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re: NCAA Rules Committee Proposes to Eliminate HUNH
Posted on 2/13/14 at 2:44 am to chattabama
Posted on 2/13/14 at 2:44 am to chattabama
quote:The entire point is that there is no disadvantage to the defense with the HUNH. They get to sub when the offense does. Which was added for the Defense. The players on both sides are going the same speed for the same amount of time. Adding the rule would create an advantage for the defense because they could stop the offense from running their style. The offense is supposed to run the game their way not the way the defense tells them to. Its almost like the defense pick the offense can't pass on a play no matter what style the offense uses because the defense doesn't have a guy that can run with their WR. Tempo is part of the game and the clock which the Offense is supposed to control.
How did rules in football come about? They weren't all a part of the game when it first originated. A lot of the rules came as a result of seeing an unfair advantage towards one side.
This post was edited on 2/13/14 at 2:47 am
2
Posted on 2/13/14 at 2:45 am to Rabern57
quote:
The only reason this rule is being pushed is to hurt teams running the HUNH.
Geez, no it's not the only reason, that's ridiculous.
quote:
San Diego State football coach Rocky Long was vocal last season about how game officiating could made a difference during games in which the Aztecs face an opponent that plays a hurry-up spread.
As the Aztecs prepped for their season opener against Eastern Illinois in 2013, Long made it a point to remind officials that they have to give the defensive team time to substitute after the offense changes personnel.
This was a concern against the Panthers' hurry-up no huddle spread.
As Long said before the game:
According to the rules, as soon as the offensive team sends new players into the game, it’s the line judge’s responsibility to signal the umpire, who will count to three seconds to give the defense time to make its substitutions.
“If you’ve got a guy coming in, they’re supposed to hold it until your guy gets in and your guy gets out, and then back it up and let it go,” Long said. “The NFL will do that. In college it depends on which officiating crew (you) get, whether they do it or not.
Long said he reviewed Eastern Illinois’ 2012 game film, and in nine out of the Panthers' 12 games, the officials did not give the defensive team time to substitute.
But the days where offenses could sneak to the line and snap the ball before a defense is set could be numbered.
Posted on 2/13/14 at 2:47 am to Rabern57
quote:
The entire point is that there is no disadvantage to the defense with the HUNH. They get to sub when the offense does.
Pure conjecture, see above post.
quote:
Adding the rule would create an advantage for the defense because they could stop the offense from running their style.
Everything you are saying is conjecture. You have no basis for any of this.
This post was edited on 2/13/14 at 2:50 am
Posted on 2/13/14 at 2:47 am to Rabern57
quote:
I believe Gus could gameplan without HUNH. But the argument that the defense would be any more tired than the offense is as bad as the safety argument. Offensive players run back farther to line up and the play is snapped as soon as they are set. They don't have rules against running a physical style of offense so there shouldn't be one against running a speed based offense.
It's not so much that it tires out the defense more, as it is that the offense has the opportunity to communicate when they are tired/ worn and they are able to initiate substituting. The defense is stuck unless they call timeout.
In terms of the extra injuries, how can you tell when a brain injury occurs? There was a study that said that those who have had the most head blows have damage to the brain's protective layer and can suffer permanent damage. How do you get the most head blows? It's simple probability: If you are out there for more plays you are more likely to get hit.
The rule is not against speed, so much as it is against giving the offense an unfair advantage. You can still snap the ball in eleven seconds. That doesn't give the defense much time to make reads, etc. it barely gives the defense adequate time to substitute and get set. All it does is ensure that the defense is fresh, not tired. AU doesn't typically snap it within ten seconds like Oregon does, so I don't really see the problem.
Posted on 2/13/14 at 2:53 am to 2close2Gainesville
quote:All that says is that the refs need to do a better job of following the rules in place.
Everything you are saying is conjecture. You have no basis for any of this.
Posted on 2/13/14 at 2:55 am to Rabern57
Would you agree that the opportunity to initiate substituting is an advantage? The offense knows when their guys are getting tired and they can say when to substitute. The defense may know that someone is feeling exhausted, but they don't have the power to stop and substitute without burning a timeout. That is an advantage for the offense.
Another advantage the HUNH has for the offense is that they can snap the ball quickly when they know they just got away with trapping the ball instead of catching it. The frenzied pace doesn't give the booth upstairs adequate time to review a play.
Another advantage the HUNH has for the offense is that they can snap the ball quickly when they know they just got away with trapping the ball instead of catching it. The frenzied pace doesn't give the booth upstairs adequate time to review a play.
