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re: It is too much money to fire McMahon
Posted by Alt26 on 2/11/26 at 4:04 pm to NotaStarGazer
quote:
College baseball IS a major sport.
It's not. LSU baseball is really good and we all love it for that reason. But on the whole, it's not a major sport...or anywhere close. If nothing else, the TV money reflects that. ESPN pays $115M annually for the right to broadcast multiple NCAA championship events (not football or men's basketball). Included within that is the CWS.
Turner/CBS pays over $1 BILLION annually to broadcast just the NCAA basketball tournament
quote:
Which reminds me...which sport draws better attendance at LSU...LSU baseball or LSU basketball?
On total season attendance it will always be baseball...if for no other reason than there are 2x as many home baseball games as there are basketball. On a per game average, it is probably still baseball.
However, from a ticket revenue perspective LSU baseball averaged less per game than basketball.
In 2024 LSU baseball (as the reigning national champion) reported $3.5M in ticket revenue. Divide that by 36 home games and the revenue averages $97,222 per game.
In that same year LSU basketball (coming off a losing season and one of the worst SEC records in school history) reported $2.1M in ticket revenue. Divide that by 18 home games and the revenue averages $116,666 per game.
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re: Who is the worst LSU coach (in big sports) over the last 50 years?
Posted by Alt26 on 2/11/26 at 3:43 pm to PP7 for heisman
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I mean not really? He had objective restrictions to recruiting, at a time when the rest of the conference was going all in on the sport.
His restriction was the loss of ONE scholarship...for each of his first two seasons. Something LSU (a) worked around each year by having a guy who was technically a walk-on, but having his scholarship paid via NIL funds and (b) didn't matter anyway since McMahon has essentially redshirted a scholarship player each season.
quote:
Wade was also able (willing) to pay guys before it was legal.
Please don't tell me you are naive enough to believe LSU was the only program paying players before NIL? What Wade was smart enough to do was paid above "slot value" for players powers like Kentucky, UNC, Arizona, etc wanted. For example, Kentucky wanted Smart. But they also had to pay for a lot of other big name players too. In that class UK signed 5 top 40 players. That means the amount they were willing to pay Smart, who was ranked behind those guys, was less than LSU was willing to pay since Smart was a higher priority for LSU. Same for Days with UNC
quote:
I mean it is extremely uncommon for an SEC team to go into the summer with zero players on the roster.
And neither did LSU given it returned 3 players from the 2022 roster. But more to you point of "rarity", Texas A&M returned zero scholarship players from last year's roster this season. They are currently 17-6 (7-3). With a win tonight McMillan will have won as many SEC games (8) in 11 games as McMahon won in 31 games! Furthermore, McMillian has already won nearly as many SEC road games (3) in 1/2 a season as McMahon has won in almost FOUR years (4)
quote:
MM is making the tournament in year 2 against the old SEC. Without injuries, he's making the tournament in the old SEC in years 2-4.
No he isn't. His level of suck would have just decreased to fit the level of competition around him.
re: Who is the worst LSU coach (in big sports) over the last 50 years?
Posted by Alt26 on 2/11/26 at 3:18 pm to Tiger in Texas
quote:
Curly Hallman, easily. LSU was always a football school, and he brought the team to all time lows.
Were you around in the 80's? LSU had three losing seasons between 1980 - 1989. Archer was 4-7 and 5-6 in the years before Hallman took over. It's not like he was taking over a great program and tanked it. He generally just continued the losing Archer started.
quote:
As to McMahon, he has suffered through some injuries that really stung the team and at least was able to win some pre-SEC games
Beating SWAC, Southland, and other low major programs isn't an "accomplishment". And assuming SMU hangs on to reach the NCAA Tournament, it will be the first non-conf. opponent McMahon has defeated in his LSU career that reached the NCAA Tournament that season.
quote:
but with Hallman, you felt like any win was a challenge...
And that hasn't been the case with McMahon? Hallman had a .322 winning % in SEC games. Barring a miracle, McMahon's SEC winning % will be below .250 by the end of the year.
