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re: What prevents Vanderbilt from competing in Football using Stanford's model?
Posted on 12/10/15 at 9:18 am to 12Pence
Posted on 12/10/15 at 9:18 am to 12Pence
quote:
I'd like to see Vanderbilt take a different offensive approach. I'd like to see them adopt a Baylor, Texas Tech, or TCU spread offense approach. Derek Mason had them playing pretty good defense. However, the offense made LSU's look cutting-edge. With some uncertainty with the SEC East (new coaches at Georgia, Mizzou, and South Carolina), now would be the time to capture the opportunity.
Mike Leach + a decent DC + a mercenary full time beast recruiter = Vandy winning 8+ games a year.
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Posted on 12/10/15 at 9:21 am to oman
quote:
Stanford's annual game with Notre Dame puts it on par with any OOC played by the one or two teams like Alabama and LSU that actually schedule top OOC opponents.
Only arguing this one point.
Carolina plays Clemson every year (#1) and UF plays FSU (won the title 2 years ago). UGA plays GT who at least has a pulse.
Posted on 12/10/15 at 9:22 am to Grovewater
Vandy has never made the investment that it takes to have a big time college football program. It is about 40 years behind.
Posted on 12/10/15 at 9:25 am to oman
I don't believe Stanford and Vanderbilt is an adequate comparison. Stanford, like Notre Dame, is just a cut above the rest of the private universities in power 5 conferences. When I mean "cut above", I'm talking about in terms of national brand name and exposure. Stanford, although they really don't need to, can go anywhere in the country and recruit on name alone. Vanderbilt can't do that. Not that it isn't a great school, but Vanderbilt's "academic pitch" wouldn't hold as much weight in the Big 10, ACC, and Pac 12 areas.
In my opinion, Vanderbilt is more on par with Northwestern. Really good private schools in football-crazed conferences. That certainly doesn't mean success can't be maintained. Just take a look at what Gary Barnett, Randy Walker, and now Pat Fitzgerald are doing at Northwestern. You've got to find the right person and capitalize on it. Duke is doing it with David Cutcliffe. Northwestern is doing it with Pat Fitzgerald. I'm not too sure about the recruiting in Tennessee, but I'd imagine that there are enough players in Memphis, Nashville, and Chattanooga to field a competitive team.
In my opinion, Vanderbilt is more on par with Northwestern. Really good private schools in football-crazed conferences. That certainly doesn't mean success can't be maintained. Just take a look at what Gary Barnett, Randy Walker, and now Pat Fitzgerald are doing at Northwestern. You've got to find the right person and capitalize on it. Duke is doing it with David Cutcliffe. Northwestern is doing it with Pat Fitzgerald. I'm not too sure about the recruiting in Tennessee, but I'd imagine that there are enough players in Memphis, Nashville, and Chattanooga to field a competitive team.
Posted on 12/10/15 at 9:26 am to Grovewater
Kind of surprised nobody has said this. Stanford plays big boy football, unlike almost everyone else in the PAC-12. Unless "using the Stanford model" is running a different style of offense than almost everyone else in the SEC, Vandy will always struggle in the SEC. Running a pro-style, power running offense has Stanford looking for a different kind of player than almost everyone else in the PAC. It puts you 4th or 5th in line at best for those players in the SEC.
Vandy may have success going air raid, or triple option, or something along those lines.
Vandy may have success going air raid, or triple option, or something along those lines.
Posted on 12/10/15 at 9:26 am to CidCock
quote:
Only arguing this one point.
Carolina plays Clemson every year (#1) and UF plays FSU (won the title 2 years ago). UGA plays GT who at least has a pulse.
Fair enough. Overreacted to someone calling Stanford out on scheduling.
Posted on 12/10/15 at 9:27 am to Grovewater
Having to play big southern boys.
Stanford has a recruiting edge as far as standards of education in the high schools in California affords more of a talent pool for Stanford. Plus it's California vs. Nashville Tennessee.
