Started By
Message
re: Mizzou. WTF....you screwed that swimmer
Posted on 1/26/14 at 11:07 pm to Cheese Grits
Posted on 1/26/14 at 11:07 pm to Cheese Grits
quote:
Read what is written. It may be one thing when she was alive, but the same standard can not be said after she was no longer alive. Why is this so hard to understand?
quote:
Once she is gone, a friend would go to the parents so the parents get closure.
cheese, these are your opinions, and your positions. Good-hearted and well-intentioned people can look at a situation and come up with completely different courses of action - this does not mean either are wrong. He did not handle it as you would have. But that does not make him bad or wrong, just different.
Furthermore, right now we only have his comments to espn to consider. They had an agenda with this story, by most peoples' definition. Let more facts come into knowledge before judging what he did, or didn't do, and why. The argument, in absence of additional information, has become circular and never-ending.
0
Posted on 1/26/14 at 11:07 pm to Cheese Grits
So nearly the same thing as what Woodland did? Except he didn't finish the priest off with a bat.
Posted on 1/26/14 at 11:16 pm to reedus23
quote:
So nearly the same thing as what Woodland did?
I did not read where Woodland took such a course of action. Nobody went to the hospital and nobody went to jail. Does not sound like much of a confrontation. Sounds like it was more like a pillow fight.
Posted on 1/26/14 at 11:20 pm to Cheese Grits
Meh. Easy to say on the internet. Bottom line, you both did the same thing, just to differing degrees. Enough said.
Posted on 1/26/14 at 11:27 pm to Bogie00
quote:
I could have elaborated, but felt it would fall on deaf ears.
Yep. I think the only thing people can agree on is that this was a tragedy. And that ESPiN had an agenda.
Posted on 1/26/14 at 11:41 pm to reedus23
quote:
Meh. Easy to say on the internet.
No, the person went to jail for a decade and died shortly after. I know pretty well what I would do if placed in such a situation because I have been there and done that. I have pretty low tolerance for predators.
Posted on 1/27/14 at 7:03 am to Cheese Grits
quote:
It is f*cking paperwork!
And the rules for what a person can sign under an involuntary commitment are just rules.
You're all over the map.
Posted on 1/27/14 at 9:10 am to the808bass
quote:
You're all over the map.
Here is the article from todays MU paper LINK
excerpts :
Still, Courey and Menu said they felt their daughter’s condition had slipped through the cracks.
“I don’t want to say the intentions were bad, but something wasn’t right,” Menu said.
“Our trust was 100 percent into the school, and we feel like we’d be cheated,” Courey said.
Menu Courey’s parents said they were never told that signing the form meant relinquishing their daughter's scholarship.
“We were all told that this was best for her and returning in the fall was a sure thing,” Menu said. “We felt like the information that was really critical was not communicated.”
This is not some random folks reading what has been presented in the news, but comments from the actual parents. It has been posted often that MU did not handle this in the best possible way by several on here and now the parents direct quotes seem to verify this part of the equation. This is not a ESPN article but one written from inside the MU community - and MU is supposed to have a top journalism school correct?
Posted on 1/27/14 at 9:31 am to Cheese Grits
From the Columbia Daily Tribune comes these excerpts from saturday :
I do question the athletic department's interest in proactively policing its athletes when the results could be unpleasant. Nothing ever seems to happen until the media reports an incident. It seems reasonable to think coaches and support personnel who are around athletes every day would hear things before random reporters do.
The benefit of the doubt was forfeited four years ago. Coach Mike Anderson and other athletic department officials were informed by a tutor in January 2010 that she was raped by basketball player Mike Dixon. After initially reporting the matter to campus police, the tutor decided against pressing charges, but a nurse who examined her concluded force was involved. Still, Alden and Anderson allowed Dixon to stay on the team. He wasn't required to part ways with the university until the ugly details of that police report hit the media in November 2012 after he had been accused of another sexual assault.
Also, in the recent book "The System," there is a chapter about former running back Derrick Washington's sexual assault of a tutor. The book accused Missouri of being too lax in preventing sex between athletes and tutors in its Total Person Program.
