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re: Which SEC coach has most to gain/lose?
Posted on 4/29/13 at 2:13 pm to engie
Posted on 4/29/13 at 2:13 pm to engie
quote:
Did you have Spurrier on a hot seat after year 4? Surely you did after year 5? He was 28-22(15-17) after year 4 -- on his way to 35-28(18-22) after year 5. It's a lot harder to elevate a program's ceiling than it is to climb to that ceiling -- basically meaning that some jobs are simply much harder builds than others.
frickin' eh right he was on the hot seat after year four and five and he knew it. He almost quit after the loss to UConn because he knew we were about to run his arse out of town.
Then the light came on for him, he signed Lattimore during the off season, got re-motivated, and we buckled-down holding our breath for season six. But make no mistake about it, either he got it done in season six or else he was gone. He had pissed a lot of people off, big time boosters, with his haughty ways when he was not getting the job done and putting-out 100% in year four and five.
People were still pissed after season six but there was noticeable improvement in our OLine and our running game, although many of us thought Spurrier made some major major bone-head bad calls as OC - most memorably at Kentucky. But we beat Georgia, Bama, Tennessee, Florida, Clemson and so on so that helped to defer some of the anger from some of the bone-head hubristic calls he was making back then.
Yet, suddenly it became clear that Spurrier was refocused by then and when he landed Clowney during the off-season we knew he was getting his old mojo back. You could see it in the way he walked and talked and cracked jokes.
And yes, some rebuilding or building jobs are more difficult than others, no doubt about it. But MSU has been saying that for 70 years.
I readily admit I am not a fan of Mullen's because of some things he's said and done. He's got no credits in his basket imho. Plus, I think Freeze has come-in and completely taken-over for most of the instate talent in Mississippi, which is considerable btw, not to mention the major signing day scores on the recruiting trail with this past class.
All that to say, my point is, if MSU/Mullen goes 2-6 in conference play again this season, then you are on the downslope ... by that I mean the following ...
In everything in life, everything, doesn't matter what it is but in everything in life there are three distinct phases.
Growth phase ... chartered as upward movement.
Maintenance phase ... charted as a plateau of sorts - some say this is the toughest phase of anything, sports, business, health, whatever.
Decline phase ... charted as a downward slop, some sharper than others.
That applies to life, business, societies, family, health, everything.
If MSU goes 2-6 in conference play again this year then that signals the decline phase and THAT is the difference between comparing Spurrier's first four or five years to MSU's.
Furthermore, and this was very important in terms of how we Gamecocks graded Spurrier during his first five years .... in those first five years Spurrier won some games he was not supposed to win, he won some games as the underdog. He also won just about every game he was supposed to win, but he won some he was not supposed to win.
Can you say the same about Mullens?
This post was edited on 4/29/13 at 2:19 pm
Posted on 4/29/13 at 2:21 pm to scrooster
quote:
Plus, I think Freeze has come in and completely taken-over for most of the instate talent in Mississippi, which is considerable btw
What?
Mullen owned the 2012 class in Mississippi (Freezus only had a couple of months though)
2013? Mullen signed 5 of the Mississippi Top 10- Freezus signed 3
Keeping count in the last 2 classes in Mississippi- Mullen has signed 9 of the 20- Freezus only 5
LINK
This post was edited on 4/29/13 at 2:22 pm
Posted on 4/29/13 at 2:23 pm to marshallcotiger
quote:
Poor people problems.
LINK
Feel free to link Auburn's numbers...keeping in mind that this is private athletics donations only...
Posted on 4/29/13 at 2:27 pm to engie
Only on the SEC Rant:
Mullen has the best 4 year record for a State coach in since the 1940's
Record donations are coming into the program
We are on a sellout streak of over 2 years
SEC Rant say Mullins bout to be on the hotseat and fired after 2013
Mullen has the best 4 year record for a State coach in since the 1940's
Record donations are coming into the program
We are on a sellout streak of over 2 years
SEC Rant say Mullins bout to be on the hotseat and fired after 2013
Posted on 4/29/13 at 2:40 pm to CoonassBulldog
quote:
Mullen has the best 4 year record for a State coach in since the 1940's
Record donations are coming into the program
We are on a sellout streak of over 2 years.
You're right, and if all three of those things are true and you believe, even with a 2-6 conference record again this year that those things will continue to be maintained ... then you are right, Mullen will be there forever. Absolutely. If he has the donations pouring in and is putting fannies in the seats - those are definitely the big gauges of success.
Posted on 4/29/13 at 2:47 pm to scrooster
quote:
Then the light came on for him, he signed Lattimore during the off season, got re-motivated, and we buckled-down holding our breath for season six.
