| Favorite team: | TCU  |
| Location: | |
| Biography: | |
| Interests: | |
| Occupation: | |
| Number of Posts: | 343 |
| Registered on: | 7/18/2011 |
| Online Status: | Not Online |
Recent Posts
Message
re: God Has A Plan For Your Life
Posted by TCUFan on 5/8/20 at 6:04 pm
quote:
You've just pushed the problem back one step.
Where did his nature come from?
Did he choose his own nature (which means actions are morally good because God commands it) or did he not choose his own nature (Goodness isn't up to God, it's outside of his control, he's just the middleman relaying morality to humanity)?
You have just repackaged your argument with the same false dichotomy. You keep trying to treat God as if he was you. He is not. He is the Creator and you are part of his Creation. He is the uncaused cause. He is beyond time, space and matter. Goodness is God. It is not a question of creation or choosing.
quote:
It's really interesting to see these two answers back to back.
You dodged the questions. I could understand why you would want to but this is a big problem for atheists who want to be critical of Christianity on morality grounds. As an atheist with subjective morality standards, you lack a sound basis upon which to criticize Christianity on moral grounds.
quote:
To you, a subjective moral system allowing for kids to be killed sounds horrific. But an objective moral system that allows for that very same thing is ok because by definition it has to be ok.
I do believe Christian morality is best for society because God set the world a certain way. I do believe God can deliver judgment as he is the Creator. I also recognize my own limitations and God has many attributes (omnipotent, omnipotent, omniscience, etc.) that I do not have which make it ridiculous for me to think I can question his judgment.
I also recognize the many problems of subjective moral standards which you want to pretend do not exist. I have seen what has become of society in the West as we have pulled away from Christian morality and applied your subjective morality and it is not a positive.
1
re: God Has A Plan For Your Life
Posted by TCUFan on 5/8/20 at 5:38 pm
quote:
but there isnt any toothfairy santa Claus thing in the sky who knows if youve been good or bad. god is a jewish lie.
you christ-ians need to wake-up.
Christians don't believe in a man in the sky. That is a New Atheist construction.
How do you know God doesn't exist?
quote:
no one knows how anything came into being.
How do you know that? How do you know what everyone knows?
re: God Has A Plan For Your Life
Posted by TCUFan on 5/8/20 at 4:02 pm
quote:
Is an action morally good because God commands it, or does God command it because it is good?
Either objective moral values are outside of God (the latter), or based on God's own whims (the former).
Or because God is good, it naturally follows that his commands contain his goodness. You keep trying to separate God from goodness and so Christians will reject your false dichotomy.
quote:
Even if you could solve the Euthyphro dilemma, you're left with an equally uncomfortable situation. I often hear religious people worry about subjective moral systems leading to horrible behavior, like killing children or something.
Because it has happened in the 20th Century.
quote:
Thankfully that wouldn't happen in an objective moral system, just ignore the 10th plague, Noah's flood, the Battle of Jericho, the slaughter of the Midianites, the... Well, you get the point.
On what basis are you claiming any of these things are wrong? Don't forget you have subjective moral standards. You may not like that it happened but you have your subjective moral standards and others have their own. Who are you to tell them that they are wrong and you are right or vice versa?
re: God Has A Plan For Your Life
Posted by TCUFan on 5/8/20 at 3:02 pm
quote:
Yeah, kinda like Kane killed Abel? Was it reason or faith that Kane knew that rock would cave in his brothers head.
More about jealousy I would reason to believe.
Yes, people have free will to do good or to do evil.
quote:
Far as I can tell, christians were doomed from the beginning.
Everyone has pressure to sin in this life. But if Christians, fight the good fight, finish the race and keep the faith, they will not be doomed in the end. And I believe that Christians when they follow Christian morality are a positive light to the world which helps the world in this life.
quote:
It bothers me that, a million babies are killed every year in this country. I'm willing to bet that some of these murders are committed by "christian" people whom believe they are moral and if they repent of this "sin" they can continue on to "heaven". Just seems way to easy to me. It is far harder to do the right thing first time than it is to do the wrong thing and have to cover your arse.