Posted on 2/13/14 at 2:57 am to Rabern57
quote:
All that says is that the refs need to do a better job of following the rules in place.
And the new rule will help that
not that it will happen
This post was edited on 2/13/14 at 2:59 am
Posted on 2/13/14 at 3:00 am to S.E.C. Crazy
quote:
S.E.C. Crazy
This is what your posts sound like.
Posted on 2/13/14 at 3:07 am to chattabama
quote:The defenses get tired because they aren't used to running at that tempo and the offense is in better shape to run it. No different than a team buffing up to be more physical and wearing a team out that is small. Its shown that bigger more physical teams hurt more players than HUNH teams. How do we even that out for teams that can't get players big enough to compete against that style and get hurt and tired? As far as injuries a player is taught to fall down if hurt that bad. A few seconds isn't going to make it any more clear.
It's not so much that it tires out the defense more, as it is that the offense has the opportunity to communicate when they are tired/ worn and they are able to initiate substituting. The defense is stuck unless they call timeout.
In terms of the extra injuries, how can you tell when a brain injury occurs? There was a study that said that those who have had the most head blows have damage to the brain's protective layer and can suffer permanent damage. How do you get the most head blows? It's simple probability: If you are out there for more plays you are more likely to get hit.
quote:Again there is no advantage. The offense has to read the defense and be ready for blitzes just as fast as the defense has to be ready for what the Offense is doing. It all about being prepared for the play quickly. Its not about Auburn. Its about the rule giving teams that don't need anymore of an advantage another one. The rule takes away the one aspect that allows teams without a lot talent to compete with teams that have a talent advantage.
The rule is not against speed, so much as it is against giving the offense an unfair advantage. You can still snap the ball in eleven seconds. That doesn't give the defense much time to make reads, etc. it barely gives the defense adequate time to substitute and get set. All it does is ensure that the defense is fresh, not tired. AU doesn't typically snap it within ten seconds like Oregon does, so I don't really see the problem.
Les and JC do a good job of handling it most of the time and even stick up for it. The ones complaining are the ones that have problems against it. Showing its just because they can't teach and train their players to defend it like the others so they want rules to help them. That should never be a reason for a rule to be made.
This post was edited on 2/13/14 at 3:12 am
Posted on 2/13/14 at 3:11 am to Rabern57
This shite's just going in circles.
Posted on 2/13/14 at 3:21 am to 2close2Gainesville
quote:Because Bama fans can't accept or admit the fact that the only reason their coach is whining about it is because he can't defend it unless he has a big talent advantage over the team running it. Its not a coincidence that the ones with problems playing against are the ones whining about it. Not many more are claiming it to be unfair.
This shite's just going in circles.
The fact Saban claimed it was because safety reasons and then back tracked proves he didn't have a legit reason for rule changes but that he really wanted it gone for a reason he didn't want to admit.
This post was edited on 2/13/14 at 3:32 am
Posted on 2/13/14 at 3:23 am to Rabern57
Yea, we need to have 180 pound players on the lines of scrimmage like we did in the 60s just so pussy ball can continue.
The defenses get tired for a lot more reasons than you listed.
Offenskve linemen block and move people around, trying to go through players and fight through them is much tougher, then if a player breaks a long run the defense must give chase while the offense stands around.
The fact is, the WHOLE POINT OF PUSSY BALL is to not allow subs, it is not to snap the ball within 30 seconds.
That makes it imho bush league football.
The NFL doesn't want smaller players.
Real CFB fans don't want to see basketball scores in football.
And any dummy that says more plays don't lead to injuries is stupid..
Clemson ran 100 plays on LSU a couple of years ago and 2 prominent LSU players got injured late in the game.
We neef to stop all the holding while we are at it.
The defenses get tired for a lot more reasons than you listed.
Offenskve linemen block and move people around, trying to go through players and fight through them is much tougher, then if a player breaks a long run the defense must give chase while the offense stands around.
The fact is, the WHOLE POINT OF PUSSY BALL is to not allow subs, it is not to snap the ball within 30 seconds.
That makes it imho bush league football.
The NFL doesn't want smaller players.
Real CFB fans don't want to see basketball scores in football.
And any dummy that says more plays don't lead to injuries is stupid..
Clemson ran 100 plays on LSU a couple of years ago and 2 prominent LSU players got injured late in the game.
We neef to stop all the holding while we are at it.