While Mizzou may be in the media glare right now, it is probably an issue at most any college or university where sports is a big part of the business decisions. Slive and others have tried to address tougher drug standards in the SEC for the past several seasons and more in line with the toughest drug policies (Georgia and Kentucky) in an effort to clean things up. While this happened at Mizzou, my guess is it will hit the conference agenda in upcoming meetings.
Kentucky has one of the strictest alcohol policies in the SEC and most of it was due to the kids that were killed after the UK vs UT football games several years ago. If more of these assault issues come to light you can bet insurance carriers will start using it as a way to alter liability coverage policies. Money (or fear of losing it) usually means change will come.
I do question the athletic department's interest in proactively policing its athletes when the results could be unpleasant. Nothing ever seems to happen until the media reports an incident. It seems reasonable to think coaches and support personnel who are around athletes every day would hear things before random reporters do.
The benefit of the doubt was forfeited four years ago. Coach Mike Anderson and other athletic department officials were informed by a tutor in January 2010 that she was raped by basketball player Mike Dixon. After initially reporting the matter to campus police, the tutor decided against pressing charges, but a nurse who examined her concluded force was involved. Still, Alden and Anderson allowed Dixon to stay on the team. He wasn't required to part ways with the university until the ugly details of that police report hit the media in November 2012 after he had been accused of another sexual assault.
Also, in the recent book "The System," there is a chapter about former running back Derrick Washington's sexual assault of a tutor. The book accused Missouri of being too lax in preventing sex between athletes and tutors in its Total Person Program.
While Mizzou may be in the media glare right now, it is probably an issue at most any college or university where sports is a big part of the business decisions. Slive and others have tried to address tougher drug standards in the SEC for the past several seasons and more in line with the toughest drug policies (Georgia and Kentucky) in an effort to clean things up. While this happened at Mizzou, my guess is it will hit the conference agenda in upcoming meetings.
Kentucky has one of the strictest alcohol policies in the SEC and most of it was due to the kids that were killed after the UK vs UT football games several years ago. If more of these assault issues come to light you can bet insurance carriers will start using it as a way to alter liability coverage policies. Money (or fear of losing it) usually means change will come.
Posted on 1/27/14 at 9:55 am to Cheese Grits
Grits, the post immediately above is a different issue than what you were talking about before. I would tend to agree with most of the points in this post and article. My position all along has been that the University acted within acceptable standards when it comes to Sasha's case, though some may have moral objections to how they acted. What does need to be addressed is the bigger picture of whether enough is being done to police athletes or to eliminate a culture that says it's ok to assault women. On this topic, yes, I think Mizzou needs to take a closer look. Yes, it probably happens at all universities, but I'm worried about Mizzou and hope that they look at it closely. Sasha. Dixon. Dixon. Washington. Tutors. Just too many incidents in too short a time for me to just say, well crime happens.
Posted on 1/27/14 at 1:17 pm to reedus23
quote:
I would tend to agree with most of the points in this post and article.
I think we have common ground on that article
quote:
What does need to be addressed is the bigger picture of whether enough is being done to police athletes or to eliminate a culture that says it's ok to assault women.
And on this point I go back to the Duke Lacrosse incident. They focused on the single incident while uncovering decades of issues that everybody on campus and in town already knew but Duke kept failing to address. By not being more proactive Duke - the institution - allowed the culture to gain footing and grow. If this was institutional bloat or intentional we will never know but it was the seeding cause. Duke may be different as the "private" culture of "boys will be boys" may differ from the "public" culture of a state institution like Mizzou.
In the Duke case they focused just on the incident and not the previous decades and once that blew over things seem to have gone backwards and issues still exist if you talk to the locals and lower to middle folks in the Duke system. If something tragic happens again at Duke it will just repeat the cycle. If a local is harmed then it gets swept under the rug, but if something happens to one of daddies little girls it will be a sh*tstorm. It just may be endemic to "private" vs "public" schools.
quote:
though some may have moral objections to how they acted.