It is easy to call yourself a Christian. It is another to live the Christian life. If someone is repeatedly sinning, they are not truly repenting. And Christianity goes further than just saying you need to refrain from transgressing God's laws. In James 4:17, it says "If anyone, then, knows the good they ought to do and doesn't do it, it is sin for them."
quote:
If "god" has put me on this plan, there's been some a-holes in the way. Some hurt me, some got hurt and some stepped back.
Yep, just like the Parable of the Sower. Some folks don't get the message, others get the message but let their friends lead them astray and some hear the message and change their lives for the better.
quote:
Uncle Tucker used to say "last ones in the church door, first ones at the beer store". Of course, he didn't think it was immoral to drink and neither do I. Heard tell even ole yeshua has been known to throw back some wine now and again.
Drinking isn't a sin in and of itself but drunkenness is. I choose to avoid drinking because of the situations it can put you in that can lead to other sinning. 1 Peter 5:8 says "Be alert and of sober mind. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour."
quote:
If he were fact,there's a good chance we could have been friendly and not agree on a damn thing too.
At the end of the the day, I have no reason to believe in "god" or need faith to cope with difficult times.
The ability to Reason, has seen me through.
Opinions vary.
quote:
However, it is still a free country....for now and, every individuals situation differs. If the book and faith helps you, get after it.
They are those who work to take such rights away from Christians. Christians in Europe and Canada have it worse than Americans in this department though. And there are Christians in other parts of the world that deal with serious persecution.
quote:
Morality is NOT reserved for christians.
If you don't believe in God, it becomes difficult to define what is moral as you are reduced to subjective morality standards. One could choose to live under the objective morality standards of Christianity while not believing in Christ and thus be a moral person as far as that goes. However, if God exists and you reject him, that act would be immoral. Plus, if you do not believe in an afterlife, it is going to influence what you believe to be good and bad.
re: God Has A Plan For Your Life
Posted by TCUFan on 5/8/20 at 12:44 pm
quote:
Next time a woman kills her kids saying God told her too you religious nuts better not shout "God would never do that!"
What is your answer for why this happens if there is no God?
re: God Has A Plan For Your Life
Posted by TCUFan on 5/8/20 at 12:43 pm
quote:
so we are 1st graders talking to quantum physicists? Got it. How dare we question your all knowing authority of Christianity.
Stop pretending you are seeking truth and understanding here. Most of your posts are unnecessarily combative and when you get a good response; instead of taking it in, you just jump to your next attack argument. That might make you feel like you have won an argument but don't fool yourself into thinking you are really seeking truth and understanding.
quote:
The fact that you are ok with a creator that allows suffering when he as the absolute power to change that is just baffling to me. and your answer to that is "whats wrong with that".
The existence of suffering and evil is an argument for the existence of God. You can virtue signal with this point of yours and pretend the issue of suffering and evil isn't a complex issue. But it is. The reality is sometimes suffering is a good thing and a necessary thing to create change. Making an emotional appeal argument like you are doing is just putting feelings ahead of reason.
quote:
Thanks scientist for explaining it to us dummies.
talking down to people
Perhaps if you weren't unnecessarily combative, you might elicit a kinder response in return.
re: God Has A Plan For Your Life
Posted by TCUFan on 5/7/20 at 1:37 pm
quote:
What's the jewish plan?
Please stay on topic rather than trying to derail. We are focusing on God's plan rather than the individual.
re: God Has A Plan For Your Life
Posted by TCUFan on 5/7/20 at 12:49 pm
quote:
So forget all the pillars of fire, mana from heaven, rivers of blood, talking burning bushes, God needed blood sacrifices to get their attention?
