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re: Good article on Fromm
Posted on 12/6/19 at 9:35 am to NCdawgfan34
Posted on 12/6/19 at 9:35 am to NCdawgfan34
quote:
Hold on are you trying to compare Fromm's talent to Greg McElroy
I asked a question. Feel free to answer it.
Posted on 12/6/19 at 10:02 am to NCdawgfan34
quote:
Hold on are you trying to compare Fromm's talent to Greg McElroy GTFO go back to playing fricking soccer you don't know this sport.
They're physically limited, above average game managing QBs. Neither had anywhere close to elite arm strength. Neither was very athletic. Both played with elite defenses and great offensive lines. I don't see much of a difference.
Posted on 12/6/19 at 10:04 am to HTDawg
Seriously, enough of the same Jake Fromm thread over and over and over again. Everyone is well-versed in how just about every poster on this board feels about our QB. The horse is dead and grounded meat at this point. Stop beating it.
Posted on 12/6/19 at 10:13 am to Cobb Dawg
quote:
It takes time for a QB and receiver corps to learn a new system and all get on the same page with trust, routes, timing, etc.
An entire season isn't enough time?
This article is biased garbage from a guy with a vested interest in the draft prospects of his student.
Fromm has sucked this year. I don't care if you want to blame coaching, the WRs, Fromm himself, or a mixture of all 3, but he's sucked. A 3 year starter, finishing his 3rd season, shouldn't have difficult completing simple passes or avoiding 11 3andouts in a single game.
For his sake, I hope he doesn't shite the bed again tomorrow or the kid gloves the fans and media have been wearing are about to come off.
Posted on 12/6/19 at 11:22 am to HTDawg
quote:So instead of addressing his actual arguments/statements, you are dismissing everything he says because of a conflict of interest?
What do you expect him to say when it's his pupil that is stinking the joint up? It reflects negatively on him. He's just protecting his arse.
quote:He was actually making a comparison to arguably the greatest QB in NFL history by pointing out that even the best QBs can struggle without help. His point--and one that I and others have made--is that a pure pocket passing QB (like Brady is) is only as good as his supporting cast, and Brady, like Fromm, is working with a mostly new WR group that hasn't been on the same page for most of the season, resulting in what is being interpreted as QB struggles.
The fact that the only explanation he could make for Fromm is comparing him to an aging 42 year old NFL QB is pathetic.
Pinpoint throws, perfect ball decisions, correct reads, etc. are not going to result in much if the team isn't working like a team. You can point to a few missed throws by Fromm but those don't tell the whole story for the season. They are just convenient outs for you to ignore the truth.
Posted on 12/6/19 at 11:29 am to VADawg
quote:It has everything to do with the argument. It's context, something which is important for those who want to take thinking seriously.
That has nothing to do with this season. He has not played well. That needs to change tomorrow.
The reason why previous seasons were mentioned is because Fromm has been exceptional for most of his tenure at UGA, protecting the ball while using our offense to help get us in the right place to move the ball and score points.
The reason why context is important is because you can't say that Fromm has always played this way. If he's played three seasons and has struggled in his third season compared to the previous two, you have to consider why that may be. What are the differences between this season and the previous two that could explain the difference in offensive output, especially with our passing game? This is why context is important.
Posted on 12/6/19 at 11:47 am to djsdawg
quote:Recall what I said about critical thinking? What you're currently engaging in is an ad hominem logical fallacy that attempts to dismiss an argument based on the character (or interest) of the one making the argument.
Some obvious conflicts of interest there, as his own qb coach has every reason to talk his qb up. Before recently, I would have expected you to be smart enough to understand that his lack of objectivity diminishes whatever he says.
quote:What he said was within the overall context of performance. It wasn't a deflection at all.
What did he say to deflect from the struggles?
1. He brought up TEAM record
2. He brought up lack of ints
3. He trash talks anyone who think Fromm hasn’t played good.
4. He says he is proud of him and that Fromm will have a good day.
That’s some weak arse support, so there wasn’t much to diminish there, yet you are trying to spin it into something strong. As expected.
1. The team record is an indication of Fromm's contributions, at least in part
2. The lack of INTs is an indication of Fromm's contributions, at least in part
3. He didn't trash talk: he said, "There’s a lot of people who don’t know that they’re looking at and don’t know what’s going on who just take for granted how good Jake Fromm is." This is entirely true. You are a prime example of this.
4. Saying he's proud of Fromm isn't a deflection
What you failed to include are the actual issues that were brought up, which are the new group of receivers that he's struggled to get in a rhythm with all season and the new OC and absence of Jay Johnson, which are the issues that others like myself have been calling out all season.
Posted on 12/6/19 at 11:47 am to FooManChoo
quote:
You can point to a few missed throws by Fromm but those don't tell the whole story for the season. They are just convenient outs for you to ignore the truth.
The story of the season changes if he simply makes those open throws. Would be far less venom if he simply held up on his end.
Posted on 12/6/19 at 11:55 am to mmmmmbeeer
quote:Ignorance.
Fromm has sucked this year.
He's got a 62% completion percentage; he's thrown 21 TDs to only 3 INTs; and he's helped his team to an 11-1 record and the SECCG for the third straight season. I don't really get your definition of "sucked". His numbers haven't been quite as good as last season but I'm making an argument as to why that's the case that extends beyond the superficial "Fromm sucks".
