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re: Bama's Dee Milliner Potential 2013 #1 Overall Pick?
Posted on 3/4/13 at 7:30 pm to TreyAnastasio
Posted on 3/4/13 at 7:30 pm to TreyAnastasio
quote:
Saban was the hc at MSU when belecheck and staff were not retained when the team moved to Baltimore. His last year, we had a real solid team.
Hindsight (& A Football Life on NFL Network) says that entire staff was stacked but my post was moreso to the point of Saban developed his technique in the NFL while coaching with Cleveland
ETA: But I see that my post reflects that he was fired with the rest of the staff
This post was edited on 3/4/13 at 7:33 pm
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Posted on 3/4/13 at 7:32 pm to thunderbird1100
quote:
Milliner will struggle at times
Milliner rarely struggled at all the last two years.
quote:
Claiborne can make big plays on the ball where as Milliner rarely does.
Milliner made enough plays. "Rarely" is not the word you are looking for.
Posted on 3/4/13 at 7:32 pm to undecided
quote:
You mean the Browns team that he and the rest of the staff was fired from? Also, is there another CFB or NFL team that uses this?
Saban's last year with the Browns was 1994. That team went 11-5 and had one of the best defenses in the league. That staff's final year in Cleveland was 1995.
This post was edited on 3/4/13 at 7:33 pm
Posted on 3/4/13 at 7:34 pm to undecided
quote:
You mean the Browns team that he and the rest of the staff was fired from? Also, is there another CFB or NFL team that uses this? Serious question because I'm not aware of any
You really are clueless.
Cleveland Browns:
1990, no Nick Saban; Browns ranked 28th, dead last in the NFL for defense
1991, Nick Saban hired as DC; Browns defense ranks 14th in the NFL
1992, Browns defense ranks 10th
1993, Browns defense ranks 17th
1994, Browns defense ranks 1st
1995, Nick Saban hired at Michigan State as HC
Posted on 3/4/13 at 7:36 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
Saban's last year with the Browns was 1994. That team went 11-5 and had one of the best defenses in the league. That staff's final year in Cleveland was 1995.
You are correct but that doesn't change the fact no one else appears to be able to use this technique but Saban and apparently he last used it in the NFL in 1994 which would seem to reflect a method that does not translate to the NFL
Posted on 3/4/13 at 7:37 pm to FlukerFlakes
How did this devolve into a debate on Saban's coaching? No one should argue this.
That said,
1. PP7
2. Mo
3. Haden
4. Milliner
That said,
1. PP7
2. Mo
3. Haden
4. Milliner
Posted on 3/4/13 at 7:39 pm to undecided
quote:
You are correct but that doesn't change the fact no one else appears to be able to use this technique but Saban and apparently he last used it in the NFL in 1994 which would seem to reflect a method that does not translate to the NFL.
But the technique worked for him while he was in Cleveland so I fail to see your point. And considering Saban is probably one of the greatest defensive minds in the history of American Football, it makes perfect sense why few other coaches are able to properly use that technique with their players.
Posted on 3/4/13 at 7:44 pm to Funky Tide 8
quote:
Milliner rarely struggled at all the last two years.
Struggling a little is still more than not. There were times where Milliner did get beat a few times in different games, he wasn't considered a pure shut down CB.
quote:
Milliner made enough plays. "Rarely" is not the word you are looking for.
There is a gigantic difference in a guy getting 6 INT in 3 years vs another getting 11 in 2 years. Especially considering the first guy got thrown at a great deal more.
% of interceptions for Milliner out of total passes defended in his 3 years = 14.6%
% of interceptions for Claiborne out of total passes defended in his 2 years = 47.8%
That is a BIG difference.
Posted on 3/4/13 at 7:45 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
But the technique worked for him while he was in Cleveland so I fail to see your point. And considering Saban is probably one of the greatest defensive minds in the history of American Football, it makes perfect sense why few other coaches are able to properly use that technique with their players.
My post that started this compared Sabans players and the technique he teaches them to the spread QB's like RG3 and Cam who have succeeded despite a long held belief that their skills and the system would not work in the NFL. Not only have they succeeded but now top QB's like Brady and Brees use elements of the spread.
Despite being almost 20 years old, Saban's technique is still only used by him (as far as I know) despite the success he's had
This post was edited on 3/4/13 at 7:47 pm
Posted on 3/4/13 at 7:49 pm to undecided
quote:
My post that started this compared Sabans players and the technique he teaches them to the spread QB's like RG3 and Cam who have succeeded despite a long held belief that their skills and the system would not work in the NFL.
This would still ring true if the NFL of today was the same as the NFL of 10 years ago. Rule changes have made passing in the NFL so much easier. Air Raid type offenses are starting to become the norm in the league because of these rule changes.
quote:
Despite being almost 20 years old, Saban's technique is still only used by him (as far as I know) despite the success he's had.