Stanford has a recruiting edge as far as standards of education in the high schools in California affords more of a talent pool for Stanford. Plus it's California vs. Nashville Tennessee.
Posted on 12/10/15 at 9:30 am to Monticello
quote:
Vandy is a more regional university with clout in the southeast but not much elsewhere.
I don't think that's true.
Top 10 enrollment by State.
TN - 665
Illinois - 555
New York - 468
Texas - 430
Florida - 429
California - 418
Georgia - 385
New Jersey - 320
Ohio - 234
Massachusetts - 203
LINK /
This post was edited on 12/10/15 at 9:32 am
Posted on 12/10/15 at 9:32 am to greenbastard
California grade schools are notoriously lacking. They are in the same tier as Mississippi. (To whoever said there high school education difference is the factor)
This post was edited on 12/10/15 at 9:37 am
Posted on 12/10/15 at 9:37 am to nc14
quote:
Oh don't pat yourself on the back so quick, Texas is full of dumbasses - more than Alabama and Mississippi combined and that's being conservative.
Well no shite captain obvious. More schools, more athletes, bigger following. Academic cheating is bound to happen. Nobody is denying that. But Vanderbilt doesn't recruit Texas so what does Texas HS have to do with this argument? Damn son. You dumb.
quote:
My remark about Tennessee was not intended as a put down, just a fact that those two institutions have extremely tough admittance requirements and only small % meet those reqs - 10% of Cali is substantially bigger pool than it is in Tennessee.
The frick are you talking about
? Vanderbilt recruits the entire South too (and parts of the Midwest too surprisingly), not just the state of Tennessee. SEC Schools have proven that State borders are not an impediment to their recruiting. The pool is the same when you count the entire South. Unfortunately for Vandy, there are more qualified students in Cali than there are in the south due to a lack of focus on academics. Vandy is not going to take the same 3.0 GPA kids that Georgia, SC, and the rest of the SEC Schools take.
Posted on 12/10/15 at 9:47 am to GrindAllTheStates
quote:
California grade schools are notoriously lacking. They are in the same tier as Mississippi.
.........umm. No. And you're an example as to why they are not the same. quote:
high school education difference is the factor
It's not the factor, but definitely something that isn't helping. There are many reasons why Vandy doesn't win, and education is one of them.
There are as many smart people per capita in the south as there are in California. Big difference is that all bets are off when it comes to football. Smart=/=Educated. The southern mentality is 'If the kid didn't get to learn how to multiply fractions, he can learn it after HS...today he focuses on football so our town can win.'
Posted on 12/10/15 at 9:48 am to greenbastard
Getting your arse kicked at every turn. Might be time to take a break.
Posted on 12/10/15 at 9:50 am to Billy Mays
quote:I wish bama could play notre Dame every year. They suck major arse.
That's absolutely true.
Posted on 12/10/15 at 9:52 am to nc14
quote:
Getting your arse kicked at every turn. Might be time to take a break.
Does it help when you throw something into an argument that has nothing to do with the argument itself? You still haven't explained why you threw Texas in there. Maybe because the truth hits close to home?
Posted on 12/10/15 at 9:53 am to Grovewater
Bobby Johnson had us going in the right direction by identifying players who not only fit the mold but were also willing to redshirt in order to mature not only physically but mentally. After reaching a bowl in 2008, the 2009 season featured lots of new faces and never got on track. The relentless attacks on CBJ pushed him to step aside mere weeks before the 2010 season in which most fans were expecting to compete for a bowl bid due to having a more talented roster than any of us could remember.
The timing of CBJ stepping down not only left the team stunned, it gave us the turkey inseminator as interim HC for a year. He was a great guy but not so much in the lead role. He was let go after yet VU underperformed a second straight year.
In comes James Franklin. With a roster set to compete for a bowl with any resemblance of decent QB play he did just that. The return of xfer Jordan Rodgers after injury stabilized the offense and we went bowling. CJF promised the world to fans and the administration but he needed barriers removed in order to compete.