I guess it's just because of the relative lack of interest in basketball compared to football, but I don't think a lot of people truly appreciate just how bad these last 4 years of LSU basketball have been
quote:
I don’t think it makes sense for Wade.
His base salary at NC State this year is less than McMahon's. Even if LSU just moderately bumped up what they were agreeing to pay McMahon it would represent a raise for Wade (though obviously NC State would respond in kind).
Also, regardless of how well he does at NC State the rest of the year his entire roster are "free agents" and he will likely have to put together a significantly new roster next year even if he stays at NC State. So it is not like he would be leaving a "loaded" roster to come face a multi-year rebuild at LSU. Hell, he could just take the guys he wants at NC State to LSU with him. That's commonplace with coaching changes now. Hell, even MM took three Murray State players with him to LSU.
The SEC, as a whole, is in much better shape financially than the ACC and that is unlikely to change. Particularly when you have big football draws like Clemson and FSU actively trying to get out ASAP. Yes, there is a great pedigree of basketball in the ACC. But those days are fading relative to the SEC.
There may be a power vacuum developing in the SEC. Bruce Pearl is gone. Rick Barnes is probably not that much further behind. Cal is doing well in a new spot, but he's getting older. Kentucky is not really terrifying the rest of the league anymore with Pope. Basically, the SEC has Oats and Golden really carrying the flag for the foreseeable future at the top of the league.
NC State is a good job. Anyone who says otherwise is fooling themselves. But it's not a "do no leave under any circumstances" job. Wade returning to LSU would be unique in one very important aspect. He'd already have relationships with donors established on day 1.
re: Do people honestly think McMahon will be coaching here next season?
Posted by Alt26 on 2/11/26 at 1:44 pm to The Hurricane
quote:
LSU is about to overpay for a big coach and they have to.
This isn't football! Those types of hires don't happen as much in basketball. And they aren't necessary. We've seen multiple mid-major hires immediately turnaround a major conf. program in one offseason.
For example, A&M has a 1st year HC hired from Samford. Despite the "insurmountable" obstacle of returning 0 players from last year's A&M roster, he has them on pace to reach the NCAA Tournament this season. In fact, with a win tonight that HC will have won half as many SEC games (8) in just 11 games than McMahon has won (16) in SIXTY FIVE games
re: LSU basketball path forward
Posted by Alt26 on 2/11/26 at 1:20 pm to The Pirate King
quote:
I'd love to meet these mystery basketball boosters that are willing to put up $25-30 million to turn the men's program around. I'm not sure they exist. It sure isn't going to be the fans putting up money.
$10 million to buy out McMahon and staff
$10 million plus for new staff
$5-10 million to buy a decent roster.
Since we are going to have a discussion, lets use real (approximate) numbers.
The base salary for the final 3 years of MM's deal is ~$8.1M. The buyout would be 80% of that total or ~$6.5M. spread out over three years. That comes out to about $2.2M annually
David Patrick's contract runs for another 2 years after this season. The total value of those 2 years would be $1.325M. If he's fired LSU owes 80% of that amount, or $1,060,000...spread out over two years. So $530,000 annually
Jalen Courtney's contract runs through the end of next year. His annualy salary is $425k. IIf he's fired LSU owes 80% of that amount, or $340k payable by the end of next year's term.
Ronald Dupree's contract runs for another 2 years after this season. The total value of those 2 years would be $815k. If he's fired LSU owes 90% of that amount, or $733,500...spread out over two years. So $366,750 annually.
The other 2 assistants are on expiring contracts this year.
What would LSU owe in buyouts NEXT YEAR? Approximately $3.5M. Or let's even conservative because there is probably other compensation there and say $4.0M...NOT ANYWHERE CLOSE to the $10M you proposed LSU would have to pay in "immediate" buyout money.
So what might NEXT YEAR'S cost with a new staff.