I think that may be part, but it could also be the contrast of common sense vs policy paths of a large institution. In this modern age folks get so carried away with a specific policy that they are unable to arrive at a common sense solution. We have bulked up AD staffs and swollen payrolls - both on the sports and fundraising side - but there seems to be less common sense and strategic thinking. If as you stated : Just too many incidents in too short a time for me to just say, well crime happens. : there is a base cause to be fixed, then in the end, this is where the focus will be best addressed. It may be long overdue on the national level and extend far beyond just the Mizzou community.
Posted on 1/28/14 at 12:44 pm to Cheese Grits
quote:
Still, Courey and Menu said they felt their daughter’s condition had slipped through the cracks
Her condition was present BEFORE she went to Mizzou. What did her parents do to make sure that she was protected while not under their care? I seem to recall that nobody at the University was informed about her problems before/upon arriving at campus.
Bottom line is a lot of people fricked up, very much including the parents.
Posted on 1/28/14 at 12:48 pm to roadhouse
Has Mizz received the death penalty yet?
Posted on 1/28/14 at 1:17 pm to roadGator
quote:
Has Mizz received the death penalty yet?
Yes.
Posted on 1/28/14 at 1:22 pm to Sarcastro
Just the bball team
Posted on 1/28/14 at 1:24 pm to Sarcastro
Q and A from mizzou regarding incident.
Q: Why didn’t the University start an investigation as soon as officials first knew about an allegation of sexual assault?
A: University of Missouri officials were not aware of any allegation of sexual assault until late 2012. (Sasha died in 2011.) In the process of gathering documents in response to Sasha’s parents’ Sunshine Law request, MU discovered a transcript of an online chat between Sasha and a crisis hotline that included a reference to an alleged sexual assault. Sasha had never reported this to University officials or requested an investigation while she was alive, and the transcript did not include the name of an assailant or any other specific information that would prompt an investigation. However, after discovering this document, the University contacted the parents and asked if they would like an investigation to take place. The parents did not respond. Therefore, at that point in time, which was after Sasha’s death, the University was unable to go forward with an investigation due to no request for an investigation and a lack of specific information. Prior to this, the only personnel who knew of Sasha’s allegations of sexual assault were health care providers who are restricted by privacy laws from discussing a patient’s conversations without the consent of the patient. ESPN acknowledges that health care providers are not required to make reports about sexual assaults without patients’ permission.
Q: Isn’t MU required to do a Title IX investigation, especially after the Columbia Daily Tribune reported in early 2012 that an assault had occurred?
A: The U.S. Department of Education’s official guidance on Title IX states, “If a school knows or reasonably should know about student-on-student harassment that creates a hostile environment, Title IX requires the school to take immediate action to eliminate the harassment, prevent its recurrence, and address its effects.” The Feb. 12, 2012 Columbia Daily Tribune article contained only these two sentences about an alleged assault: “Menu Courey also wrote in her diary months later that she was sexually assaulted at the end of her freshman year. She did not name the attacker.”
This information did not suggest that the alleged assault occurred on or near campus or in this country or Canada; nor did it indicate that any other students were involved. This is not enough information to suggest that the University “reasonably should know about student-on-student harassment that creates a hostile environment.”
Although Sasha’s parents shared this information from her journal with the Columbia Daily Tribune prior to publication of the Feb. 12, 2012 article, they never – not at that time or since – brought this information to the attention of the University or otherwise asked the University to investigate.
Q: Why is the University now turning over information to the Columbia Police Department and asking them to investigate?
A: Although Sasha’s parents still have never responded to the University’s inquiry, the ESPN story quotes them as saying that they want an investigation to be conducted. In addition, the ESPN story included names of individuals who might have relevant information regarding the alleged February 2010 assault. This was the first time that University officials had any concrete information on which to base an investigation. When the name of the man with whom Sasha had consensual sex and at whose residence the alleged assault occurred was revealed, the University checked its records and determined that the man had an off-campus address. Accordingly, the information was referred to the appropriate law enforcement officials, the Columbia Police Department.
