AgGator
| Favorite team: | Florida  |
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| Number of Posts: | 132 |
| Registered on: | 11/1/2009 |
| Online Status: | Not Online |
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re: Boston for our 20th
Posted by AgGator on 4/23/24 at 8:58 am
Thanks for the suggestions!
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re: Boston for our 20th
Posted by AgGator on 4/22/24 at 12:34 pm
My wife and I are going this week for a last hurrah before our little guy shows up.
We are planning to do the Freedom Trail, a game at Fenway, walk around a bunch to gawk at buildings, and drive down to Newport to see the mansions (my wife’s request).
I looked at the Boston thread quite a bit along with Reddit in an attempt to plan for eating more than anything. I can reply back if we hit any great or not so great ones. I have Abitas thread saved on my phone so I can look at restaurants for whatever area we end up in come meal time and hopefully save ourselves from any bad meals. One problem with the internet is I can find people saying you have to eat at Place X and others calling the same pace overrated. Time will tell how we do.
We are planning to do the Freedom Trail, a game at Fenway, walk around a bunch to gawk at buildings, and drive down to Newport to see the mansions (my wife’s request).
I looked at the Boston thread quite a bit along with Reddit in an attempt to plan for eating more than anything. I can reply back if we hit any great or not so great ones. I have Abitas thread saved on my phone so I can look at restaurants for whatever area we end up in come meal time and hopefully save ourselves from any bad meals. One problem with the internet is I can find people saying you have to eat at Place X and others calling the same pace overrated. Time will tell how we do.
re: Thousands of beef cattle suddenly drop dead in Kansas
Posted by AgGator on 6/16/22 at 7:25 am
On my phone so this may look like a wall of text.
These animals died from heat stress. While the total number of cattle dead in this event may be higher than most times these events, while not normal, aren’t uncommon. You can look up similar events in 2009, 2010, 2013 at least.
The combination of heat, humidity, and no wind is what can lead to this, it isn’t just temperature by itself. The other factor is the lack of night cooling during this time. That’s when cattle can dissipate their heat load from the day.
The reason cows aren’t as affected compared to these calves is in feedlot pens there is no shade and they are on dirt not grass so the surface temperature is also higher here. Add in level of finish decreasing their ability to dissipate heat even further and you can get train wrecks like these.
Can’t speak to anything else going on in the world but this is the industry that pays my bills and involves working in SW Kansas. I promise there is no government conspiracy here.
Also, those calves have been placed in rows like that to either compost, bury, count, or something else.
These animals died from heat stress. While the total number of cattle dead in this event may be higher than most times these events, while not normal, aren’t uncommon. You can look up similar events in 2009, 2010, 2013 at least.
The combination of heat, humidity, and no wind is what can lead to this, it isn’t just temperature by itself. The other factor is the lack of night cooling during this time. That’s when cattle can dissipate their heat load from the day.
The reason cows aren’t as affected compared to these calves is in feedlot pens there is no shade and they are on dirt not grass so the surface temperature is also higher here. Add in level of finish decreasing their ability to dissipate heat even further and you can get train wrecks like these.
Can’t speak to anything else going on in the world but this is the industry that pays my bills and involves working in SW Kansas. I promise there is no government conspiracy here.
Also, those calves have been placed in rows like that to either compost, bury, count, or something else.
re: Post the low temperature in your location this morning
Posted by AgGator on 2/16/21 at 9:14 am
Truck said -12 on the way to work. Chickasha, OK area
re: Amarillo Restaurant & Beer Recommendations
Posted by AgGator on 2/4/21 at 10:49 am
Public House off Coulter is kind of high but good. There is also a cheaper bar across the parking lot for after if you want.
re: Burger Kings new ad is tasty
Posted by AgGator on 7/14/20 at 3:28 pm
Would be difficult to piece together if not familiar with the industry.
Common feed additives would be monensin, tylosin, and ractopamine. There are also vitamins, DFM's, and MGA for heifers.
The only one of those that is considered an antibiotic that needs a VFD is tylosin which is on borrowed time likely. It's fed to decrease liver abscesses. You can google all those and find what they claim to do, their efficacy, and the FDA approvals would deal with residues.
Drugs that have residual amounts in an animal have FDA regulated withdrawal times. Tylosin doesn't have one. I'm not being an industry shill when I say that antibiotic residues in fed cattle are not an issue. You might run into issues here and there at plants that kill cows, but those aren't coming from a feedlot and I still would say the potential health effects on humans are pretty much nil.