$4.0M to pay the former staff to go away
$3.5M for HC (let's not even bring up the W word)
$1.5M for staff
$4M for NIL (LSU will get ~ $4M in revenue share)
That comes out to about $12M for next season. Or lets even be bullish an call it $15M
Is avoiding paying a (declining) ~$3M more per year to a fired staff for 3 more years worth continuing to have the worst basketball program in the SEC for the next three seasons? Particularly when the cost of hiring a new staff and NIL will be multiple millions HIGHER in 3 years than it is today?
re: LSU basketball path forward
Posted by Alt26 on 2/11/26 at 12:39 pm to helllo_heisman002
And, as predicted, here come the illogical "keep McMahon because it's too expensive to fire him" posts. Seriously, are there "influencers" being paid to post on message board, social media, to pretend to support this guy like you see in political campaigns? NO OTHER COACH who has accomplished so little has gotten so much "support" to be retained 3 years after his expiration date.
The better question is "at what financial cost does it make sense" to NOT make a change. Again:
By keeping McMahon LSU is incurring significant lost opportunity costs. Lost opportunity to potentially find a good coach. Lost opportunity to improve the program. Lost opportunity to sell more "product" (i.e ticket, concessions, and other ancillary products associated with the program) ALL for very little "savings".
If this is your line of thinking then you can't call yourself an LSU basketball fan. If you were to say "I'm not really a basketball fan and couldn't care less about the program" then while I might disagree with this position, at least I could understand the logic behind it. But you can't be a basketball fan AND think any of the absurdity posted by the OP makes any sense whatsoever.
The better question is "at what financial cost does it make sense" to NOT make a change. Again:
quote:
MM is getting paid for next season whether he coaches or not. So that means he either gets paid ~$3M to coach...or ~$2M to NOT coach. 2 of his assistants are on expiring contracts. That means whether he returns or not, LSU is going to have to either renew those contracts or hire new assistant coaches.
And it's not like the marketplace is going to stay stagnant to allow LSU to "ride out" this mistake in a cost-effective manner. The basketball coaching market it going to continue to inflate. The HC that might cost you $4M next season is going to cost $4.5M if you hire him the year after that. The NIL need for basketball is going to continue to inflate. This year's $7M roster will cost $9M next season, and so on. The cost for football is ALSO going to continue to inflate. The players are going to continue to get more expensive. Assistant coaches are going to get more expensive.
By keeping McMahon LSU is incurring significant lost opportunity costs. Lost opportunity to potentially find a good coach. Lost opportunity to improve the program. Lost opportunity to sell more "product" (i.e ticket, concessions, and other ancillary products associated with the program) ALL for very little "savings".
If this is your line of thinking then you can't call yourself an LSU basketball fan. If you were to say "I'm not really a basketball fan and couldn't care less about the program" then while I might disagree with this position, at least I could understand the logic behind it. But you can't be a basketball fan AND think any of the absurdity posted by the OP makes any sense whatsoever.
quote:
I would expect the next coach at LSU’s salary to be 2.5-3 million range
Then that means LSU would have the lowest paid HC in the conference and probably be looking at the second tier of mid-major HCs candidates. I think you are going to see the new HC's salary be at least in the $3.5 - $4.0 range.
quote:
Yeah let’s keep missing out on Louisiana recruit
This isn't 2005. And it isn't football. Basketball is, and has long been, a "national" sport. The Arkansas team that just kicked LSU's arse has 1 player on the roster from Arkansas. their best player is from Detroit. Plus, even guys from LA are going to want NIL money to play for LSU. Finally, recruiting and developing HS prospects is not how teams are built any more. I'm certain a good coach, from any part of the country, could do what is necessary to sign a good LA HS prospect if warranted.
DO NOT make a hire based upon "local ties". Get the best HC you can...from wherever
David Patrick would be the interim.
Regardless, unless the players just really want to move on from MM and would prefer to play their final 8 games under someone else, a mid-season firing isn't going to do much. The basketball calendar isn't like football where a new HC has to be hired before or during the "playoffs", and the roster is going turnover regardless of if LSU fires or retains MM.
I think Verge will just give MM the dignity of finishing out the year.
Regardless, unless the players just really want to move on from MM and would prefer to play their final 8 games under someone else, a mid-season firing isn't going to do much. The basketball calendar isn't like football where a new HC has to be hired before or during the "playoffs", and the roster is going turnover regardless of if LSU fires or retains MM.
