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re: Arkansas 55 Fernando Carmona called out by Texas Tech for being dirty
Posted on 12/29/24 at 1:04 pm to FireDanMullen
Posted on 12/29/24 at 1:04 pm to FireDanMullen
quote:
Exhibitions aren’t counted on records. Bowl games are counted in records as wins and losses. They always have been. It counts towards the teams overall record. Spring games don’t. Like how an exhibition game doesn’t count towards a team’s record. So, this analogy really doesn’t hold much weight.
They were games of pride and of accomplishment. They were like a reward for a good season. They didn't have 60 teams going to bowl games back then.
Alabama has the record for most bowl appearances of any team. That is something Alabama was VERY proud of for the majority of my life.
Our fight song talks about the Rose Bowl going back to the 1920s.
quote:
Ok I mean that’s the 1 program that has a history of bending the themes of college football. Every other “blue blood” or traditional football school played bowl games regularly.
Again, I know your overall point is to discredit Arkansas 1964 championship bc of the system in play at time didn’t determine bowl games. I mean whatever I don’t really care about that. I just think it’s not really true to say bowl games were exhibitions. I mean by definition they weren’t. It counted towards your record, it’s literally listed below every team’s overall record is their bowl record. I don’t see how you can say it’s as circumstantial as a spring game lol
It was not just Notre Dame. You are just ignoring multiple sources that point to the fact they were treated. But honestly, I don't know any bigger indicator than the fact the national champion was decided a month before they were played. Player stats also didn't get counted by the NCAA until 2002.
And my arguments have nothing to do with Arkansas specifically. I generally like and pull for Arkansas in most cases. Nor do I give a shite about having a split title with any team. Alabama split the title with Michigan St in 1965 because the Coaches poll still did theirs at the end of the regular season. I don't give a crap, they are the other National Champion that year. Not a big deal at all.
It's a simple matter on what is the proper way to claim them. And citing a 5 person poll done in secret in a way that was contriditory to how things were done in general is not a proper way to claim them.
I keep track of legit national championships for SEC schools. Here is the list in order by who claims the least amount of bogus titles:
1. Oklahoma - 7 claims, 0 are bogus, 0% bogus claims.
2t. LSU - 4 claims, 0 are bogus, 0% bogus claims.
2t. Texas - 4 claims, 0 are bogus, 0% bogus claims.
4. Florida: 3 claims, 0 are bogus, 0% bogus claims.
5. Auburn - 2 claims, 0 are bogus. 0% bogus claims despite the push by some ignorant Auburn fans to change it.
6. Alabama - 18 claims, 1941 is bogus. 6% bogus claims.
7. Georgia: 4 claims, 1942 is bogus. 25% bogus claims.
8. Texas A&M: 4 claims, 1927 and Jimbos 20XX are bogus, 50% bogus claim
9. Tennessee: 6 claims, 1938, 1940, 1950, 1967 are bogus. 66% bogus claims.
10. Kentucky: 1 claims, 1950 is bogus, 100% bogus claims.
10t. Arkansas: 1 claim, 1964 is bogus. 100% bogus claims.
12. Ole Miss: 3 claims, 1959, 1960 and 1962 are bogus, 100% bogus claims.
Teams not listed do not claim any. I think next year I might include them for 0% bogus claims and rank them ahead of Alabama. I'm kind of torn on how to treat them, because they could all make claims the way teams like Tennessee do.
This post was edited on 12/29/24 at 1:07 pm
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Posted on 12/29/24 at 1:26 pm to OleVaught14
I’m not supporting, but this guy is nowhere near that Shalimar guy for fAggy.
Posted on 12/29/24 at 1:33 pm to 3down10
quote:
It was not just Notre Dame. You are just ignoring multiple sources that point to the fact they were treated.