This post was edited on 2/13/14 at 3:47 am
Posted on 2/13/14 at 3:28 am to Rabern57
And I can come back with "Your offense can only be effective if it doesn't let the D get set." Then I can go into substitutions blah, blah, blah. 
Your argument is no more valid than the counter argument, and it keeps going in circles. Done arguing bout this stupid shite and I don't really even give a damn if it happens or not. Night.
Your argument is no more valid than the counter argument, and it keeps going in circles. Done arguing bout this stupid shite and I don't really even give a damn if it happens or not. Night. 
Posted on 2/13/14 at 3:55 am to S.E.C. Crazy
The injury point is null because it has no factual proof to support it, so you can just go ahead and drop that. As for the rest of your diatribe; it relies on nothing more than the fact that you're blindly defending nick sabans honor like a knight from a Monty python movie. The fact still remains that if the defense can't keep up with the offense they are either out of shape or too dense to comprehend it much less prevent gains; both things that are correctable through conditioning and recruiting.
So as I said before, put down the bottle there Jed and relax, elsewise all the noise you're making will mean they'll be no squirrels to hunt for dinner in the morning.
So as I said before, put down the bottle there Jed and relax, elsewise all the noise you're making will mean they'll be no squirrels to hunt for dinner in the morning.
Posted on 2/13/14 at 5:57 am to Greg09Ag
quote:
How did rules in football come about? They weren't all a part of the game when it first originated. A lot of the rules came as a result of seeing an unfair advantage towards one side. In 1978, NFL implemented the "illegal use of the hands" rule. Prior to that DBS could bump the wide receiver the whole way down the field. That was an unfair advantage to the defense, so they had to make a rule. HUNH without defensive substitutions is an unfair advantage for the offense. Wanting a rule to be made about it is no more whining than proponents of the "illegal use of the hands" rule were whining before it was implemented. It is simply saying that one side has an unfair advantage by being able to substitute whenever they want while the defense has to wait.
Exactly this.
Posted on 2/13/14 at 5:58 am to CheeseburgerEddie
500
Posted on 2/13/14 at 6:34 am to Greg09Ag
quote:
The injury point is null because it has no factual proof to support it,
You've never played a down of college football in your life, have you?
If you have you would know there is a big difference from playing 50-60 plays and playing 80-100. The strain is so much more and the wear and tear is a lot. The more fatigued you are the easier it is to get injured, technique goes as well.
Posted on 2/13/14 at 6:41 am to YStar
So opposing coaches should condition their players better?
To those if you crying that the fast pace is unfair to the defense, I don't get you. The offense and the defense have the same amount of time to get set, and if the offense substitutes the defense, by the rules, gets time to substitute as well. I don't see the unfair advantage other than it forces a defense to be super disciplined otherwise misdirection is going to give them fits.
To those if you crying that the fast pace is unfair to the defense, I don't get you. The offense and the defense have the same amount of time to get set, and if the offense substitutes the defense, by the rules, gets time to substitute as well. I don't see the unfair advantage other than it forces a defense to be super disciplined otherwise misdirection is going to give them fits.
This post was edited on 2/13/14 at 6:43 am
Posted on 2/13/14 at 6:54 am to Ross
quote:
So opposing coaches should condition their players better?
There is some things you can't condition. Also, people have different ailments. Players have sickle cell trait and will NEED to sub or they can dehydrate and die out there.
quote:
To those if you crying that the fast pace is unfair to the defense, I don't get you. The offense and the defense have the same amount of time to get set,
This is untrue.
- For one the defense has to react to offense formation, motions so no they do not have the same time.
- Secondly, it takes far more energy to think, predict and defend then to run a set play. If you've played beyond the ease of middle/high school you would relate to this
- Lastly, I don't agree with severe changing of these rules, however rule changes happen all the time. For instance you use to be able to physically battle receivers down field, now you can't. You use to be able to hold defensive linemen to create openings for LBs, now you can't. You use to be able to blast receivers at an level attempting to run through the middle, now you can't.
There have been A LOT of adaptations, many recently to make the game very pass heavy. There have been many regulations put in place to handicap the defense ability to defend so that larger scores can be put up.
Why is it now that they are making an adaptation for the defense that there is uproar? There shouldn't be...
Posted on 2/13/14 at 6:58 am to YStar
Meh.
Won't affect AU much.
AU won 6 games running less than 70 plays last year.
Fast or slow...AU wins.
Won't affect AU much.
AU won 6 games running less than 70 plays last year.
Fast or slow...AU wins.
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