I think Verge will just give MM the dignity of finishing out the year.
re: Was at dinner tonight and have a sauce (Men’s BBall)
Posted by Alt26 on 2/11/26 at 8:56 am to TigerPlate
quote:
Why not go find a new fresh face instead of bringing back a retread.
The retread who had the best winning % in the program in 100 years?
quote:
Surely there is some young coaching talent out there that can bring the program back to success
Name him? And tell the class why you are confident he will bring the program back to success? Not "success" as redefined by McMahon's futility and his handful of ardent supporters who would seem to equate getting a D- as "success". But actual success.
quote:
inherent drama Wade would bring
What drama? Fans being excited? Watching winning basketball?
There are constant chime in posters who say "LSU could do better". Yet, they NEVER provide a name basis for their opinion
re: It is too much money to fire McMahon
Posted by Alt26 on 2/11/26 at 8:49 am to Portcityblues
quote:
what are the chances that he sees the direction of the program and the obvious writing on the wall and just leaves on his own and goes and finds a job at a mid major in the offseason? Sure it would be taking a pay cut yada yada but he is still young and needs to reboot his career.
No mid-major (at least any mid-major who would hire him with such a dismal record at LSU) would pay him anywhere close to the ~$2M LSU would have to pay him annually for the next 3 seasons. Plus, I doubt there is much of a market for him, even at the mid-major level.
He got the Murray St job as an on-staff promotion. It was his first HC job. The marketplace is going to look at his awful performance at LSU and the fact the basketball landscape has changed since he was last a mid-major HC and pass on him.
NO ONE has ever said, or expected LSU to be a "blue blood". But that doesn't mean the program can't be great with the right HC. And it doesn't mean the ceiling is short of a championship.
From 1905 - 2017 Auburn had 8 NCAA Tournament appearances...total. 4 Sweet 16 appearances and 1 elite eight appearance. Then they hire a HC who was out of the game because of NCAA sanctions and "suddenly" they are making the NCAAT every season and going to two Final Fours...in one of which literally seconds away of playing for a NC.
Alabama had arguably less basketball history than LSU...then they hire a HC from Buffalo. Within 2 years they win the SEC, make the NCAA Tournament annually, and have only had 1 NCAAT in the last 5 years where they didn't make, at least, the Sweet 16, all while playing one of the best schedules every season.
The defeatist attitude is a product of people who don't follow college basketball outside of casually paying attention to LSU for about 2 weeks in January. The right HC changes EVERYTHING. LSU doesn't have that. But that doesn't mean they can't find him. And it doesn't have to be a "Kiffin" like hire. In fact, it's almost a certainty the next great LSU HC WON'T be such a hire.
From 1905 - 2017 Auburn had 8 NCAA Tournament appearances...total. 4 Sweet 16 appearances and 1 elite eight appearance. Then they hire a HC who was out of the game because of NCAA sanctions and "suddenly" they are making the NCAAT every season and going to two Final Fours...in one of which literally seconds away of playing for a NC.
Alabama had arguably less basketball history than LSU...then they hire a HC from Buffalo. Within 2 years they win the SEC, make the NCAA Tournament annually, and have only had 1 NCAAT in the last 5 years where they didn't make, at least, the Sweet 16, all while playing one of the best schedules every season.
The defeatist attitude is a product of people who don't follow college basketball outside of casually paying attention to LSU for about 2 weeks in January. The right HC changes EVERYTHING. LSU doesn't have that. But that doesn't mean they can't find him. And it doesn't have to be a "Kiffin" like hire. In fact, it's almost a certainty the next great LSU HC WON'T be such a hire.
re: It is too much money to fire McMahon
Posted by Alt26 on 2/11/26 at 8:10 am to Tigernomics
quote:
Are you really going to give up your seats for a few bad seasons
I did. The benefit wasn't worth the cost. More importantly the risk (of losing those seats) is low because new customers aren't flooding the market.
quote:
the Johnny jones era. It was just as bad and he was an a$$ hat.