In year 4, Mullen signed the #2 overall player in the country according to 24/7 and a unanimous top 20 player -- at one of our biggest positions of need. He also made some staff movements that ultimately ended up with us having a new DC that was a former finalist for the Broyles Award as a DC, bringing in Deshea Townsend, bringing back the DL coach that brought in Boyd, Cox, and McPhee and was responsible for much of the actual development of those players, and bringing in Billy Gonzales -- who has a long history with Mullen and a pretty tremendous pedigree overall.
He's obviously not "asleep at the wheel" and resting on his laurels...
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And yes, some rebuilding or building jobs are more difficult than others, no doubt about it. But MSU has been saying that for 70 years.
And it's been true for 70 years here. Our investment today is in an entirely different stratosphere than it's ever been before. This is just a few things Mullen has done in his 4 years that signify our long-term investment to be successful.
quote:
Growth phase, Maintenance phase, Decline phase
If MSU goes 2-6 in conference play again this year then that signals the decline phase and THAT is the difference between comparing Spurrier's first four or five years to MSU's.
We are still in the growth phase/maintenance phase. Look at our stadium for goodness sake. One 2-6 conference season does not signal a decline phase. It signals a tough year due to a lack of talent recruited in 2010 and 2011, 2 classes that Mullen would undoubtably love to do over. Even then, those classes were just as good as anything Croom brought in other than the 09 class he/Mullen shared.
How was Spurrier "building" in year 5 at 7-6? This also ignores that Spurrier took over a team that had been 33-26(19-21) the previous 5 years under another, different HOF coach. So, if we are being honest with ourselves, the South Carolina "build" took 2 hall-of-fame coaches 10 years(after the initial "success") to ever actually raise the ceiling of that program another tier.
Is it not then unfair to demand that Mullen have this process completed in year 5?
Posted on 4/29/13 at 2:56 pm to engie
As I clearly stated ... the biggest difference is that Spurrier was beating teams he was not supposed to beat. Spurrier was knocking-off teams as a big underdog.
Has Mullen beaten anyone he was not supposed to beat, yet?
Spurrier has advanced our capital improvement projects as well - but if you lose games you are not supposed to lose, then it catches up with you.
Spurrier should have never lost to Auburn ... he hung with Garcia too long. Should have never lost at Kentucky, he had too much riding on Lattimore and he made a bad call from Garcia to Scruggs in the end. And then there was the Clemson game back in '07 I think it was .... was it not for his hard-headed arse we would have six in a row against them right now. But see, all the wins Spurrier has over teams he was not supposed to beat ... those put credits in his basket.
What credits does Mullens have in his basket? I ask again, who has he beaten that he was not supposed to beat?
Answer this.
Since he took over at MSU what is his record against:
Bama
LSU
Arkansas
Ole Miss
Auburn
????
Has Mullen beaten anyone he was not supposed to beat, yet?
Spurrier has advanced our capital improvement projects as well - but if you lose games you are not supposed to lose, then it catches up with you.
Spurrier should have never lost to Auburn ... he hung with Garcia too long. Should have never lost at Kentucky, he had too much riding on Lattimore and he made a bad call from Garcia to Scruggs in the end. And then there was the Clemson game back in '07 I think it was .... was it not for his hard-headed arse we would have six in a row against them right now. But see, all the wins Spurrier has over teams he was not supposed to beat ... those put credits in his basket.
What credits does Mullens have in his basket? I ask again, who has he beaten that he was not supposed to beat?
Answer this.
Since he took over at MSU what is his record against:
Bama
LSU
Arkansas
Ole Miss
Auburn
????
Posted on 4/29/13 at 3:00 pm to scrooster
quote:
What credits does Mullens have in his basket? I ask again, who has he beaten that he was not supposed to beat?
Mullen won in Gainesville- the first State team to win the since the 1960's
Mullen beat Georgia- the first win over Georgia since the 1970's
Whether YOU or anybody on the Rant give creedance to those wins- our administration recognizes those as pretty big accomplishments
Posted on 4/29/13 at 3:09 pm to scrooster
quote:
Since he took over at MSU what is his record against:
Bama
LSU
Bammer has 5 losses in the last 4 years- 2 of those to LSU...
LSU has lost 6 games the last 3 years- the lowest ranked was #12 UPig in 2010
We dont measure our program by their standards...we do expect to beat Auburn, UPig, and OM regularly though
Posted on 4/29/13 at 3:15 pm to CoonassBulldog
quote:
Mullen won in Gainesville- the first State team to win the since the 1960's
Mullen beat Georgia- the first win over Georgia since the 1970's
Whether YOU or anybody on the Rant give creedance to those wins- our administration recognizes those as pretty big accomplishments
No need to be defensive ... those are two good wins.