The admins relented and removed some recruiting barriers which allowed for special waivers for recruits who previously would not have made it into Vandy. It was four of these special waiver players the participated the worst incident in VU football history.
The next two seasons we won 9 games with a vast majority of upperclass players and xfer QBs. The 2014 recruiting class was looking good, the team was performing on the field, and CJF was saying all the right things. In early November I pulled up a recruiting page and noticed that two heavy VU leans had switched and listed PSU as favorites even though neither had received offers. Over the next two weeks several VU commits had listed PSU as favorites even though no offers yet. I knew then something was up.
After our bowl vs Houston rumors started to swirl. CJF proclaimed he wasn't leaving while at the same time his agent was negotiating a contract with PSU. He left just a few weeks before national signing day. PSU was informed in October of that year that he wasn't returning. From the time Franklin was contacted for the PSU job until the time when the contract was settled he continued to recruit in VU gear on VU's dime... for PSU. He took half the class when he left.
The administration had to get a coach hired quickly then he in turn would need to find a staff just as quick to salvage the recruiting class. It came down to Mason or Chad Morris, the latter of whom would not commit to a long tenure at VU. After deciding on the guy who would commit long-term CDM was hired and did a decent job of assembling a decent recruiting class.
Going into the 2014 seasons most VU fans had high expectations coming off back to back 9 win seasons. With one look at the roster I knew the crap was hitting the fan quickly as I knew it was going to be a long season.
While CJF was good at promoting the star rankings of his classes he did a poor job of laying a foundation for the future. The talent was there but they were young, inexperienced, and dazed by Franklin leaving the way he did. In terms of 'gameday ready' not a single position group was equal to or better than what CJF inherited. Mason took over a team with an unproven QB who had a noodle arm which compensated for a slow delivery, and no depth behind him. Our RB was a 2* who had a prima donna attitude and was injured and he was backed up by a 4* RB who couldn't break a tackle, block, or hold onto the ball. All was good though, we had a returning starter at WR who had something like 17 career catches but he was a 4* and therefore a future great.
Offensive youth and inexperience aside our defense would carry us. Not only were we changing philosophies, we lost 7/11 starters to graduation including our whole secondary. Somehow though there are still many idiot VU fans that were expexting 10 wins.
Four head coaches in just over four years is bad enough. Compound that with lost recruiting classes and 'waivered' players being booted and you have a mess. One way to ease the pain is smart scheduling which is another area VU can't seem to figure out. Why in the hell are we playing teams out of conference that are competing for their conference crowns? This year alone we had our creampuff FCS school, two conference winners, and a 7-5 team on the road. Our three FBS opponents were a combined 30-8 and we played 2/3 on the road. Scheduling could have been better though had we not backed out of all the sure win games vs N'Western, Ohio St, and Clemson that were all scheduled.
Until we get stability at the top, smart scheduling, and player development we will not compete. I think Mason can get it done but there are too many idiot VU fans that think we should be top 5 in recruiting and top 25 in final standings every year. They somehow think we can fire Mason and land a Chip Kelly or Saban.
The timing of CBJ stepping down not only left the team stunned, it gave us the turkey inseminator as interim HC for a year. He was a great guy but not so much in the lead role. He was let go after yet VU underperformed a second straight year.
In comes James Franklin. With a roster set to compete for a bowl with any resemblance of decent QB play he did just that. The return of xfer Jordan Rodgers after injury stabilized the offense and we went bowling. CJF promised the world to fans and the administration but he needed barriers removed in order to compete.
The admins relented and removed some recruiting barriers which allowed for special waivers for recruits who previously would not have made it into Vandy. It was four of these special waiver players the participated the worst incident in VU football history.
The next two seasons we won 9 games with a vast majority of upperclass players and xfer QBs. The 2014 recruiting class was looking good, the team was performing on the field, and CJF was saying all the right things. In early November I pulled up a recruiting page and noticed that two heavy VU leans had switched and listed PSU as favorites even though neither had received offers. Over the next two weeks several VU commits had listed PSU as favorites even though no offers yet. I knew then something was up.
