Diamond Dore
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| Number of Posts: | 7 |
| Registered on: | 3/3/2021 |
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re: Mainieri vs Corbin Head-to-Head Comparison
Posted by Diamond Dore on 4/4/21 at 9:14 pm to Diamond Dore
Take Kumar Rocker and Jack Leiter, for example. Both have parents that are former professional athletes and multi-millionaires. Neither qualify for Opportunity Vanderbilt.
And let's be candid, if one of them really wanted to play in Starkville or Baton Rouge, and their parents really felt like that was the place that would prepare them best for the major leagues, do you really think $10K per year in unfunded scholarship would've made the difference? To kids that turned down 2 or even 3 million in MLB signing bonus money?
Similarly, Leiter and others came from private high schools where tuition might range from $20K to upwards of $40K per year. These families dropped between a quarter million to half a million on an education they could have received for free at a public school. Cost is not their primary concern. Many of them come from the type of families that have full 529 accounts.
It's not every player, obviously, but there are plenty that it applies to. Will Toffey chose to play baseball at Vanderbilt instead of Hockey at Yale. JJ Bleday had a brother playing at Penn and other family members who were athletes at Ivy League schools.
And let's be candid, if one of them really wanted to play in Starkville or Baton Rouge, and their parents really felt like that was the place that would prepare them best for the major leagues, do you really think $10K per year in unfunded scholarship would've made the difference? To kids that turned down 2 or even 3 million in MLB signing bonus money?
Similarly, Leiter and others came from private high schools where tuition might range from $20K to upwards of $40K per year. These families dropped between a quarter million to half a million on an education they could have received for free at a public school. Cost is not their primary concern. Many of them come from the type of families that have full 529 accounts.
It's not every player, obviously, but there are plenty that it applies to. Will Toffey chose to play baseball at Vanderbilt instead of Hockey at Yale. JJ Bleday had a brother playing at Penn and other family members who were athletes at Ivy League schools.
re: Mainieri vs Corbin Head-to-Head Comparison
Posted by Diamond Dore on 4/4/21 at 8:55 pm to Gray Tiger
Honestly, Vanderbilt has an advantage with Oppotrunity Vanderbilt (the financial aid program) but quite frankly, it isn't nearly the advantage that everyone thinks it is.
The reason is that much like other schools, Vanderbilt has a "pool" that it fishes out of, and that pool doesn't necessarily overlap with everyone else.
Florida and LSU have advantages in terms of location and talent pools that are in state, in addition to programs like TOPS or HOPE-type scholarships.
Opportunity Vanderbilt helps level the playing field, but to be honest, there are some cases, in some of our more high profile players, that it really isn't even a factor. I'll explain more in my next post.
The reason is that much like other schools, Vanderbilt has a "pool" that it fishes out of, and that pool doesn't necessarily overlap with everyone else.
Florida and LSU have advantages in terms of location and talent pools that are in state, in addition to programs like TOPS or HOPE-type scholarships.
Opportunity Vanderbilt helps level the playing field, but to be honest, there are some cases, in some of our more high profile players, that it really isn't even a factor. I'll explain more in my next post.
re: Ranking the SEC baseball coaches
Posted by Diamond Dore on 3/3/21 at 10:38 pm to RD Dawg
MedDawg,
It's not a full scholarship for all the non-scholarships and walk-ons---it depends upon their individual financial circumstances, but they can apply just as every other Vanderbilt student can apply.
Here is a brochure which is a few years old, but it gives you the idea:LINK
It's not a full scholarship for all the non-scholarships and walk-ons---it depends upon their individual financial circumstances, but they can apply just as every other Vanderbilt student can apply.
Here is a brochure which is a few years old, but it gives you the idea:LINK
re: Ranking the SEC baseball coaches
Posted by Diamond Dore on 3/3/21 at 9:26 pm to RD Dawg
Fair point. I edited my original post. Maybe a non-issue. But many high net worth families that have access to financial planning have probably considered the possibility of it. They think of everything. They aren't necessarily like your average family. They pay people to find every tax advantage that exists.
For example, if someone has a hefty 529 account, they may not necessarily benefit from a completely full scholarship even if offered, because it will cost them tax money to NOT use the 529 funds unless they have another eligible person to pass the 529. They may be paying a certain amount regardless, whether it's in taxes or tuition, so a "full scholarship" isn't necessarily the enticement it would be to an average family.
For example, if someone has a hefty 529 account, they may not necessarily benefit from a completely full scholarship even if offered, because it will cost them tax money to NOT use the 529 funds unless they have another eligible person to pass the 529. They may be paying a certain amount regardless, whether it's in taxes or tuition, so a "full scholarship" isn't necessarily the enticement it would be to an average family.
re: Ranking the SEC baseball coaches
Posted by Diamond Dore on 3/3/21 at 9:16 pm to RD Dawg
There are ways you can establish legal residency in the state where you attend college. I don't know if Swanson or Bleday did so, but it would be a smart move and save a chunk of money in the case of a high first round pick. Might not be worth the hassle for everyone, but someone who knows they are going to be a high pick might benefit from it.
re: Ranking the SEC baseball coaches
Posted by Diamond Dore on 3/3/21 at 8:34 pm to Diamond Dore
1. Wealth--like it or not, a lot of baseball recruiting centers around travel teams. It typically takes money to consistently make the sacrifices that travel ball requires year after year. These types of families often appreciate the academic reputation that a school like Vanderbilt can offer. And those kids do not always qualify for Opportunity Vanderbilt funds.