Have you read these message boards and other ones? We are a stubborn, thickheaded people.
quote:
I get the gravity of the offering, but why tie it to blood sacrifices alone? Let's say I chose to burn all my farm equipment instead, and that sacrifice was valued at more than my most prized cow, would that also work? Does that not show how serious I am about honoring God and trying to atone for my transgressions? What about giving the value of my most prize cow, or even more, to a poor family in need?
What I'm trying to get at is that the blood sacrifice thing seems quite arbitrary. Sure you can justify it by saying it checks boxes A, B, and C. But so do a lot of other actions, yet those actions don't, at least according to my understanding of the Bible, grant you atonement.
We have the example in the bible where Abel's animal's sacrifice was praised by God by Cain's sacrifice of harvest foods was rejected by God. Here, is a writeup of how they extrapolated things based on this: https://answersingenesis.org/bible-characters/cain/why-didnt-god-respect-cains-offering/
The giving of a cow to a poor family wouldn't be an atonement. That would be more like a way of trying to bribe your way into heaven. Like if you got charged with a ticket and had to a pay a fine, you couldn't say but I gave money to charity so could you please let me out of this ticket. Your good work wouldn't absolve you of your wrong doing. You'd still need to pay the fine.
The bigger issue in your argument here seems to be that you don't like how God does things. It is the if I was in charge, I would do it differently line of thinking. Well, that is fine but it isn't up to you or us. You and I are not God and as I said to the other poster, we aren't in a comparable position to even judge his actions.
re: God Has A Plan For Your Life
Posted by TCUFan on 5/7/20 at 12:20 pm
quote:
Because Odin didn't send c-19
Romans 11:36
All things come from god, through god, and return to god, Praise him for ever.
Odin couldn't because he is not a god.
quote:
Odin died defending his people and kingdom.
So have a lot of other people but that doesn't make them God.
quote:
I've seen to many good people die for no reason.
Rid the world of all disease, heal the sick of all illness, tear down the wall around the vatican.
[quote]
Wars have been fought over religious beliefs. Some continue today.
Wars are fought for all kinds or reasons. Secular reasons. Scarcity reasons. Ego reasons and so on. Seems very unfair to place all the wars at the feet of religion. Most of the killing in history done in the 20th century (which was more than any other point in history) was enacted under pagan or atheistic ideas rather than Christian ones. Hitler, Pol Pot, Mao, Stalin, etc.
quote:
I was once an alter boy, it took my uncle, the only person to believe me to make the priest admit his wrong doing. Evil persists everywhere, the pope slaps a woman, meh, she deserves it.
I'm sorry that happened to you. I hope you have received counseling and been able to work through it.
And yet, I hope in time you can see that such actions of the priest were not the actions of God. As we know all to well that man is fallible but God is not. If you have been thinking about the question of evil, I think you will find this book helpful. I prefer the audiobook as I can listen to it as I workout or run errands but it is called "Walking With God Through Pain and Suffering" by Timothy Keller. He is not a Catholic but has had his share of pain and suffering.
re: God Has A Plan For Your Life
Posted by TCUFan on 5/7/20 at 12:06 pm
quote:
Out of all the possible ways to show how serious an offense is, why choose blood sacrifice?
Does it not get your attention? Do you not think it made an impression on the ancient Israelites and proto-Israelites?
If you are in an agrarian/herding type society, your animals were one of your prized possessions. To offer up a prized possession in atonement shows how serious you are about honoring God. It needed to mean something to the person so he took it seriously and was remembered. If the atonement was light, he would be more inclined to take sinning lightly.
re: God Has A Plan For Your Life
Posted by TCUFan on 5/7/20 at 11:54 am
quote:
From my "vantage point" I see a book that claims a Creator made all of this/us to worship him. That seems a bit selfish. Is there not another way? We are born to suffer and forced to believe he killed his only son to save us? The notion that this is the best an all knowing all good/evil Creator came up with and loves us so much and he shows us he loves us by making us suffer and worship him and if we chose not to we are made to suffer even more for all eternity.
Ok, how are you defining what is good and bad? What standard are you using?
