Started By
Message
re: Will A&M and Mizzou get the treatment that Arky and USCe got
Posted on 3/29/14 at 1:07 pm to Cockopotamus
Posted on 3/29/14 at 1:07 pm to Cockopotamus
quote:
You serious? The SWC was done only 4 years after Arky left.
USC was a charter member of the ACC and left in the early 70s but its still going today.
If anybody blazed the trail to leave their conference, it was USC, not Arkansas.
Without Frank Broyles (Arkansas AD, Georgia Tech Grad) playing golf at Augusta (1989) with then SEC commissioner there never would've been an SEC Championship game and USC never would've been invited.
Coach Broyles tried to get Texas and Texas A&M to come along with us to form the first super conference. Without that Georgia boy at Arkansas things would've been very different.
It's all in his book with quotes from all the SEC power players back then. Of course the SWC only lasted a handful of years later because Texas and Texas A&M realized how much they screwed up and tried to build the same model with Nebraska, OU and Colorado all winning national titles at the time.
This post was edited on 3/29/14 at 1:12 pm
0
Posted on 3/29/14 at 1:12 pm to Porky
quote:
Arkansas has never been fully accepted anywhere anyway, so we're immune to the treatment.
It's because Arkansas is an abortion of a state and the people there are insufferable fatasses
Posted on 3/29/14 at 1:13 pm to DoUrden
What treatment did we get? Arkansas gets shite on way more than us.
I think we were more readily accepted because:
1. Arkansas was more of a threat upon joining. It took them four years to get to the SEC CG while it took us 18. Arkansas has four division titles we have one. It's not a fun thing to say as a USC fan but it is true.
2. USC was more familiar to SEC fans. From the formation of the SEC to the expansion in 1992 Arkansas played 60 games with SEC opponents while South Carolina played 78. 70% of Arky's opponents were LSU and OM while South Carolina played a broader field. USC was also a Southern Conference Member back in the olden days with the 10 original SEC schools. Arkansas was not.
3. South Carolina was a better cultural fit. South Carolina served as the progenitor for most other Southern states and deeply influenced the development of the region and as such has much in common, culturally and historically speaking, with other SEC states. Arkansas not so much. USC is also geographically closer to other SEC schools than Arkansas.
4. Arkansas brought a great deal of negative attention on itself. Arkansas football has attracted much more attention than South Carolina because of it's radical vicissitudes and recent record of coaching buffoonery.
So I think USC had it easy. We already had a lot in common with other conference schools and we had Arkansas to draw much of the flak so we made a clean entry.
A&M and Mizzou will have it much tougher for reasons that have already been discussed in detail on the rant. Culture, history, geography etc...
I think we were more readily accepted because:
1. Arkansas was more of a threat upon joining. It took them four years to get to the SEC CG while it took us 18. Arkansas has four division titles we have one. It's not a fun thing to say as a USC fan but it is true.
2. USC was more familiar to SEC fans. From the formation of the SEC to the expansion in 1992 Arkansas played 60 games with SEC opponents while South Carolina played 78. 70% of Arky's opponents were LSU and OM while South Carolina played a broader field. USC was also a Southern Conference Member back in the olden days with the 10 original SEC schools. Arkansas was not.
3. South Carolina was a better cultural fit. South Carolina served as the progenitor for most other Southern states and deeply influenced the development of the region and as such has much in common, culturally and historically speaking, with other SEC states. Arkansas not so much. USC is also geographically closer to other SEC schools than Arkansas.
4. Arkansas brought a great deal of negative attention on itself. Arkansas football has attracted much more attention than South Carolina because of it's radical vicissitudes and recent record of coaching buffoonery.
So I think USC had it easy. We already had a lot in common with other conference schools and we had Arkansas to draw much of the flak so we made a clean entry.
A&M and Mizzou will have it much tougher for reasons that have already been discussed in detail on the rant. Culture, history, geography etc...