After our bowl vs Houston rumors started to swirl. CJF proclaimed he wasn't leaving while at the same time his agent was negotiating a contract with PSU. He left just a few weeks before national signing day. PSU was informed in October of that year that he wasn't returning. From the time Franklin was contacted for the PSU job until the time when the contract was settled he continued to recruit in VU gear on VU's dime... for PSU. He took half the class when he left.
The administration had to get a coach hired quickly then he in turn would need to find a staff just as quick to salvage the recruiting class. It came down to Mason or Chad Morris, the latter of whom would not commit to a long tenure at VU. After deciding on the guy who would commit long-term CDM was hired and did a decent job of assembling a decent recruiting class.
Going into the 2014 seasons most VU fans had high expectations coming off back to back 9 win seasons. With one look at the roster I knew the crap was hitting the fan quickly as I knew it was going to be a long season.
While CJF was good at promoting the star rankings of his classes he did a poor job of laying a foundation for the future. The talent was there but they were young, inexperienced, and dazed by Franklin leaving the way he did. In terms of 'gameday ready' not a single position group was equal to or better than what CJF inherited. Mason took over a team with an unproven QB who had a noodle arm which compensated for a slow delivery, and no depth behind him. Our RB was a 2* who had a prima donna attitude and was injured and he was backed up by a 4* RB who couldn't break a tackle, block, or hold onto the ball. All was good though, we had a returning starter at WR who had something like 17 career catches but he was a 4* and therefore a future great.
Offensive youth and inexperience aside our defense would carry us. Not only were we changing philosophies, we lost 7/11 starters to graduation including our whole secondary. Somehow though there are still many idiot VU fans that were expexting 10 wins.
Four head coaches in just over four years is bad enough. Compound that with lost recruiting classes and 'waivered' players being booted and you have a mess. One way to ease the pain is smart scheduling which is another area VU can't seem to figure out. Why in the hell are we playing teams out of conference that are competing for their conference crowns? This year alone we had our creampuff FCS school, two conference winners, and a 7-5 team on the road. Our three FBS opponents were a combined 30-8 and we played 2/3 on the road. Scheduling could have been better though had we not backed out of all the sure win games vs N'Western, Ohio St, and Clemson that were all scheduled.
Until we get stability at the top, smart scheduling, and player development we will not compete. I think Mason can get it done but there are too many idiot VU fans that think we should be top 5 in recruiting and top 25 in final standings every year. They somehow think we can fire Mason and land a Chip Kelly or Saban.
Posted on 12/10/15 at 9:53 am to 12Pence
quote:
I'd like to see Vanderbilt take a different offensive approach. I'd like to see them adopt a Baylor, Texas Tech, or TCU spread offense approach
Yup, at would at least make them entertaining to watch, which goes a long way with the fans and alums.
Similar to how Hal Mumme made KY competitive the 90s/early 2000s.
Posted on 12/10/15 at 9:55 am to greenbastard
Refer to your post that I responded to slugger. 
If you still have trouble the short bus will pick you up shortly.
If you still have trouble the short bus will pick you up shortly. Posted on 12/10/15 at 9:57 am to Grovewater
quote:
What prevents Vanderbilt from competing in Football using Stanford's model?
Having a fan base that gives a shite. And when I say fan base, that includes boosters and donors.
Posted on 12/10/15 at 9:59 am to nc14
quote:
Refer to your post that I responded to slugger
You talking about the post that was full of fail? It's not my fault you assumed Vanderbilt only recruited the state of Tennessee.
quote:
short bus will pick you up shortly.
Well, you obviously seem know the route they take
Posted on 12/10/15 at 10:02 am to Grovewater
Have a good friend who is a vandy die hard with season tix to football and basketball, and I'll go with him when he has one available. The fan presence is lacking big time for both sports. A lot of the student body are foreigners who came to Vandy for the great education, but don't care too much about supporting the athletics. Franklin used to come to bball games and beg for them to sell out a home football game and they never did.
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