I’m not lol. You called bowl games an exhibition game. They by definition are not, because they are counted as wins and losses and always have been lmao. It’s just a fact haha. An exhibition game is not counted. Simple as that lmao
You’re changing actual English definitions of words and posting your subjective opinions about people’s title claims while failing to acknowledge your own subjective interpretation isn’t law. Like stating bowls are an exhibition game bc they were treated a certain way. Ok that’s great, even if you’re 100% correct about how they’re treated, they are not exhibition by literal English definition of the word lmao. Watching someone die on this hill of “they’re an exhibition game!” when they actually are listed as recorded wins and losses is honestly, pretty entertaining. And the fact you’re getting defensive about it is even better. Carry on man lol
Posted on 12/29/24 at 2:12 pm to FireDanMullen
quote:
I’m not lol. You called bowl games an exhibition game. They by definition are not, because they are counted as wins and losses and always have been lmao. It’s just a fact haha. An exhibition game is not counted. Simple as that lmao
You’re changing actual English definitions of words and posting your subjective opinions about people’s title claims while failing to acknowledge your own subjective interpretation isn’t law. Like stating bowls are an exhibition game bc they were treated a certain way. Ok that’s great, even if you’re 100% correct about how they’re treated, they are not exhibition by literal English definition of the word lmao. Watching someone die on this hill of “they’re an exhibition game!” when they actually are listed as recorded wins and losses is honestly, pretty entertaining. And the fact you’re getting defensive about it is even better. Carry on man lol
I feel like I'm arguing with someone who is pointing at the ocean and they keep telling me it's the sky because it's blue. And I'm somehow being asked to prove the sky isn't blue.
Why didn't the NCAA count the stats until 2002 if they were official games?
The history of college football is a progression, of which is a large part of my interest in the topic. They went from being exhibition games to post season games with national championship consequences. Change happened slowly, not over night.
They were treated as exhibition games until the polls started coming out after them. That is the reality.
And the funny thing is many people would say it's impossible to have exhibition games today in college football and it has absolutely nothing at all to do with if the score is recorded or not. Simply because they can influence the polls. The only way to avoid that is to....play them after the final poll.
This post was edited on 12/29/24 at 2:16 pm
Posted on 12/29/24 at 3:33 pm to 3down10
quote:
Why didn't the NCAA count the stats until 2002 if they were official games?
They counted that stats they just didn’t count them towards the regular season totals until 2002. Stats aside as well, they didn’t start counting bowl wins and losses in 2002, they did it since the inception of bowls.
It was pretty much the exact same thing the NFL does with post season stats. They recorded bowl record stats, they just didn’t attribute them to regular season totals until 2002. There were still bowl records like “most rushing yards in the sugar bowl” recorded it was just exclusively attributed to bowls. Like how “most rush yards in playoffs” are attributed to playoffs and not regular season totals. They treated the bowls similarly to the playoffs in the nfl in regards to statistics, it in no way validated the game being an exhibition.
quote:
They went from being exhibition games to post season games with national championship consequences. Change happened slowly, not over night. They were treated as exhibition games until the polls started coming out after them. That is the reality.
Right. Except an exhibition game doesn’t count towards your record and the bowls games always did.
I feel like you’ve got to be pretty old to be taking this so subjectively. I don’t mean that as a slight or an insult either but it’s clear as objective fact that the bowls weren’t exhibition games when they add to your wins and losses. I mean I wasn’t there in the 60s to know if it meant absolutely nothing but pride like you say to be fair but I do know that at the end of the game a team is attributed a win or loss to their record, which by definition means it is not an exhibition game.
This post was edited on 12/29/24 at 3:36 pm
Posted on 12/29/24 at 3:53 pm to FireDanMullen
quote:
Right. Except an exhibition game doesn’t count towards your record and the bowls games always did.
I feel like you’ve got to be pretty old to be taking this so subjectively. I don’t mean that as a slight or an insult either but it’s clear as objective fact that the bowls weren’t exhibition games when they add to your wins and losses. I mean I wasn’t there in the 60s to know if it meant absolutely nothing but pride like you say to be fair but I do know that at the end of the game a team is attributed a win or loss to their record, which by definition means it is not an exhibition game.
If you want to make everything black and white, then I'm just going to think you are dumb and quit wasting my time.
Why can't you tell me how you can create an exhibition game BEFORE the final poll if you think "saving stats" is the defining measure.
And considering the final polls came out before the games, what else do you think they had to play for other than pride?
This post was edited on 12/29/24 at 4:37 pm
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