Use of feed additives in cattle is tightly regulated. A vet can write an off script deal for an injectable drug. There is no off label use allowed in feed additives. Additionally, in the vast majority of feedlots today those additives are weighed out by an automated machine where there isn't room for human error.
Common feed additives would be monensin, tylosin, and ractopamine. There are also vitamins, DFM's, and MGA for heifers.
The only one of those that is considered an antibiotic that needs a VFD is tylosin which is on borrowed time likely. It's fed to decrease liver abscesses. You can google all those and find what they claim to do, their efficacy, and the FDA approvals would deal with residues.
Drugs that have residual amounts in an animal have FDA regulated withdrawal times. Tylosin doesn't have one. I'm not being an industry shill when I say that antibiotic residues in fed cattle are not an issue. You might run into issues here and there at plants that kill cows, but those aren't coming from a feedlot and I still would say the potential health effects on humans are pretty much nil.
Use of feed additives in cattle is tightly regulated. A vet can write an off script deal for an injectable drug. There is no off label use allowed in feed additives. Additionally, in the vast majority of feedlots today those additives are weighed out by an automated machine where there isn't room for human error.
re: Burger Kings new ad is tasty
Posted by AgGator on 7/14/20 at 3:11 pm
We can absolutely feed an animal to slaughter weight by 18-24 months without any antibiotics. We do it regularly, there are many programs that specifically source that product. Look at Walmarts prime pursuits program.
What age should an animal reach slaughter at? On grass only? What kind of grass? Different grasses produce different rates of gain, which is correct? What I'm getting at is that natural vs unnatural is purely subjective. We can finish cattle perfectly fine on grain based diets without any additives, if this isn't natural then how much grain is allowed? It all becomes arbitrary. Feeding grain to cattle is fine, not feeding it is fine, both are acceptable since the ruminant animal can make use of energy from both cellulose and starch, it's why they are so cool.
Edit to add that age of animals going into ground beef is another deal. Alot of cow meat there vs steer/heifer.
What age should an animal reach slaughter at? On grass only? What kind of grass? Different grasses produce different rates of gain, which is correct? What I'm getting at is that natural vs unnatural is purely subjective. We can finish cattle perfectly fine on grain based diets without any additives, if this isn't natural then how much grain is allowed? It all becomes arbitrary. Feeding grain to cattle is fine, not feeding it is fine, both are acceptable since the ruminant animal can make use of energy from both cellulose and starch, it's why they are so cool.
Edit to add that age of animals going into ground beef is another deal. Alot of cow meat there vs steer/heifer.
re: Burger Kings new ad is tasty
Posted by AgGator on 7/14/20 at 2:39 pm
Cattle will readily consume grain while on pasture. It's why self-feeders have to have the gates closed to about an inch. It's why we have to limit what we put out if hand-feeding. There is no force-feeding involved.
There are microbes in the rumen that are primarily starch digesters and microbes that are primarily fiber digesters. They are all present, its just a matter of which proliferate more based on diet. We are just managing pH. Cattle are perfectly able to consume grain based diets if feeding management is sound.
If it wasn't for feedlots we wouldn't have the supply of beef that we do. There is no other way to produce the amount needed to meet demand in the US without it.
There are microbes in the rumen that are primarily starch digesters and microbes that are primarily fiber digesters. They are all present, its just a matter of which proliferate more based on diet. We are just managing pH. Cattle are perfectly able to consume grain based diets if feeding management is sound.
If it wasn't for feedlots we wouldn't have the supply of beef that we do. There is no other way to produce the amount needed to meet demand in the US without it.
re: Burger Kings new ad is tasty
Posted by AgGator on 7/14/20 at 1:55 pm
Only feeding grain with no roughage isn't a thing unless you are using an intake limiter which is very uncommon today (and those intake limiters aren't antibiotics, oils usually). There are plenty of cattle fed finishing diets without antibiotics. To add to that, there isn't some massive amount of antibiotics being fed regardless of what program they are on. And no finishing cattle are switched over to a grass based diet prior to slaughter.
Grain-based diets are also far more beneficial for the environment if you want to look at methane emissions as well. The amount of methane produced per unit of meat or milk is far less than in a purely grass based system.
Grain-based diets are also far more beneficial for the environment if you want to look at methane emissions as well. The amount of methane produced per unit of meat or milk is far less than in a purely grass based system.
re: Burger Kings new ad is tasty
Posted by AgGator on 7/14/20 at 1:45 pm
Well it's not me so much as science and normal industry practices.
re: Burger Kings new ad is tasty
Posted by AgGator on 7/14/20 at 1:33 pm
That's all far off the mark in a big way.
And maybe it was a joke and I missed it.