Any time you beat the Gators in Gainesville you are doing something.
Both of those came in one year, 2010? Nothing since? So 2010 was his peak campaign?
I just looked at his past four years, he really has not lost to anyone he wasn't supposed to lose to ... until the last game, last year, against Ole Miss. I see that MSU was favored in that game but lost big.
Wait, MSU was favored against Northwestern too, and lost by two TDs.
Okay, well, I guess ... doesn't matter. Anyways, thanks for the kind discussion, this is going to be an interesting season, no doubt. I know one thing for sure, we will not be overlooking MSU when they come to Columbia this year.
Good luck in all of them except one. :)
Posted on 4/29/13 at 3:22 pm to scrooster
quote:
Anyways, thanks for the kind discussion, this is going to be an interesting season, no doubt. I know one thing for sure, we will not be overlooking MSU when they come to Columbia this year.
Same here
Lastly, there is not a State fan anywhere that won't say this is a big season for Mullen. He has his detractors, finally lost to our rival, and had the collapse of last season. But regardless of how we finish, he wont be fired. It would take 2 losing seasons in a row for it to be even considered.
Posted on 4/29/13 at 3:23 pm to scrooster
quote:
As I clearly stated ... the biggest difference is that Spurrier was beating teams he was not supposed to beat. Spurrier was knocking-off teams as a big underdog.
IN YEAR SIX, Spurrier had those upsets. Are we going to discuss this in good faith or are you going on a blind Mullen-bashing rampage? Quit trying to make it an apples to oranges comparison.
In the first 4 years, Mullen has lost to 1 7-6 team and 3 8-5 teams for his worst career losses. 2 of those during the rebuild in 09 and the other 2 were on the road -- 1 in 11 and 1 in 12.
Spurrier lost:
7-5 Mizzou
8-4 Clemson
5-7 Vandy
8-5 Arky
7-6 Clemson
7-6 Vanderbilt
8-5 Georgia
7-6 Tennessee
8-5 Arkansas
8-5 Connecticut
Spurrier beat:
8-5 UCF
9-3 Florida
8-5 Kentucky
8-5 Clemson
10-4 Houston
11-2 Georgia
8-5 MSU
8-5 Kentucky
9-4 Ole Miss
9-4 Ole Miss
9-5 Clemson
So, 1 -- maybe 2 -- "signature" wins to go along with a handful of "bad" defeats for Spurrier -- contrasted with no true "signature wins" and one arguably "bad" loss for Mullen--in which he was an underdog. I'm failing to see this drastic difference you keep pointing to?
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Has Mullen beaten anyone he was not supposed to beat, yet?
A couple of times. Has he lost to anyone he wasn't supposed to lose to yet?
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if you lose games you are not supposed to lose, then it catches up with you.
We've lost ONE time as a favorite out of Mullen's 51 career games -- At Auburn in 2011.
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But see, all the wins Spurrier has over teams he was not supposed to beat ... those put credits in his basket.
A signature win erases a bad loss and viceversa. If you can't see the similarities to this point, I can't help you...
quote:
What credits does Mullens have in his basket? I ask again, who has he beaten that he was not supposed to beat?
And I ask again -- who has he lost to that he wasn't supposed to lose to?
quote:
Since he took over at MSU what is his record against:
Bama
LSU
Arkansas
Ole Miss
Auburn
????
Pretty damn good against Ole Miss. What is EVERY other team outside those 5's record against them? Are you REALLY trying to find fault with Mullen for not consistently beating 5 of the last 6 national champions?
Posted on 4/29/13 at 3:25 pm to scrooster
quote:
I just looked at his past four years, he really has not lost to anyone he wasn't supposed to lose to ... until the last game, last year, against Ole Miss. I see that MSU was favored in that game but lost big.
Try again. We were underdogs in that game.
quote:
Wait, MSU was favored against Northwestern too, and lost by two TDs.
Again. Underdogs.
Whether or not we SHOULD have been favored in those games is debatable -- but let's call it what it is -- shite performances against teams that Vegas already had beating us.
Posted on 4/29/13 at 7:15 pm to CoonassBulldog
quote:
We do expect to beat Auburn regularly though.
Posted on 4/29/13 at 7:16 pm to cbi8
quote:
bring on the Hud
Freezus likes this idea.
Posted on 5/1/13 at 7:45 am to sms151t
quote:
Which SEC coach has most to gain/lose?
Most to gain as far as football coaches
Hugh Freeze
Gus Malzahn
Most to lose?
Dan Mullen
Will Muschamp
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