Obtuse1

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Jewelers have difficulty telling them apart

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Not suprising most tend not to know watches very well. If a professional or even an amateur watchmaker is fooled, they should throw their tools out.

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the movement is even the same and so are the inside parts.

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I will make the 100% real offer I make to anyone who makes these claims. Bring any number of Rolex and fakes you want to my home, their must be at least 25% or more real Rolexes in the group. We can go back to my watchmaking bench, and I will identify each movement as fake or real within 15 seconds of having the case back off, not using my microscope or loups just with my unaided eyes. I will be 100% correct and If I am not I will pay you full Rolex retail for every fake and if I am 100% you gove me all the Rolexes and we go out to the garage and I will smash the fakes.

If you have frankens in the group I will need more time and if I am not allowed to open the casebacks I will need more time still. Hell, if you tell me the reference, I can be ~90% accurate blindfolded.

There is an entire business model built around scaring the shite out of people, and they should be mindful but they all have multiple flaws not because a counterfeit can't be made to fool people with actual knowledge, but it just isn't economically feasible. This isn't just the Chinese either it is pampant in watches period. There are a whole plethora of issues with the 6265 "Unicorn" that sold for almost $6 million back in IIRC 2017. I think there is a better than 50% chance it is a franken.

Honestly, on the wrist I and anyone can be fooled, but I honestly don't care about that only if I or someone I know is a potential buyer. I do think the root of making cosmetically similar movements in closed case Rolex references are primarily driven by the demand for counterfeits that can be resold as real, and the same thing, to a lesser extent, drives the demand for boxes, filled out warranty cards, hang tags, and anchors. This is also part of the reason there is a strong secondary market for these sorts of real accessories.

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How’s the Miyota 8S20? Say compared to a 4r36?

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Most consider the 4r36/HN36 to be superior given the more efficient winding mechanism, hacking, and hand winding. My only grip with the 8000 series Miyotas is the indirect second-hand drive, which can lead to the Miyota shudder. Some people don't like the "wobble" the unidirectional rotor can cause, but I kinda find it endearing, like the 7750 wobble. It makes the watch feel alive, and it isn't as loud as the Valjoux/ETA/clone 775X movements.

I will say I love the Seiko/SII NH3X movements. They are robust, and the easiest movement I have ever serviced outside movements originally used in pocket watches. Other than someone like me who does it for fun, they are too inexpensive to pay someone to service, just buy a new one and swap them.

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I ran across a homage I had to buy. It is a fairly faithful homage to the Omega Seamaster 1000 prototype with the 1310 Megaquartz movement from the 70s. A homage to a 1970s one off prototype is one I can get behind. I'll post a picture of it when I get home this evening.

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AliX homage of the prototype



Omega prototype



The only detail they didn't copy that I wished they had was the asymmetrical bezel. It is one of the interesting and fairly unusual details, but obviously a cost-cutting choice, just like using the bezel and insert from their modern Ploppy homage.

The Omega prototype failed because nobody in the entire Omega engineering department forsaw a non-thermocompensated movement like the Megaquartz 1310 would lose gobs of time in the frigid water of saturation diving, a potential death sentence to a diver that relied on it.

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Can you recommend something with a perpetual calendar?

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Perpetual calender
"investment potential" (a rocky road to drive)
under $75k

Let's deal with the first one that dovetails into the second one. You need to be aware of the care and feeding required to own a PC. First, they are. expensive to maintain (keeping in mind meeting #2) and they have a complex setting procedure if left not running often requiring a trip to the factory, and improper attempts to set them can result in major issues. They are watches best kept running. This is the reason I have never owned nor been interested in a PC outside quartz beaters, which I prefer to have a PC function, and why I "hate" Seiko for discontinuing the 8F56 movement. I have waxed poetic about that movement here and far and wide.

Investment potential is hard physical asset classes are dangerous, but they work when you really enjoy them and get benefits even if they don't pan out like you wished. This doesn't happen with say gold bullion unless you are Smaug and I guess it was his undoing too. The appeal of watches is lost if they get tucked away in a vault.