2. Academics--many times hand in hand with socio-economics. Look at the number of private high schools that show up on baseball rosters vs. some other sports. A family dropping anywhere from $20K to $40K a year all the way up from K-12 isn't necessarily making their decisions based a few thousand dollars here or there.
As an example, I know a wealthy family that actually stopped contributing to their kids' 529 account because by making the maximum contribution each year it was growing too large. If those kids are athletes, they'll make a decision based on where they want to go as opposed to the amount of scholarship money, because it's already taken care of. JJ Bleday had three family members that were athletes in the Ivy League, including a brother that played at Penn. Will Toffey chose to play baseball at Vanderbilt as opposed to his hockey offer from Yale. Those types of recruits I'm sure Corbin is competing as much with Stanford or Duke as Ole Miss or Arkansas, even though the latter are great baseball schools.
3. Competition--Baseball is favorable to Vanderbilt from a competitive standpoint based not just on who they can recruit, but who their SEC opponents don't necessarily get. In football or basketball, the kid that reads on an 8th grade level can not even be recruited at Vanderbilt, but he might line up against the Commodores for a conference opponent. Baseball is different in that kids that aren't interested in school don't get shoehorned into college. They just go to the minors if they have no interest in class.
4. I think a couple of years ago the average student loan for members of the Vanderbilt baseball team was something like $19K. Some kids probably went free, while others may have been paying a lot. But there are a lot of misconceptions. It's been well documented that Dansby Swanson took out student loans. Ended up being worth it for him, because he went 1-1 in the draft. Which brings me to...
5. No income tax---Tennessee is a no income tax state, which means that if Dansby Swanson or JJ Bleday paid FULL PRICE at Vanderbilt over a full scholarship to Ole Miss or Miss. State, they still could theoretically come out ahead financially if they established residency in Tennessee, because of the 5% income tax in Mississippi on their 6 million dollar plus signing bonuses. At a certain level of the draft, for students like Rocker and Leiter, that matters too.
Vanderbilt is at a major disadvantage in admissions in several sports, and they're at a facilities and resource disadvantage in many sports as well. Baseball is a sport where they do have some advantages.
So yes, advantages exist, but it takes a lot of work by Corbin and his staff to make sure those come to fruition. He's a phenomenal coach, however, and would likely be successful wherever he went, given enough time. As far as recruiting is concerned I'd argue Florida and LSU have had comparable or even superior talent on many occasions in the last decade, by using the advantages at their disposal, like tradition, facilities and geography.
2. Academics--many times hand in hand with socio-economics. Look at the number of private high schools that show up on baseball rosters vs. some other sports. A family dropping anywhere from $20K to $40K a year all the way up from K-12 isn't necessarily making their decisions based a few thousand dollars here or there.
As an example, I know a wealthy family that actually stopped contributing to their kids' 529 account because by making the maximum contribution each year it was growing too large. If those kids are athletes, they'll make a decision based on where they want to go as opposed to the amount of scholarship money, because it's already taken care of. JJ Bleday had three family members that were athletes in the Ivy League, including a brother that played at Penn. Will Toffey chose to play baseball at Vanderbilt as opposed to his hockey offer from Yale. Those types of recruits I'm sure Corbin is competing as much with Stanford or Duke as Ole Miss or Arkansas, even though the latter are great baseball schools.
3. Competition--Baseball is favorable to Vanderbilt from a competitive standpoint based not just on who they can recruit, but who their SEC opponents don't necessarily get. In football or basketball, the kid that reads on an 8th grade level can not even be recruited at Vanderbilt, but he might line up against the Commodores for a conference opponent. Baseball is different in that kids that aren't interested in school don't get shoehorned into college. They just go to the minors if they have no interest in class.
4. I think a couple of years ago the average student loan for members of the Vanderbilt baseball team was something like $19K. Some kids probably went free, while others may have been paying a lot. But there are a lot of misconceptions. It's been well documented that Dansby Swanson took out student loans. Ended up being worth it for him, because he went 1-1 in the draft. Which brings me to...
5. No income tax---Tennessee is a no income tax state, which means that if Dansby Swanson or JJ Bleday paid FULL PRICE at Vanderbilt over a full scholarship to Ole Miss or Miss. State, they still could theoretically come out ahead financially if they established residency in Tennessee, because of the 5% income tax in Mississippi on their 6 million dollar plus signing bonuses. At a certain level of the draft, for students like Rocker and Leiter, that matters too.
Vanderbilt is at a major disadvantage in admissions in several sports, and they're at a facilities and resource disadvantage in many sports as well. Baseball is a sport where they do have some advantages.
So yes, advantages exist, but it takes a lot of work by Corbin and his staff to make sure those come to fruition. He's a phenomenal coach, however, and would likely be successful wherever he went, given enough time. As far as recruiting is concerned I'd argue Florida and LSU have had comparable or even superior talent on many occasions in the last decade, by using the advantages at their disposal, like tradition, facilities and geography.
re: Ranking the SEC baseball coaches
Posted by Diamond Dore on 3/3/21 at 8:17 pm to gamecockman12
Although the Vanderbilt advantage exists, it is overblown. Kumar Rocker and Jack Leiter are both the sons of multimillionaire former professional athletes, and they both reportedly turned down over $2 million offers from MLB to go to college. The idea that they would've gone to Starkville or Oxford if only a few more thousand dollars in scholarships were on the table isn't realistic. They could've attended any school in the country with no concerns about finances.
The economics of college baseball are favorable to Vanderbilt for several reasons, which I'll outline in my next post.
The economics of college baseball are favorable to Vanderbilt for several reasons, which I'll outline in my next post.
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