Posted on 12/6/19 at 12:02 pm to djsdawg
quote:Statistically, he'd have a few more TDs, maybe a couple hundred more yards, and we'd win a few games by a few more scores. That doesn't change the vast majority of the issues we've had this season. Every QB has throws that they wish they'd have back, but there's a bigger problem with our offense than those few missed throws this season and that's what I'm trying to point out to those who have a myopic view of football like you do.
The story of the season changes if he simply makes those open throws. Would be far less venom if he simply held up on his end
Posted on 12/6/19 at 12:07 pm to mmmmmbeeer
quote:
Fromm has sucked this year.
Sucked to 11-1 in the SEC. Glad our standards have been allowed to be raised to this level.
Posted on 12/6/19 at 12:15 pm to Cobb Dawg
quote:
Sucked to 11-1 in the SEC. Glad our standards have been allowed to be raised to this level.
This team's record is thanks to the defense and special teams. The offense blows. Without the defense, Rod, and Camarda, we're probably a 6-7 win team.
He's a 3rd year QB who came into this season with many mock drafts having him being a 1st round NFL pick. 21TDs, 3int, and 62% completion for a guy who can't run or elude defenses, surrounded by great talent at the skills positions, is an AWFUL season. Kyle Trask has had a much better season than Jake.
It's impossible to watch these games and think, "huh, Jake looks fricking great!". It's delusional.
Posted on 12/6/19 at 12:18 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
So instead of addressing his actual arguments/statements, you are dismissing everything he says because of a conflict of interest?
When his response to Fromm not even completing 50% of his passes is "so what", you're damn right I dismiss.
quote:
He was actually making a comparison to arguably the greatest QB in NFL history by pointing out that even the best QBs can struggle without help. His point--and one that I and others have made--is that a pure pocket passing QB (like Brady is) is only as good as his supporting cast, and Brady, like Fromm, is working with a mostly new WR group that hasn't been on the same page for most of the season, resulting in what is being interpreted as QB struggles.
Fromm shouldn't be mentioned within screaming distance of Tom Brady. The situations are not similar. Tom Brady has had new receivers and no name receivers throughout his career, and it has never affected him. In fact, talking heads have always joked about how it didn't matter who Brady was throwing to. The simple fact is he's 42 and his skills are deteriorating.
Posted on 12/6/19 at 12:21 pm to Cobb Dawg
quote:
Sucked to 11-1 in the SEC.
You know damn why we're 11-1. It's because of the defense and special teams. It sure as hell has little to do with our offense or our QB. Fromm is why we have one loss instead of being undefeated.
Posted on 12/6/19 at 12:53 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
hominem logical fallacy that attempts to dismiss an argument based on the character (or interest) of the one making the argument.
Either there is a conflict of interest or not. You should understand the issue with such bias, but since it supports your own bias, you are choosing to ignore that.
That guys aim was to paint Fromm in the manner which makes Fromm look far better than he has been, and he did exactly that, which proves my COI point.
As expected, you loved it when he ignored Fromm missed open passes and deflected his diminished his completion %. Bringing up a team accomplishment to excuse this struggles is weak. They are 2 different subjects. The only good point he made was about the lack of interceptions.
quote:
What you failed to include are the actual issues that were brought up
Correct. I only discussed what fromm’s biased coach said. The other issues were brought up by chip towers, and while they are real factors, none of them explain away Fromm missing open guys too often.
Posted on 12/6/19 at 1:06 pm to HTDawg
I "know damn why" Fromm's numbers aren't what they have been. He has a new system and a turnstile of receivers. Tell me know you think Burrow would fare if he was in the same situation. Dude has 3 NFL receivers to throw to. Fromm lost 75% of his '18 receiver production in Hardman, Nauta, Godwin and Holloman, and now has lost Cager. If you think you can just plug and play receivers, you don't know much about football. QBs and receivers have to be on the same page to be successful. Then you throw in the new coordinator and you have a recipe for struggle. You blame all of that on the only cog in the system who has been a proven success?
Posted on 12/6/19 at 1:34 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
Statistically, he'd have a few more TDs, maybe a couple hundred more yards, and we'd win a few games by a few more scores. That doesn't change the vast majority of the issues we've had this season. Every QB has throws that they wish they'd have back, but there's a bigger problem with our offense than those few missed throws this season and that's what I'm trying to point out to those who have a myopic view of football like you do.
Those stat increases would be huge.
Fromm has played a much major role in the “bigger problems” than you are willing to admit.
If Fromm provided a more consistent downfield threat by throwing good passes to open wrs, it’s very likely the “bigger problems” you love to focus on wouldn’t be big problems to begin with:
1. Opposing Defenses would be forced to account for it, which should help open up the run game and the underneath passing game.
2. Opposing offenses would likely have to adjust their overall strategy, thus making them more predictable.
Result: a better overall team. Better chances of winning sec and national championships. You know, the opposite of myopic.
Posted on 12/6/19 at 1:35 pm to Cobb Dawg
quote:
Tell me know you think Burrow would fare if he was in the same situation
Far better.
Posted on 12/6/19 at 1:37 pm to djsdawg
quote:
Far better.
How do you propose he would do better?
Posted on 12/6/19 at 1:43 pm to Cobb Dawg
quote:
How do you propose he would do better?
Obviously, He wouldnt miss as many open passes as Fromm does.
More specifically, he would use his feet to escape pressure, which opens up qb runs, and enables wrs to get open.
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