Q: Why was Sasha taken off the swim team?
A: Sasha was never “taken off” the swim team. From the time she came to MU in 2009 until Sasha, in consultation with her parents, approved submission of a withdrawal form in the spring of 2011, she remained a team member and was receiving a scholarship. Sasha’s scholarship was not cancelled even upon her withdrawal from classes, and she was entered into the financial aid system for summer school on May 3, 2011. Sasha remained enrolled in fall semester classes until her death.
Specific questions have been raised regarding Sasha’s withdrawal from classes in spring of 2011. Sasha had been a patient at University Hospital following her suicide attempt. Based on her parents’ decision to move her to an inpatient mental health care facility in Kansas City, an athletics department academic advisor suggested, to protect Sasha’s academic record, that Sasha sign a form of withdrawal from classes while still in Columbia, to be used only if it became evident that Sasha would not return to school that semester. Sasha and her parents agreed. Sasha signed and dated the form April 6, 2011. Sasha’s parents then decided to move Sasha from Kansas City to a facility in Boston. At this time the unlikelihood of her return to school that semester was discussed, and Sasha and her family made the decision to have the withdrawal form submitted. The appropriate University official signed it on April 19, 2011.
Q: Are you concerned about sexual assaults involving students?
A: The University’s top priority is the safety and security of its students. Of course, we are concerned about alleged sexual assaults, and the University takes appropriate action to address such allegations. The first action is to make certain that the alleged victim is provided with all needed assistance. The University’s Relationship and Sexual Violence Prevention Center’s (RSVP) staff, counseling services and medical personnel are on-call 24 hours a day to assist victims in a comprehensive way. The next action step is to ascertain the wishes of the alleged victim about the handling of the alleged assault. Consistent with Title IX, the University considers whether the alleged victim wishes to maintain confidentiality before determining whether to proceed with an investigation. Although an investigation may be necessary in some situations regardless of the wishes of the victim, the victim’s wishes are respected to the extent consistent with the University’s obligation to provide a safe environment. In addition, MUPD personnel inform the community through a Clery release if a threat to the university community exists.
Q: How do you feel about the investigation President Wolfe is calling for?
A: We agree with President Wolfe that the safety and security of our students is our most important priority. While we feel that University of Missouri personnel did everything possible considering the amount of information available at the time to help Sasha Menu Courey, we support a full review of the university’s policies and procedures and look forward to any potential improvements that might be identified.
Q: Why didn’t the University start an investigation as soon as officials first knew about an allegation of sexual assault?
A: University of Missouri officials were not aware of any allegation of sexual assault until late 2012. (Sasha died in 2011.) In the process of gathering documents in response to Sasha’s parents’ Sunshine Law request, MU discovered a transcript of an online chat between Sasha and a crisis hotline that included a reference to an alleged sexual assault. Sasha had never reported this to University officials or requested an investigation while she was alive, and the transcript did not include the name of an assailant or any other specific information that would prompt an investigation. However, after discovering this document, the University contacted the parents and asked if they would like an investigation to take place. The parents did not respond. Therefore, at that point in time, which was after Sasha’s death, the University was unable to go forward with an investigation due to no request for an investigation and a lack of specific information. Prior to this, the only personnel who knew of Sasha’s allegations of sexual assault were health care providers who are restricted by privacy laws from discussing a patient’s conversations without the consent of the patient. ESPN acknowledges that health care providers are not required to make reports about sexual assaults without patients’ permission.
Q: Isn’t MU required to do a Title IX investigation, especially after the Columbia Daily Tribune reported in early 2012 that an assault had occurred?
A: The U.S. Department of Education’s official guidance on Title IX states, “If a school knows or reasonably should know about student-on-student harassment that creates a hostile environment, Title IX requires the school to take immediate action to eliminate the harassment, prevent its recurrence, and address its effects.” The Feb. 12, 2012 Columbia Daily Tribune article contained only these two sentences about an alleged assault: “Menu Courey also wrote in her diary months later that she was sexually assaulted at the end of her freshman year. She did not name the attacker.”