Posted on 3/29/14 at 1:14 pm to KSGamecock
Posted on 3/29/14 at 1:20 pm to KSGamecock
quote:
A&M and Mizzou will have it much tougher for reasons that have already been discussed in detail on the rant. Culture, history, geography etc...
Classic example that if you repeat something enough, it must be true. Granted Missouri is a mid west state but with tons of southern influence and border other SEC states. Mizzou will fit in just fine with the three criteria's you listed, regardless what the Rant thinks.
Posted on 3/29/14 at 1:27 pm to Gradual_Stroke
quote:
It's because Arkansas is an abortion of a state and the people there are insufferable fatasses
That has nothing to do with the fact that Arkansas is better than A&M.Posted on 3/29/14 at 1:31 pm to Mizzou4ever
quote:
Classic example that if you repeat something enough, it must be true. Granted Missouri is a mid west state but with tons of southern influence and border other SEC states. Mizzou will fit in just fine with the three criteria's you listed, regardless what the Rant thinks.
Did I say Missouri would never fit in?
I said that it will have a tougher go of it than Arkansas and South Carolina because of those reasons. It wasn't a "yes/no" type deal, it's a matter of degree.
You think Missouri has more in common with the SEC schools/states than AR or SC did in 1992? I don't.
Those factors absolutely play a role in acceptance into a new conference. To think otherwise is just being fricking dumb.
Posted on 3/29/14 at 1:31 pm to KSGamecock
quote:
3. South Carolina was a better cultural fit. South Carolina served as the progenitor for most other Southern states and deeply influenced the development of the region and as such has much in common, culturally and historically speaking, with other SEC states. Arkansas not so much. USC is also geographically closer to other SEC schools than Arkansas.
How is South Carolina more of a cultural fit? I love these "Superior" type speak from a far Eastern fan base when the history is the same.
Want to go with history we can start here...
Proximity in 1992:
Arkansas played 4 games a year in Little Rock which is extremely close to Ole Miss (180 miles), Vanderbilt, LSU and MSU.
Proximity today:
Accent:
Let's start with what is your definition of culture since we have facts on the table?
P.s. thanks for pointing out Arkansas played the same percentage against SEC opponents as USC before each of us joining the conference.
This post was edited on 3/29/14 at 1:36 pm
Posted on 3/29/14 at 1:37 pm to SunHog
At the end of the day Arkansas will never win the SEC. South Carolina, Mizzou have a better chance, and Texas A&M will win it sooner than all of them.
Posted on 3/29/14 at 1:39 pm to SunHog
I like your cracked.com graphs.
Posted on 3/29/14 at 1:40 pm to KSGamecock
Fair enough. A person sometimes gets tired of reading on the Rant how Mizzou doesn't fit into their perceived idea of where the southern influence starts and stops at, and therefore we don't fit in. 
Posted on 3/29/14 at 1:46 pm to DoUrden
Too early to tell. We should know after they have been in the league a couple of years.
Posted on 3/29/14 at 1:47 pm to SunHog
Your first map:
I'm not saying I don't think that Arkansas is southern, I'm saying that I think SC is more southern.
Trace Southern history and culture back from where it is today. It is a history, at least in the deep south, of people moving east to west and bringing their way of life with them. The general flow is:
England/Scotland -> Barbados -> South Carolina -> Georgia -> Alabama and so on.
They brought the staple crops and chattel slavery with them when each new area opened up. South Carolina was the North American gateway for those settlers destined for the deep south.
The three cultural hearths of American history are:
SC - The South
VA - The mid-Atlantic
Mass - The North
Your second map:
Average distance between Fayetteville and original 10: 623 miles.
Average distance between Columbia and original 10: 420 miles.
The closest original SEC school to Arkansas is Ole Miss at 378 miles away. South Carolina has four SEC schools closer than that: UGA, UT, AU and UF.
The third map: I have no idea what you're trying to show with that. That Arkansans are southern and speak with a southern accent? I never said they didn't.
I'm not saying I don't think that Arkansas is southern, I'm saying that I think SC is more southern.
