re: So Russia might have just invaded the Ukraine, kind of

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Except Ukraine loses sovereignty and independence when they accept a deal with the west. The banking machine will own them.

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They're already lost sovereignty. Their past presidents have made them nothing more than a vassal state run by oligarchs who've exploited Ukraine's national resources for their own profit and placed Ukraine in the hands of the Kremlin. Sure a western alliance means complying with monetary policies of any IMF based loans -- loans they need more of because those previous governments robbed the treasury with Russian backing -- but being tied to an IMF deal that imposes austerity measures (which I personally think are BS) is arguably far better than having no control over your country at all.

However, the sad reality is that Ukraine is a nation that is as close to a failed state as you can get. It is and has been dysfunctional since its independence and they won't be a fully functional nation free of jumping at IMF rules on budgetary issue in exchange for bailouts until they gain functionality but Russian aid comes at the price of Kremlin rule. The choice? An overly zealous banker telling you what you can and can't do in terms of your national spending (imposing austerity measures if necessary to restrain spending - assuming Ukraine actually has any real social services to cut) but otherwise allowing your country to actually rule itself versus another nation with wholly different views and ideals than the western views and ideals you aspire to owning you completely.

In a dream world they could simply become independent and free without strings but that world doesn't exist. Ukraine will have outside influence until their economy and nation-state is strong enough not to need aid.

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I actually agree with Sleepy on this one...when the great war happens, 5, 10, 30 or more years from now, I'm not sure.

But make no mistake that another world war will occur. In fact...many more will occur. Human nature.

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I don't know how a great war can occur with nuclear weapons on the table. We'd all be gone in an instant. I think that's why we fight these proxy wars and have been constantly fighting them since the end of WWII and the start of the Korean War.

Blah Blah Blah

1. Obama and his cronies need to keep their fricking mouths shut. We're not doing shite in this little dispute so why make ourselves look like hypocritical pussies in the process?

2. Who gives a frick about the money side of this? What do we have to gain from fricking Ukraine? If Western Europe wants to take on their debt, so what?

3. What exactly has Russia done wrong? Nothing. Crimea was part of Russia for a long time. Most of the people there are Russian. Russia has two airfields and two naval bases there. (I don't really understand why Russia insists on this stronghold in Crimea because they already have their own coast on the Black Sea.) Crimea is the only place "rumored" to have Russian soldiers.


At the end of the day, the Ukrainian people ousted their president that was backed by Russia, so to expect no push back from Russia would be ignorant on their part if they didn't expect it. Let Russia and Ukraine hash this out. If some EU countries get involved then tell them to have fun. This has nothing to do with us and these "stern warnings" that we're issuing is comedy gold that Putin watches when he wants a good laugh.

ETA: TL;DR See below

I disagree that we need military bases in Ukraine bad enough to get into it with Russia because we have a quite large one right across the Black Sea in Turkey. What's so

Also, what exactly has Russia done that's so egregious?

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You know a lot of people gave Romney shite for saying Russia is our biggest geopolitical enemy.

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A lot of things Romney said have come to fruiting. The man wasn't an idiot, people just didn't like the truth. Our current voting populace would rather hear feel good stories about rainbows and unicorns instead of real issues that we need to address.

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Obama can't hold a candle to Reagan when it comes to foreign policy

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Two very opposite ends of the spectrum.

Reagan was a complete badass.

Obama is not.

"derp derp Obama weak Reagan strong derrrrrr."

First, Obama is projecting weakness by not doing enough. Now he's meddling in Russian affairs?

Ukraine fought and died to gain independence from a puppet president in Yanukovich. Now Putin is sending thousands of troops to Crimea to protect Russian citizens in the Ukraine? Top frickin' lulz.

If you don't support Ukraine's independence, you better not call yourself an American.

inb4 "America shouldn't intervene"

This isn't just the United States. It's NATO, as well.

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A treaty signed in 1994 by the US and Britain could pull both countries into a war to protect Ukraine if Putin’s troops intervene.

The Budapest Memorandum was signed by Bill Clinton, John Major, Boris Yeltsin and Leonid Kuchma – the then-rulers of the USA, UK, Russia and Ukraine – as part of the denuclearization of former Soviet republics after the dissolution of the Soviet Union

Technically it means that if Russia has invaded Ukraine then it would be difficult for the US and Britain to avoid going to war.

Sir Tony Brenton, who served as British Ambassador from 2004 to 2008, said that war could be an option ‘if we do conclude the [Budapest] Memorandum is legally binding.’

It promises to protect Ukraine’s borders, in return for Ukraine giving up its nuclear weapons.

Today Kiev has demanded the agreement is activated after insisting their borders had been violated.

In response Mr Brenton said in a BBC radio interview: ‘If indeed this is a Russian invasion of Crimea and if we do conclude the [Budapest] Memorandum is legally binding then it’s very difficult to avoid the conclusion that we’re going to go to war with Russia’.

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A treaty signed in 1994 by the US and Britain could pull both countries into a war to protect Ukraine if Putin’s troops intervene.

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So many things about this are wrong

Canada has recalled its ambassador and we're now condemning this as an invasion and occupation. Russia's senators have 'requested' to Putin that he recalls the Russian Ambassador to the US because Obama hurt their feelings. According to them Obama's speech was "aggressive" and "crossed the red line and insulted the Russian people" and his words a "direct threat" to precious President Pooty-poot inalienable right to annex whatever neighboring country's land he wants when he wants:

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