And maybe it was a joke and I missed it.
re: Meat prices spiking. Here is supposedly why.
Posted by AgGator on 5/27/20 at 12:11 pm
quote:
And you know all this how??????
I work in the beef industry for a living and have had the opportunity to be exposed to all its segments.
re: Meat prices spiking. Here is supposedly why.
Posted by AgGator on 5/27/20 at 11:52 am
In general I'm not a fan of that. Almost all of the beef we import is lean grinding beef of which we don'y make enough of. The American appetite for beef is in the form of steaks and ground beef. We produce plenty of the high value cuts but not enough of lean meat. We could grind up more chucks and rump but those cuts (largely as roasts) have a demand in other countries where it makes more sense to export them rather than grind them for domestic sale as ground product. That's where countries like Australia and New Zealand come in (along with Mexico and Canada). They mostly produce lower quality, leaner animals that we use to make ground beef with. We also import live animals from Mexico and Canada that are then finished and killed here. You might argue that those live animals hurt the demand for our own domestic animals but imports and exports with those two countries are very important for our own industry where the impact offsets the gain.
I think we are going to be in for a pickle until we get more current on fat cattle. Right now we are horribly uncurrent and therefore placements into feedyards are down which then feeds back into the feeder and calf markets. I don't know that our current import and export structure has that big of an impact on that in the overall scheme of things.
What we need in our industry is better price discovery and competition in fat cattle. What people disagree on is how to get there. More packers would be great but it isn't as simple as some might make it out to be.
I think we are going to be in for a pickle until we get more current on fat cattle. Right now we are horribly uncurrent and therefore placements into feedyards are down which then feeds back into the feeder and calf markets. I don't know that our current import and export structure has that big of an impact on that in the overall scheme of things.
What we need in our industry is better price discovery and competition in fat cattle. What people disagree on is how to get there. More packers would be great but it isn't as simple as some might make it out to be.
re: Meat prices spiking. Here is supposedly why.
Posted by AgGator on 5/27/20 at 10:35 am
I would argue the skilled positions do make decent money (all relative I suppose but high teens/low twenties hourly pay is good for many of those communities), its the fact that most positions in those modern plants are unskilled and can be done by anyone with no training. What wage does that deserve? That would get back to someone's view of wages in general which is a whole other animal.
re: Meat prices spiking. Here is supposedly why.
Posted by AgGator on 5/27/20 at 9:56 am
I don't know if you realize the negative effect that transportation over long distances has on an animal. With calves we can make that up with time. With fat cattle headed for slaughter we cant. Thats all money lost largely for the producer, not the packer.
I don't disagree about what plants have done to demographics in those areas but location is a big animal welfare issue.
I don't disagree about what plants have done to demographics in those areas but location is a big animal welfare issue.
re: Meat prices spiking. Here is supposedly why.
Posted by AgGator on 5/27/20 at 9:30 am
The packing industry shifted towards where the cattle are actually being fed. It isn't efficient or wise to move fat cattle on trucks or trains across the country to be killed. Packers simply followed the feeding industry which is centered around the ogallala aquifer.
They use immigrant labor because most Americans won't readily do those jobs. I have spent many hours in plants on both the kill and fabrication side and have always had it as one of the last things I would ever want to do. It's hot and humid on the kill side and cold on the fab side. The guys that have been there for a while and are skilled get paid quite well. The person cutting the ear tags out as they go by on the rail, not so much.
They use immigrant labor because most Americans won't readily do those jobs. I have spent many hours in plants on both the kill and fabrication side and have always had it as one of the last things I would ever want to do. It's hot and humid on the kill side and cold on the fab side. The guys that have been there for a while and are skilled get paid quite well. The person cutting the ear tags out as they go by on the rail, not so much.
re: Meat prices spiking. Here is supposedly why.
Posted by AgGator on 5/27/20 at 9:01 am
Having a bottleneck with only 4 major packers is a bad deal but it's not because of government regulations only. It's a good thing to have those people at plants and the reason many plants have gone out of business and been consolidated is because oh how difficult the packing business is in a global economy. If you saw some small lockers you would be happy there was an inspector there watching over things.
The ability to find outlets for the stuff that isn't consumed in the US isn't something the little guy is set up to do. Nor is the little guy able to offer grid and formula pricing that incentivizes making better cattle and so you end up with all commodity cattle and therefore a lesser quality. I wish there was more competition in the packing industry but there's a reason we have the situation we do today. It takes a massive amount of capital and people to run efficiently and takes alot of equity to survive when they are losing money on everything they kill.
All that said the packers are jerks, but necessary jerks that are mostly good at what they do.
