Posted on 1/3/13 at 6:39 pm to sarc
quote:
quote:The freshman class was drawn from a record 22,136 applicants, up over 200 percent since fall 2002. UA has become significantly more selective with 53 percent of applicants admitted for fall 2011, down from 85 percent in 2002.
That is my point. Of those 22,136 applicants, how many met the minimum qualifications ? Every kid who is a bammer football fan will pay their $50 application fee.
Posted on 1/3/13 at 6:45 pm to JDM1992
It's amazing how both Alabama and Auburn are MUCH better schools than they get credit. Both could be AAU schools.
Posted on 1/3/13 at 6:48 pm to aggressor
TAMU is a great school no doubt. But the law school they just acquired is kinda' meh, and the Med school has no national reputation at all.
UT Southwestern and Baylor in Houston are far far beyond TAMU's med school. Not even close
UT Southwestern and Baylor in Houston are far far beyond TAMU's med school. Not even close
Posted on 1/3/13 at 6:50 pm to DocHog
quote:
TAMU is a great school no doubt. But the law school they just acquired is kinda' meh, and the Med school has no national reputation at all.
UT Southwestern and Baylor in Houston are far far beyond TAMU's med school. Not even close
Oh shite, you done it now. Now they're about to bash Arkansas
Posted on 1/3/13 at 6:50 pm to Irons Puppet
quote:
That is my point. Of those 22,136 applicants, how many met the minimum qualifications ? Every kid who is a bammer football fan will pay their $50 application fee.
Damn that's a lot.
Posted on 1/3/13 at 6:52 pm to DocHog
quote:
and the Med school has no national reputation at all.
Meh. #83. Not terrible.
The law school is a new acquisition, so it's gonna take some time to get it up and going.
Posted on 1/3/13 at 6:52 pm to KaiserSoze99
This post was edited on 2/15/13 at 1:53 pm
Posted on 1/3/13 at 6:53 pm to gatormed
Why don't you rate them by earnings potential? Thay would be a much better indicator or relevance...
Posted on 1/3/13 at 6:53 pm to Irons Puppet
quote:
That is my point. Of those 22,136 applicants, how many met the minimum qualifications ? Every kid who is a bammer football fan will pay their $50 application fee
That's such a weak arguement. I could say the exact same thing about Auburn, and like you, I would have nothing but guesswork to back it up with.
I'm sure the number of applicants does go up when the football program is doing well due to increased exposure but those applicants aren't limited to the unqualified. Out of state applicants and enrollment is largely driving the growth and those students are much less likely to be Bama fans. As you and others have stated, Bama has made a concerted effort to nationally recruit scholastic standouts, but you won't accept that as causing an increase in average ACT scores. No, it has to be Bama fudging the numbers.
This post was edited on 1/3/13 at 6:57 pm
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