bayoubengals88

Ultimately, this may be the worst day in the young history of this company with the delayed ARR and the Jenson news.
He's out.

Can the ecosystem continue?
This uncertainty will sting.

quote:

---

You just have a Catholic perspective, and adopting psuedo-works based salvation and pseudo-Divine worship of Mary is why I will never be Catholic.

---

The works based salvation part is all about framing. My paradigm on this has shifted, and I no longer view sacraments as a work, but closer to something like participation in divine grace.

I'm getting much more comfortable in saying that we need to participate in our salvation to remain engrafted in it.

I don't see how that's unbiblical. I do, however, see how it can be made to sound unbiblical. It's all about the framing.
--------
You make a decision for Christ, you don't do anything afterward. What do you have? Likewise, you get baptized as an infant, you don't do anything afterward, what do you have?

So yes, I'm beginning to think that there's actually quite the argument for the notion that you can reject Christ after once having been united with him.

Traditions that Deny Baptismal Regeneration

• Baptists and Anabaptists: Reject baptismal regeneration, viewing baptism strictly as an outward, symbolic public profession of an already-completed internal conversion and faith.
• Reformed and Presbyterian Traditions (Calvinist): Deny that the water itself magically or automatically effects salvation (ex opere operato). Instead, they view baptism as an objective covenantal sign and seal of God's grace that accompanies faith or marks a child into the covenant community, while reserving true internal regeneration to the sovereign work of the Holy Spirit...and even still, this is a fine line.


Branches/Denominations that Affirm Baptismal Regeneration

• Roman Catholic Church: Teaches that baptism is a sacrament of faith that washes away original and actual sin, bestows sanctifying grace, and incorporates the person into the Body of Christ.
• Eastern and Oriental Orthodox Churches: View baptism as a genuine "new birth" and washing of sins, uniting the believer to the death and resurrection of Christ.
• Lutheran Churches: Following Martin Luther's Small and Large Catechisms, Lutherans view baptism as a "laver of regeneration" where God works forgiveness of sins, delivers from death and the devil, and imparts eternal salvation.
• Churches of Christ (Restoration Movement): Strenuously promote the necessity of water baptism for the remission of sins and salvation, pointing to passages such as Acts 2:38 and Mark 16:16.
• Certain Anglicans/Episcopalians: Hold a sacramental view of baptism as an effective sign of grace and rebirth, though views span across Anglo-Catholic and Reformed-leaning wings within the communion.
• Methodist / Wesleyan Tradition: Holds a nuanced view where baptism is a "means of grace"; John Wesley distinguished adult conversion from baptism while retaining the validity of infant baptism

Rooted in Scripture and Tradition: affirm baptismal regeneration
Rooted in nothing: denies baptismal regeneration

quote:

---

It isn’t. No Christian sect holds that belief.

---

quote:

---

Take it up with the OG Protestant.

Martin Luther vigorously defended infant baptism (paedobaptism) against the Anabaptists ("rebaptizers"), who argued that only consenting adults could be baptized. For Luther, denying baptism to infants was a dangerous distortion of the Gospel, because it shifted the focus of salvation away from God's work and onto human capability.
Luther outlined his theological justification for infant baptism in his Large Catechism and his famous 1528 treatise, Concerning Rebaptism:

1. The Validity Rests on God’s Word, Not Man's Faith

• God is the Actor: Luther argued that baptism is valid purely because of God's command and promise, not the spiritual status or cognitive understanding of the person receiving it.
• The "Gold" Analogy: He noted that if a king gives a peasant a chest of gold, the gold is real and valuable regardless of whether the peasant fully understands its worth at that moment. Similarly, if an adult feigns faith during baptism, the baptism itself is still a true, valid gift of God—it is the person's faith that is lacking, not the sacrament.

2. Infant Baptism Proves Sola Fide (Faith Alone)

• The Purest Form of Grace: Luther believed that infant baptism is actually the most perfect example of salvation by grace alone.
• No Merits or Works: An infant cannot perform good deeds, cannot intellectually reason, and cannot boast about their own choice. If an infant is saved through baptism, it is 100% the passive reception of God's mercy. It strips away all human pride.

---

So, according to you, Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, and historical Protestants are not Christian.
Talk about indefensible.

quote:

---

It’s worse than that. He thinks his kids are regenerated because they were born into a Catholic family. He doesn’t even believe real Catholic doctrine (which is hardly surprising). But it is comical when he says he doesn’t have a private interpretation. When he just has a private interpretation of Catholic doctrine.

---

You know that real Protestants baptize infants as well, right?
My kids were not baptized catholic.
And the regeneration comment was admittedly, bait.

But it's also defensible.

Oh, silly evangelicals.
Ever stuck in your adolescent thoughts.

quote:

---

This is unintentionally hilarious and also sad.

---

Take it up with the OG Protestant.

Martin Luther vigorously defended infant baptism (paedobaptism) against the Anabaptists ("rebaptizers"), who argued that only consenting adults could be baptized. For Luther, denying baptism to infants was a dangerous distortion of the Gospel, because it shifted the focus of salvation away from God's work and onto human capability.
Luther outlined his theological justification for infant baptism in his Large Catechism and his famous 1528 treatise, Concerning Rebaptism:

1. The Validity Rests on God’s Word, Not Man's Faith

• God is the Actor: Luther argued that baptism is valid purely because of God's command and promise, not the spiritual status or cognitive understanding of the person receiving it.
• The "Gold" Analogy: He noted that if a king gives a peasant a chest of gold, the gold is real and valuable regardless of whether the peasant fully understands its worth at that moment. Similarly, if an adult feigns faith during baptism, the baptism itself is still a true, valid gift of God—it is the person's faith that is lacking, not the sacrament.

2. Infant Baptism Proves Sola Fide (Faith Alone)

• The Purest Form of Grace: Luther believed that infant baptism is actually the most perfect example of salvation by grace alone.
• No Merits or Works: An infant cannot perform good deeds, cannot intellectually reason, and cannot boast about their own choice. If an infant is saved through baptism, it is 100% the passive reception of God's mercy. It strips away all human pride.

quote:

---

This is unintentionally hilarious and also sad.

---

I’m not sad about a perspective that is biblically and historically impeccable as well as believed by most Christians today.

Here’s your challenge:

“Scot McKnight has his finger on a sore spot in contemporary Christianity, particularly in America. For many people, “the gospel” has shrunk right down to a statement about Jesus’ death and its meaning, and a prayer with which people accept it. That matters, the way the rotor blades of a helicopter matter. You won’t get off the ground without them. But rotor blades alone don’t make a helicopter. And a microcosmic theory of atonement and faith don’t, by themselves, make up “the gospel.” N.T. Wright in the forward to The King Jesus Gospel: The Original Good News Revisited

This book had to be written to remind people who hold views that are 200 years old that they should adopt views that are 2,000 years old.

quote:

---

Yes. If you have no idea what the Biblical narrative of the Gospel of Jesus Christ is, I’m sure you could believe this.

---

Loving others? Actively participating in the Kingdom that Jesus inaugurated? Seems like pretty standard Gospel stuff to me.

quote:

---

Therr are people who truly believe Talafreako is a Christian preaching a Christian message.

---

He is, partially. If you can't see this you may be the one who needs more education.

He's certainly wrong on some key issues, but by and large, his general message aligns with the Biblical narrative of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.