The ability to find outlets for the stuff that isn't consumed in the US isn't something the little guy is set up to do. Nor is the little guy able to offer grid and formula pricing that incentivizes making better cattle and so you end up with all commodity cattle and therefore a lesser quality. I wish there was more competition in the packing industry but there's a reason we have the situation we do today. It takes a massive amount of capital and people to run efficiently and takes alot of equity to survive when they are losing money on everything they kill.
All that said the packers are jerks, but necessary jerks that are mostly good at what they do.
re: Beef prices and farmers...
Posted by AgGator on 5/18/20 at 11:41 am
Lot of possibly misinformed stuff here. The beef industry is far more segmented than other animal protein sectors for several reasons including land requirements and age at slaughter. We also have much more variance in animal genetics than do swine and poultry which is why you rarely get a porkchop or chicken breast that tastes much different from the one you got before.
By all means buy from a local guy that has a date set up with the local locker but don't believe that just because you are buying local you are getting a better product. So much of the quality of the end product (after taking into account genetics) has to do with the feeding program they were finished on and in that regard the guy doing it in his backyard cant compete with a feedyard. He doesn't have the ingredients or experience. If you're buying anything other than burger you're not getting some old thin cow. You're getting a steer or heifer that is almost always less than 24 months old.
Another potential downside to buying entire sides or quarters is what to do with everything other than the roasts, steaks, and grind. Thats why packers have a role, its easy enough to sell the main cuts everyone wants. It's harder to find consistent markets for everything else.
Getting away from the quality side, large scale animal agriculture is far more efficient than a guy finishing 10 head on his own. Thats why they exist. Some posts have mentioned ending live weights of 800-1000 lbs. On a large scale we havent been that light in a long time. Steers are getting finished at 1350+ lbs regularly today. The bottleneck on the packing side is a bad deal that will hopefully get better but its there because it takes a large business to be able to efficiently buy, kill, process, and then sell that animal. And in bad times it takes a large business to be able to weather the losses.
By all means buy from a local guy that has a date set up with the local locker but don't believe that just because you are buying local you are getting a better product. So much of the quality of the end product (after taking into account genetics) has to do with the feeding program they were finished on and in that regard the guy doing it in his backyard cant compete with a feedyard. He doesn't have the ingredients or experience. If you're buying anything other than burger you're not getting some old thin cow. You're getting a steer or heifer that is almost always less than 24 months old.
Another potential downside to buying entire sides or quarters is what to do with everything other than the roasts, steaks, and grind. Thats why packers have a role, its easy enough to sell the main cuts everyone wants. It's harder to find consistent markets for everything else.
Getting away from the quality side, large scale animal agriculture is far more efficient than a guy finishing 10 head on his own. Thats why they exist. Some posts have mentioned ending live weights of 800-1000 lbs. On a large scale we havent been that light in a long time. Steers are getting finished at 1350+ lbs regularly today. The bottleneck on the packing side is a bad deal that will hopefully get better but its there because it takes a large business to be able to efficiently buy, kill, process, and then sell that animal. And in bad times it takes a large business to be able to weather the losses.
re: Is Grad school a waste of time?
Posted by AgGator on 5/5/20 at 2:17 pm
I would echo that it is heavily dependent on if you can get it paid for and if it puts you into a different job/earnings bracket. For what I do a PhD is the price of entry and the pay is increased accordingly. That demand for trained PhDs then also allows for graduate assistantships at colleges that pay for tuition and provide a stipend to live on. So for me it is/was very much worth it.
In contrast, like others have said, a friend got her masters in English and incurred debt to do so and now makes crap money as an associate editor for a university press.
In contrast, like others have said, a friend got her masters in English and incurred debt to do so and now makes crap money as an associate editor for a university press.
re: Give me your 3 favorite albums
Posted by AgGator on 4/29/20 at 10:22 am
Layla and Other Assorted Love Songs (this is far and away #1 for me) - Derek and the Dominos
Rum, Sodomy, and the Lash - The Pogues
Blood on the Tacks - Bob Dylan
Eat a Peach - Allman Brothers
Tennessee - Lucero
Disraeli Gears - Cream (I'm a Clapton fan)
Illmatic - Nas (I'm not a hip white kid I just have always loved the sound of this record, probably listened to it more than anything else)
Rum, Sodomy, and the Lash - The Pogues
Blood on the Tacks - Bob Dylan
Eat a Peach - Allman Brothers
Tennessee - Lucero
Disraeli Gears - Cream (I'm a Clapton fan)
Illmatic - Nas (I'm not a hip white kid I just have always loved the sound of this record, probably listened to it more than anything else)
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