Trace Southern history and culture back from where it is today. It is a history, at least in the deep south, of people moving east to west and bringing their way of life with them. The general flow is:
England/Scotland -> Barbados -> South Carolina -> Georgia -> Alabama and so on.
They brought the staple crops and chattel slavery with them when each new area opened up. South Carolina was the North American gateway for those settlers destined for the deep south.
The three cultural hearths of American history are:
SC - The South
VA - The mid-Atlantic
Mass - The North
Your second map:
Average distance between Fayetteville and original 10: 623 miles.
Average distance between Columbia and original 10: 420 miles.
The closest original SEC school to Arkansas is Ole Miss at 378 miles away. South Carolina has four SEC schools closer than that: UGA, UT, AU and UF.
The third map: I have no idea what you're trying to show with that. That Arkansans are southern and speak with a southern accent? I never said they didn't.
This post was edited on 3/29/14 at 1:51 pm
Posted on 3/29/14 at 1:53 pm to Mizzou4ever
I give Missouri shite for fun. I have a very attractive blonde friend I've known for years that is a Mizzou girl. It will be fun to mess with her and y'all meth makers coming south every other year.
The Old South is dead and everyone needs to realize it. If coming from the ghetto is the new "southern", I want no part of that because Detoriot has that market cornered.
The Old South is dead and everyone needs to realize it. If coming from the ghetto is the new "southern", I want no part of that because Detoriot has that market cornered.
Posted on 3/29/14 at 2:05 pm to KSGamecock
You didn't listen at all to what I said.
4 games a year were played in Little Rock by Arkansas. Ole Miss is the same distance to Little Rock as Fayetteville.
Take off 200 miles (distance from the hill to the rock) because 4 games a year were played in Little Rock. Now you'll understand why Arkansas was wonderful for western proximity.
The only thing that makes South Carolina more southern is minority population. They had to leave the union first or their state would've ceased to exist. (Reference map)
Now I understand your definition of "Southern" is deepest ties to the Civil War. That's all I wanted to know.
You're right, by that definition South Carolina is more southern than every single southern state without question.
4 games a year were played in Little Rock by Arkansas. Ole Miss is the same distance to Little Rock as Fayetteville.
Take off 200 miles (distance from the hill to the rock) because 4 games a year were played in Little Rock. Now you'll understand why Arkansas was wonderful for western proximity.
The only thing that makes South Carolina more southern is minority population. They had to leave the union first or their state would've ceased to exist. (Reference map)
Now I understand your definition of "Southern" is deepest ties to the Civil War. That's all I wanted to know.
You're right, by that definition South Carolina is more southern than every single southern state without question.
This post was edited on 3/29/14 at 2:13 pm
Posted on 3/29/14 at 2:24 pm to SunHog
Your adding all these meaningless caveats.
"But but but Little Rock!"...but no one gives a shite. The University of Arkansas is in Fayetteville not Little Rock. Don't throw out the "four game a year" line either like you play half your conference games there. Since 1992 you've played 67% of your conference home games in Fayetteville and 76% of your home games since 2000. Even if you played every game in Little Rock, Columbia would still be closer.
The only thing that makes South Carolina more Southern is history, about 190 extra years of it. South Carolina is at the heart of Southern history and development, Arkansas is a border state on the periphery of that development. It's more than just race and the civil war but I will grant you that the definition of what "southern" is and the debate around it will vary from person to person.
"But but but Little Rock!"...but no one gives a shite. The University of Arkansas is in Fayetteville not Little Rock. Don't throw out the "four game a year" line either like you play half your conference games there. Since 1992 you've played 67% of your conference home games in Fayetteville and 76% of your home games since 2000. Even if you played every game in Little Rock, Columbia would still be closer.
The only thing that makes South Carolina more Southern is history, about 190 extra years of it. South Carolina is at the heart of Southern history and development, Arkansas is a border state on the periphery of that development. It's more than just race and the civil war but I will grant you that the definition of what "southern" is and the debate around it will vary from person to person.
