re: So Russia might have just invaded the Ukraine, kind of

Just ignore him. No sense in engaging a lunatic.

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Upset about an independent country deciding it's own future for good or ill? Ukraine isn't Russia. Sure Russia thinks Ukraine is still property of Russia but that's not the reality even though it refuses to recognize that reality. Ukraine is an independent nation not a part of the USSR and Russia flat out refusing to believe that doesn't justify Russia.

Russia is upset because it has enjoyed having Ukraine as a vassal state under the past president and now Ukrainians decided they don't want to be a satellite state. They're pursuing their self-interests not acting under a broader noble cause of anti-central banking or global fascism.

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The US and Washington establishment organizations have spent billions funding Yushchenko's rise to presidency and subverting the Ukraine political scene. This is undeniable. It is fact. It's not hidden. It's available many places online if you want to know the truth.

"one part that we do know thus far is that the U.S. government, through the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID), granted millions of dollars to the Poland-America-Ukraine Cooperation Initiative (PAUCI), which is administered by the U.S.-based Freedom House. PAUCI then sent U.S. Government funds to numerous Ukrainian non-governmental organizations (NGOs). This would be bad enough and would in itself constitute meddling in the internal affairs of a sovereign nation. But, what is worse is that many of these grantee organizations in Ukraine are blatantly in favor of presidential candidate Viktor Yushchenko. LINK

Russia offered the Ukraine a financially no strings attached loan, while the EU said -- sign on the dotted line and you're now a complete puppet for western interests.

Of course Russia want's to keep the Ukraine under it's sphere of influence, it makes sense both economically and militarily. At the same time recognize that the west wants it for the same reasons.

Everyone is acting as if Russia is instigating things by sending in troops.

But it seems as if the US has been meddling in their politics for awhile trying to install favorable regimes to puppet western interests.

Why is it bad that Russia also wants a puppet?

I just think there is some major unfairness in the way this is being perceived, a good vs evil type of perception, when it's more like evil vs evil.

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Don't bother with looney toon. He's clueless. You seem to be extremely informed and I appreciate that.

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Of course you're not going to bad mouth your employer.

The US has spent billions on subverting Ukraine politics, trying to get and maintain a puppet of their own.

Excuse Russia for being upset about that and wanting a puppet to play for their team.

Eh, I do have a soul though.

Souls are a myth perpetuated by the Judeo-Christian power structure to keep you sheeple in a state of constant fear and self-loathing.



/mo'd

I feel the opposite, souls are very real.

As I sit here calmly watching A River Runs Through It at the end of this lazy sunday, I say without raising my blood pressure, frick you.

You do nothing but degrade me, which is very odd, in real life someone as ugly and scrawny as you has never once been as disrespectful and rude to me as you've been. The anonymity of the internet greatly boosts the size of your balls.

The US has spent billions on having a western controlled regime in Ukraine. That's just a fact, I don't find anything crazy about throwing that truth nugget into this dialogue.

As for puppets..

The whole reason the Ukraine protests began was because the Orange Revolution was a failure. Neither Yuschenko nor the imprisoned Tymoshenko were successful and Tymoshenko isn't seen as Ukraine's future because of some of her associations (she is very well liked though, especially right now).

And a large part of the reason the Orange Revolution failed is that Russia used Gazprom to manipulate natural gas prices and effectively control countries like Ukraine, Armenia, Belarus, and others. When a nation the Russians deem theirs behaves as the Kremlin wants prices are cut but when they are acting like they have a right to self-determination or veer away from what Putin wants prices shoot up until said nation complies. By using a private company Gazprom to manipulate prices according to Putin's foreign policy goals (not according to real price but solely on a whim), Putin has been able to destabilize governments economically and politically and bully them into submission.

If countries don't comply they risk not just the wrath of the Kremlin but the real world effects that such steep spikes and politically motivated punitive actions have on their nation's economy, people, and government and those effects can be devastating.

Not long ago Putin used Gazprom to completely shut off the pipeline that runs through Ukraine in order to assert control over Ukraine and quite literally keep Ukraine from having any natural gas in the country at all. The only reason it didn't last longer is because by cutting off that pipeline they cut off other nation's gas supplies.

EuroMaidan and AutoMaidan protesters were well aware of this as is every other Eastern European. The Ukrainians who protested and the government which finally impeached Yanukovych were sick of this outside influence because that influence keeps their country on its knees. You take a nation already impoverished and unstable and subject it to huge spikes in gas charges and you wreck it. If such measures were tried by any other country and especially if they were tried against a country as economically strong as the US or an EU nation like Germany, France, or the UK, it would rightfully seen for what it is: an act of war that threatens the very existence of a nation state subjected to it. Russia gets away with it only because the nations it tries it on are small and neither economically nor militarily strong.

Here's how wonderful and 'free of self-interest' Russia's deals are:

A few months ago Armenia was expected to sign a document with the EU. Guess what happened? Gazprom then suddenly raised prices and Armenia reversed course/changed its mind. Gazprom cut Armenia prices to $189 (had been $270). Armenia is now expected to join Putin's "Eurasian Economic Union." Know who else is on that list? Belarus (aka Europe's last dictatorship) and Ukraine (Ukraine is on it because Russia considers both Belarus and Ukraine to be satellite states).

In fact, Viktor Yanukovych who was supposed to sign documents bring Ukraine closer to the EU that had already been agreed upon - this was what the population of Ukraine wanted. Instead Yanukovycch rejected a bigger bailout from the EU for a smaller bailout from Russia and of course Gazprom promised to lower rates as a nice payoff/ deal sweetner. Of course if you don't take their off rates will skyrocket. Guess what Gazprom's doing now? That's right - they're considering raising Ukraine's rates.

In the past, when Ukraine started diversifying their natural gas imports to make them less vulnerable to Putin and Gazprom you can guess exactly what happened.