Only Jones' final season, when everyone knew he was a lame duck, was close to this bad. This is a (partial) shot of the crowd from Jones' 4th season. McMahon has NEVER had a hard sell out in 4 years at LSU.
This is a shot of the crowd on a night when there was an ice storm in BR and south Louisiana. Many roads we undriveable. Yet, this crowd is larger than any actual crowd MM has had all season...probably two seasons!
re: It is too much money to fire McMahon
Posted by Alt26 on 2/11/26 at 7:59 am to polarbear6
quote:
A ton of smoke that he really will get another year bc we can’t “ afford “ to fire him .
It's the same groupthink that has told you for 4 years that MM is a good "x's and o's" coach, and Wade just played "street ball". One of the downsides of LSU being inconsistent for the last 30 years or so is it has created a generation (or two) of an ignorant fanbase (relative to college basketball...not in general).
MM is getting paid for next season whether he coaches or not. So that means he either gets paid ~$3M to coach...or ~$2M to NOT coach. 2 of his assistants are on expiring contracts. That means whether he returns or not, LSU is going to have to either renew those contracts or hire new assistant coaches.
And it's not like the marketplace is going to stay stagnant to allow LSU to "ride out" this mistake in a cost-effective manner. The basketball coaching market it going to continue to inflate. The HC that might cost you $4M next season is going to cost $4.5M if you hire him the year after that. The NIL need for basketball is going to continue to inflate. This year's $7M roster will cost $9M next season, and so on. The cost for football is ALSO going to continue to inflate. The players are going to continue to get more expensive. Assistant coaches are going to get more expensive.
Unless the plan is to ride out this thing for another 3 years, which will correspondingly decrease customer (i.e. fan) support and interest to nothing, then there isn't much "savings", if any, by kicking the can down the road another year.
quote:
What is the point of this thread?
It's a troll post.
But it is also the latest stupid argument that is going to be presented in favor of keeping the unequivocally worst HC, in any sport, over the last several decades for another wasted year.
You will soon see dumb posts that LSU "can't afford" to pay MM's $6M buyout this year...without realizing that figure is spread out over 3 years, not a lump sum. You'll see post that LSU can't afford to buyout MM's staff too...without realizing that (1) two of the assistant coaches' contracts expire this season
At no point this century has LSU given a coach with such little (actually no) success so much leeway. Maybe even last century too. Yet, even though the OP is a troll, you are going to see people legitimately argue LSU should not only retain MM...but give him MORE money that could be used to fix the actual problem, a poor HC, rather than just make the change that has been necessary for 3 years.
EDT:
quote:
So unless you got 12 mill to buy him and his staff out then it’s not happening.
RIGHT.ON.CUE. :lol:
re: Most of the players are just awful at basketball!
Posted by Alt26 on 2/10/26 at 10:54 pm to drizztiger
quote:
We’ve had 40+ different basketball players over the last 3+ seasons. There has been one constant.
Just a heads up. You’re fighting a losing (and absurd) battle here. In case you didn’t know, there is a shady behind the scenes cabal putting together the rosters. McMahon has no say in the players. He’s just been forced to try to coach them.
Save yourself the trouble and avoid trying to figure out the asinine logic that is about to flow out
quote:
I know no one wants to hear this, but this is a quality loss
You’re right. Arkansas made sure to leave no doubt LSU lost this game.
Give McMahon credit though. He has redefined what “success” means when it comes to LSU basketball
quote:
The basketball coach before wade (can’t even remember his name lol) was really terrible. Not sure I’d say McMan is worse than him.
Johnny Jones never had a losing season until his final year at LSU (his 5th year). In his first 4 seasons Jones’s WORST SEC record was 9-9. That’s McMahon’s best record.
So yes, McMahon is infinitely worse than the guy before Wade
Woodward extended this misery one more season SOLELY so people wouldn’t try to force him to hire Wade…only to be publicly pantsed by the Governor and fired BEFORE McMahon.
Talk about an all time backfire
Talk about an all time backfire
quote:
Well he’s now 14-50 in conference play, which is terrible. Sorry it ruffles your feathers to call a spade a spade
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