This information did not suggest that the alleged assault occurred on or near campus or in this country or Canada; nor did it indicate that any other students were involved. This is not enough information to suggest that the University “reasonably should know about student-on-student harassment that creates a hostile environment.”
Although Sasha’s parents shared this information from her journal with the Columbia Daily Tribune prior to publication of the Feb. 12, 2012 article, they never – not at that time or since – brought this information to the attention of the University or otherwise asked the University to investigate.
Q: Why is the University now turning over information to the Columbia Police Department and asking them to investigate?
A: Although Sasha’s parents still have never responded to the University’s inquiry, the ESPN story quotes them as saying that they want an investigation to be conducted. In addition, the ESPN story included names of individuals who might have relevant information regarding the alleged February 2010 assault. This was the first time that University officials had any concrete information on which to base an investigation. When the name of the man with whom Sasha had consensual sex and at whose residence the alleged assault occurred was revealed, the University checked its records and determined that the man had an off-campus address. Accordingly, the information was referred to the appropriate law enforcement officials, the Columbia Police Department.
Q: Why was Sasha taken off the swim team?
A: Sasha was never “taken off” the swim team. From the time she came to MU in 2009 until Sasha, in consultation with her parents, approved submission of a withdrawal form in the spring of 2011, she remained a team member and was receiving a scholarship. Sasha’s scholarship was not cancelled even upon her withdrawal from classes, and she was entered into the financial aid system for summer school on May 3, 2011. Sasha remained enrolled in fall semester classes until her death.
Specific questions have been raised regarding Sasha’s withdrawal from classes in spring of 2011. Sasha had been a patient at University Hospital following her suicide attempt. Based on her parents’ decision to move her to an inpatient mental health care facility in Kansas City, an athletics department academic advisor suggested, to protect Sasha’s academic record, that Sasha sign a form of withdrawal from classes while still in Columbia, to be used only if it became evident that Sasha would not return to school that semester. Sasha and her parents agreed. Sasha signed and dated the form April 6, 2011. Sasha’s parents then decided to move Sasha from Kansas City to a facility in Boston. At this time the unlikelihood of her return to school that semester was discussed, and Sasha and her family made the decision to have the withdrawal form submitted. The appropriate University official signed it on April 19, 2011.
Q: Are you concerned about sexual assaults involving students?
A: The University’s top priority is the safety and security of its students. Of course, we are concerned about alleged sexual assaults, and the University takes appropriate action to address such allegations. The first action is to make certain that the alleged victim is provided with all needed assistance. The University’s Relationship and Sexual Violence Prevention Center’s (RSVP) staff, counseling services and medical personnel are on-call 24 hours a day to assist victims in a comprehensive way. The next action step is to ascertain the wishes of the alleged victim about the handling of the alleged assault. Consistent with Title IX, the University considers whether the alleged victim wishes to maintain confidentiality before determining whether to proceed with an investigation. Although an investigation may be necessary in some situations regardless of the wishes of the victim, the victim’s wishes are respected to the extent consistent with the University’s obligation to provide a safe environment. In addition, MUPD personnel inform the community through a Clery release if a threat to the university community exists.
Q: How do you feel about the investigation President Wolfe is calling for?
A: We agree with President Wolfe that the safety and security of our students is our most important priority. While we feel that University of Missouri personnel did everything possible considering the amount of information available at the time to help Sasha Menu Courey, we support a full review of the university’s policies and procedures and look forward to any potential improvements that might be identified.
Posted on 1/28/14 at 3:42 pm to MizzouTiger4Life
quote:
MizzouTiger4Life
TL;DR
Obviously a cover-up
Posted on 1/28/14 at 4:54 pm to roadhouse
Posted on 1/28/14 at 6:32 pm to Cheese Grits
CNN picked it up yesterday. If there is heat, Woodland, Moye and Anderson would be the places to start. I'm sure CPD will be talking to all of them.
Page 9 of 9
Popular
Back to top
Follow SECRant for SEC Football News