PC and investment potential lead you to one brand at the price point, and that is Patek. What you are looking for is to buy a future 2499 or 1518 before the proces skyrocket. That is harder to do with neo-vintage watches because production numbers climbed and near impossible with current catalog models because everyone keeps box and papers and treats them like an investment. Other brands that have a following, along with low production numbers and potential to appreciate are going to be over the price-point.

If I was pressed for advice here, I would point someone toward a Patek cushion-cased PC. My first choice would be a 5020 TV screen but that time may have passed for a sub 75K version without stories. You need to invest the time to understand what you are seeking like you would if you were buying a 1966 Shelby GT350H because they can also be trash or treasure. I would watch the market, try to buy in a dip and score a good example of a 5020R, I suspect there will be periods when the rose gold is much more sought after than the yellow gold. The 5020P with a salmon dial would be my choice but that is closing in on 10X your budget. Even a good 5020 in white or yellow gold may be a bridge to far but worth the hunt IMO. The 5020G in white gold is a great stealth wealth watch.

The 5940 is where you are more likely to land. The white gold w/ black dial may be doable, but it isn't my favorite but it is rarer. The 5940R (rose gold) would allow you to find an excellent example in your price range they are probably near or at their price nadir, and I think they are a gorgeous watch but I have a soft spot for the Patek cushion-cased PCs and their lower production numbers tend to highlight a potential investment. With watches, you look for the unloved because their rarity and quirkiness are often what drives collectors mad years later. Look at the prices of Rolex 6541 Milgauss and 4 digit Daytonas. Both unloved slow sellers when new that saw 100X returns over their lifetimes.

My overall advice is to buy what you love and will wear and invest any excess in traditional investments. However, with your criteria there is really only one path.


Not so hot take from the investment angle: Buy a nice vintage Raketa Rocket/College and kinda sorta scratch the PC itch and have a intersting conversation starter (I would accost you on the street if I saw it on your wrist). Buy a 3k to 10k watch you would love to have on your wrist every day. Then take the remaining balance and chase potential 10xers. (edit: by 10xers I mean high-risk potential high-return traditional investments like equities) You have a much higher chance of owing a shite load of capital gains tax, although they are much easier to "avoid" on physical asset classes like watches.

If you want one of the coolest PCs, were not worried about investment and willing to patiently wait until examples of IWC's eternal calender drop under $75k... they will. The thing is momentous.





Guess I should add pics of the Pateks:

5020r



5940r

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I really dig what Florida has been doing lately with testing and reporting on widely used foods.

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California is by far the leader in this and has been for many years.

Compared to standard glossy paint matte is a nightmare to maintain. It is also expensive to repair. I like the look on certain cars, not so much on others. The general rule with matte paint is to get a full PPF wrap, even then it takes the right film and the right installer to get a good job. That makes more financial sense preserving the paint on a $200k+ car than it does on a $60k car.

I would consider matte for a weekend car but never on a daily driver.

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I hate when new words are invented for stupid shite.

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If you are talking about sillage, the word has been around since the French started building boats, and its use as a term of art in the fragrance industry has existed longer than you have been alive.

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screwdriver for this will be on Temu in a week.

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This is the biggest non-issue I have seen move from the automotive press to the mainstream in a long time. Over the years, I have added removal and repolacement tools for: metric, torx, security tork, e-torx, spline, hex, ecx, 6 lobe, pentalobe, square, square/slot, triangle, Y type, tri wing, s type, clutch, spanner, along with a army of tools to remove and replace various hose clamps, hoses, and electrical connectors. This doesn't even mention all the electrical and OBD2 diag equipment.

Car are getting more complex and for various reasons people love it since you see almost no poverty spec cars being bought. Furthermore, most people opining about this across the internet don't even own a set of e-torx sockets and weren't going to get very far under the hood of a German car anyway.

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overwhelming sense of deep sadness

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Be honest, this is a result of your lord and savior, Top G, getting beat like one of his cam girls late for work... by an influencer.

Just got to the camp and unboxed my pre-Champagne choices:

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$400 labor to change the plugs? Do they have pull the engine or disassemble half the front end to get to the plugs?

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Not much of an issue with MOST longitudinal engines but some of the transverse engines will book 2 hours plus in labor.