So what? It worked for him in Cleveland and it has worked for him in a number of other places he has been, most especially Alabama.
Posted on 3/4/13 at 7:51 pm to undecided
Bill Oliver used the same technique since the 60s, only difference is that he called in the tilt.
It's not his technique and it has been around for a while, he just calls it something else. South Carolina, specifically Stephon Gilmore, used it a few years ago.
It's not his technique and it has been around for a while, he just calls it something else. South Carolina, specifically Stephon Gilmore, used it a few years ago.
Posted on 3/4/13 at 7:53 pm to RollTide1987
Using that method of comparison are Claiborne's numbers better than Peterson's? just wondering because those are some damn good numbers.
Posted on 3/4/13 at 7:54 pm to KurtGoBang1
quote:
How did this devolve into a debate on Saban's coaching? No one should argue this.
Bama fan + Auburn fan = Argument
But to get back on track, Revis and Nndami possibly being on the market in addition to Rodgers-Cromartie and Aquib Talib being free agents could also affect Milliners landing spot
Posted on 3/4/13 at 7:57 pm to MagillaGuerilla
quote:I remember seeing him use it against Auburn, now that you mention it. Then Darvin Adams toasted him to the tune of 7 catches for 217 yards and 2 touchdowns (not trying to take away from the technique that Nick Saban teaches and that USC was using a couple years back). I wonder if Ellis Johnson was helping coach that, with him being Auburn's new defensive coordinator.
South Carolina, specifically Stephon Gilmore, used it a few years ago.
While we're on the subject of Stephon Gilmore: I still can't believe he was drafted in the 1st rounf, much less #10 overall.
Posted on 3/4/13 at 8:02 pm to MagillaGuerilla
quote:
Bill Oliver used the same technique since the 60s, only difference is that he called in the tilt.
It's not his technique and it has been around for a while, he just calls it something else. South Carolina, specifically Stephon Gilmore, used it a few years ago.
Al.com article on Bill and Sabans technique, right?
So if Gilmore used it at South Carolina it was likely because of Ellis Johnson who previously coached at Alabama (I think? but not with Saban; maybe with Oliver) and is now at Auburn and may be implementing a similar technique on the Plains . . . SWIDT???
Posted on 3/4/13 at 8:02 pm to undecided
quote:
spread QB's like RG3 and Cam who have succeeded despite a long held belief that their skills and the system would not work in the NFL. Not only have they succeeded but now top QB's like Brady and Brees use elements of the spread.
Uh, you realize that NFL offenses have been doing this "spread" thing for a long time right? You make it sound like the Patriots and Saints just now switched to wide-open passing offenses after they watched Cam.
Posted on 3/4/13 at 8:04 pm to TTsTowel
Gilmore was about upside, rather than being a complete product on the field. It's bump in run, so it requires you to out physical the WR initially, and Gilmore isn't exactly that.
He got his shite pushed in week one against Stephen Hill running go routes, but then he improved a lot as the season went on. Hill did the opposite and failed to do much afterwards.
He got his shite pushed in week one against Stephen Hill running go routes, but then he improved a lot as the season went on. Hill did the opposite and failed to do much afterwards.
Posted on 3/4/13 at 8:09 pm to americanrealism
quote:
Uh, you realize that NFL offenses have been doing this "spread" thing for a long time right? You make it sound like the Patriots and Saints just now switched to wide-open passing offenses after they watched Cam.
It wasn't my intention to imply this but I do think their success is tied together in a way
Go back to 2011 when Brees and Brady were fighting for NFL passing records every Sunday and Cam was lighting it up as a Rookie. Throw in the Tebow foolishness and I think this is when the change in offensive philosophy became official. RG3, Russell Wilson, and Capernick(sp) solidified it
I don't think it's permenant but its the "in" thing for now
Posted on 3/4/13 at 8:11 pm to undecided
quote:
Al.com article on Bill and Sabans technique, right?
Yep.
quote:
So if Gilmore used it at South Carolina it was likely because of Ellis Johnson who previously coached at Alabama (I think? but not with Saban; maybe with Oliver) and is now at Auburn and may be implementing a similar technique on the Plains . . . SWIDT???
It's more common than you think, I know someone who played HS ball in South Carolina and he learned the exact technique Saban now teaches. Saban was "mad" that Deion Belue didn't know it, as apparently it's taught pretty early in football.
Saban has built a near perfect scheme, wouldn't shock me to see it duplicated as his assistants branch out. FSU will probably use the shuffle under Pruitt, and he was also coached by Oliver at Bama.
I think it boils down to the amount of usage rather than it being something unique to Saban...
Posted on 3/4/13 at 8:17 pm to MagillaGuerilla
quote:
I think it boils down to the amount of usage rather than it being something unique to Saban...
This makes sense
I'll be interested to see if Johnson brings it to Auburn. I know he likes big guys in the secondary and we have some options coming in this year but Im excited to see how they use the players currently on the roster
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