What is wrong with the Creator creating us in the hopes that we will worship him? He did not have to create us and he did give us free will.
quote:
That Creator with those "rules" sounds like an a-hole.
When you were a teenager, and assuming you had good parents, they also gave you rules too like giving you a curfew. You may have thought they were being a jerk at the time but with experience and wisdom you realized they really cared for you as they knew all the bad things that might happen by staying out late and wanted to protect you from them. And so it is the same with God and his rules.
quote:
He loves us so much that in the suffering he created, he is the only solution? Sounds like big government to me. create a problem that you are the only solution to.
Why are you assuming that life only has suffering?
quote:
Not attacking you or your beliefs personally but in general I have lots more questions that dont have answers and require more than just "God has a plan for your life".
Ok, but how is this fixed by not believing in him?. The questions still exist if you reject God. Atheism doesn't have the answers to many questions. Are you certain you are applying this standard across the board?
quote:
my main point is that you and everyone else that claim to know the truth are as informed and speculative as non believers. Just because a book composed by some very shady people claims to be true doesnt make it so.
I think this depends on the person. I have met a lot of atheists and agnostics that had strong opinions but never investigated the historicity of the bible. In addition, there are many people who may be aware of the warts of Christianity but have little knowledge of its benefits. Now, obviously, there are atheists and agnostics that have researched these issues and have come to different conclusions too. But I would say as a whole people are not that well informed.
Why do you think the people who wrote the bible were very shady people?
re: God Has A Plan For Your Life
Posted by TCUFan on 5/7/20 at 11:10 am
quote:
Why is forgiveness dependent on blood sacrifices?
Because such an atonement shows how serious God takes sinning and how much the Israelites should have too.
re: God Has A Plan For Your Life
Posted by TCUFan on 5/7/20 at 10:32 am
quote:
Odin has a plan for me in Valhalla.
Odin isn't a god despite what Marvel might say. Odin died and was buried. He also lost his eye and couldn't grow back another. I believe a lot of these pagan gods were in fact warrior kings who before or after they died were deified by their people. But as the early Christians would ask the pagans then, "why follow someone as a god when you know their bones are buried over there?"
re: God Has A Plan For Your Life
Posted by TCUFan on 5/7/20 at 10:22 am
quote:
The same way you "know" god has a plan.
It just seems like the most powerful being/creator could have come up with something better.
This is the second time you have spoken as if you know all that others know or why they arrive at their decisions. I think it is a mistake to assume you have that knowledge.
So far you have said you feel like he should have made a better plan. How are you going about judging his plan as good or bad or mediocre given our vantage point and our many limitations? For example, if you had all the attributes of God, is it not possible you might feel very differently about the quality of his plan?
re: God Has A Plan For Your Life
Posted by TCUFan on 5/7/20 at 10:13 am
quote:
Why is his plan for my life so much different than his plan is for a man my age in Mogadishu?
Do you believe in God? Have you asked God for an answer?
re: God Has A Plan For Your Life
Posted by TCUFan on 5/7/20 at 10:07 am
quote:
I don't think Saul cried out to the creator before he was blinded and became Paul.
But yea, just make shite up as you go.
Saul was a devout Pharisee who believed he was doing God's will.
re: God Has A Plan For Your Life
Posted by TCUFan on 5/7/20 at 10:03 am
quote:
Thinking God has a plan for your life is just a way for people to cope with the chaos of existence.
How do you know that?
God Has A Plan For Your Life
Posted by TCUFan on 5/7/20 at 9:01 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd_vmDLXAIA
E. Michael Jones shares a recent story about an encounter in his life.
E. Michael Jones shares a recent story about an encounter in his life.
re: What generation did men stop carrying a pocket knife?
Posted by TCUFan on 5/7/20 at 1:41 am
I have never stopped carrying a knife except when I fly. I was taught to carry one in scouts and find that it is useful to have.
re: Ardarius Washington to TCU
Posted by TCUFan on 2/6/18 at 5:13 pm
Thank you LSU coaching staff.
Popular
57