This post was edited on 3/29/14 at 2:26 pm
Posted on 3/29/14 at 3:18 pm to KSGamecock
quote:
Your adding all these meaningless caveats.
Meaningless to you yet obvious to the heads at play during that time.
Little Rock to:
Ole Miss: 185
MSU: 280
Vandy: 349 * (East not included)
LSU: 341
Alabama: 366
Auburn: 482
1654
Columbia to:
UGA: 165
Tenn: 263
UF: 357
UK: 443
Vandy: 441
1669
Little Rock is closer to division schools than USC and we played 4 games a year there so it's a wash in distance. Continue to ignore it if you wish.
Do you see why Little Rock mattered? It's the largest Arkansas fan base hub, played 4 games a year there and it's exactly why Arkansas and South Carolina have almost the same percentage of playing SEC foes before joining the conference. You don't know jack about playing games in Little Rock and since 2001 (Stadium Expansion in Fayetteville) took games away from Little Rock. A whole lot of people wanted to expand our Stadium in Little Rock because of proximity and access to the whole state. It didn't happen.
At the end of the day the move was about prestige and power. USC had zero but Arkansas, Texas and Texas A&M had a whole lot. It didn't go down the way it should've but with USC and Arkansas, they helped change the whole SEC.
LSU played as many SWC teams as Arkansas played SEC teams therefore the SEC Conference system was a joke before we joined. LSU has almost no history with Auburn, Kentucky or Georgia.
There is nothing today South Carolina has Arkansas doesn't besides a greater minority population in regards to history. America is now domestically nationalized and the Old South doesn't exist anymore.
For someone who wants to talk about history, you should at least know Arkansas wasn't a border state.
If we are sticking to history, than the state of Arkansas damn sure gave a lot to the South, in contribution to the CSA, much more than Louisiana, Florida or Tennessee and the same as Georgia for example.
We didn't supply thousands of troops to fight for the North like Missouri, Kentucky and Tennessee did.
LINK
If you know anything about Fayetteville, Arkansas then you know the largest and bloodiest battle west of the Mississippi river was fought 15 minutes outside of Fayetteville and Dickson street (Bar scene today) was used as a hospital. Fayetteville was burned to the ground during three different occupations of the South and North.
Here is the house right off Dickson Street in Fayetteville today still with Cannon Ball marks.
This is exactly why this board is laughable when talking about what southern is or isn't?
The Union had control of New Orleans by 1862 and Arkansas was still battling the North into Missouri until a year later. People sound so stupid when they don't have time to put their iPhone down and actually read history.
This post was edited on 3/29/14 at 3:55 pm
Posted on 3/29/14 at 3:39 pm to DoUrden
Apples & oranges. The internets did not exist when we were noobs. The term noob didn't exist, either.
Posted on 3/29/14 at 3:44 pm to SunHog
You play one SEC game a year in LR. One. The university and the overwhelming majority of your conference home games are in Fayetteville.
I never said it was a border state in the Civil War, I was speaking geographically. Arkansas is on the periphery of the South. It borders three southern states and three non-southern states. It's pretty simple.
I never said it was a border state in the Civil War, I was speaking geographically. Arkansas is on the periphery of the South. It borders three southern states and three non-southern states. It's pretty simple.
This post was edited on 3/29/14 at 3:49 pm
Posted on 3/29/14 at 3:52 pm to KSGamecock
quote:
You play one SEC game a year in LR. One. The university and the overwhelming majority of your conference home games are in Fayetteville.
Not in 1992! Today, Yes, and hopefully zero to follow.
quote:
I never said it was a border state in the Civil War, I was speaking geographically. Arkansas is on the periphery of the South. It borders three southern states and three non-southern states. It's pretty simple.
Then you should've made that clear. .. I'm assuming you're counting Texas as not southern?
This post was edited on 3/29/14 at 4:01 pm
Page 2 of 3
Back to top
Follow SECRant for SEC Football News