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re: Anyone else think the Playoff will be disastrous?
Posted on 12/8/13 at 5:17 pm to molsusports
Posted on 12/8/13 at 5:17 pm to molsusports
quote:
the best you could do IMO would be to take the top four conference champs ranked by computers instead of opinion polls.
I just don't think the teams this year (Baylor and MSU) are more deserving than Alabama.
1. They didn't play as difficult a schedule.
2. MSU lost to Notre Dame.
3. Baylor got mauled by Oklahoma State.
4. Bama lost to the eventual SEC champions.
5. They have one loss.
I agree with the computer portion, and I'm sure we could find an algorithm with enough information posited to make valid points. But I'm also sure top teams from power conferences have to play more often in the regular season.
(Oregon - Bama, Stanford - Auburn, FSU - Missouri, etc. etc.)
1
Posted on 12/8/13 at 5:19 pm to WildTchoupitoulas
quote:
...or worse, a poll of current coaches with an inherent bias yet very little knowledge of all the teams.
A few coaches put Alabama lower than 4th, which was surprising to me. (Surprising being the nice way to put it).
Posted on 12/8/13 at 5:20 pm to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
everyone who has read the thread understands that is your point of view
but the point is to have a system that is supposed to be objective and reward the most deserving teams with an opportunity. the system i've proposed (top four conference champs ranked by computers) is a lot closer to objective to anything I've seen you propose.
tbh your argument seems like a bama argument for "it's obvious we should be included because we think we are the best"
but the point is to have a system that is supposed to be objective and reward the most deserving teams with an opportunity. the system i've proposed (top four conference champs ranked by computers) is a lot closer to objective to anything I've seen you propose.
tbh your argument seems like a bama argument for "it's obvious we should be included because we think we are the best"
Posted on 12/8/13 at 5:23 pm to WildTchoupitoulas
quote:
at least they are not driven by the human needs to prove their preseason rankings correct or to vote for the teams you cover more frequently.
...or worse, a poll of current coaches with an inherent bias yet very little knowledge of all the teams.
they are both flawed poll systems
in theory the coaches should be the most informed within their own conference but they don't poll every single coach and they also ask them to rank teams outside of their own conferences.
the news media pollsters are just too much in the middle of media machines to be able to step outside of their controversy manufacturing factories and rank teams honestly. it is a fundamental problem with their industry rather than a problem specific to any particular pollster.
Posted on 12/8/13 at 5:24 pm to molsusports
quote:
but the point is to have a system that is supposed to be objective and reward the most deserving teams with an opportunity. the system i've proposed (top four conference champs ranked by computers) is a lot closer to objective to anything I've seen you propose.
There's a fatal flaw with that one, though. We lucked out this year with Oregon and Stanford both losing two games.
If either one had lost one and then won their conference game...
FSU, Auburn, Stanford, MSU/Baylor??? How do you tell a team that's 12 - 1 that they can't go?
The computerized ranking would help, but my God I'd want to break my television if my team got left out of the hunt.
Likewise: How would a team from the MWC, AAC or the WAC -ever- get selected to the top four? Or is this with the system proposed?
Posted on 12/8/13 at 5:25 pm to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
What would be disastrous is if there are two undefeated SEC teams in the Conference title game and one of them has to lose causing them to fall out the top 4 and allowing a 1 loss big10 or big12 school to jump em
Posted on 12/8/13 at 5:27 pm to FightingTigers7
quote:
What would be disastrous is if there are two undefeated SEC teams in the Conference title game and one of them has to lose causing them to fall out the top 4 and allowing a 1 loss big10 or big12 school to jump em
I've been arguing that it ought to be the top four teams by the computerized rankings. If there happens to be 2 teams from the same conference (that happens to be the best conference), I can't see a good argument to say a Baylor is more deserving than a 1 loss Georgia, Florida or South Carolina who lost to #1 in the SEC CG.
Posted on 12/8/13 at 5:29 pm to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
IMO, if you can't call yourself the best team in your conference , then you shouldn't be able to call yourself the national champ.
Posted on 12/8/13 at 5:30 pm to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
quote:
There's a fatal flaw with that one, though. We lucked out this year with Oregon and Stanford both losing two games.
If either one had lost one and then won their conference game...
FSU, Auburn, Stanford, MSU/Baylor??? How do you tell a team that's 12 - 1 that they can't go?
The computerized ranking would help, but my God I'd want to break my television if my team got left out of the hunt.
Likewise: How would a team from the MWC, AAC or the WAC -ever- get selected to the top four? Or is this with the system proposed?
you'd still take the top four. granted it would be seen as unfair to the 5th imaginary team but they would have been a team deemed lesser by a semi-objective arbiter and a team your eyeball test proposal would have probably given no consideration to whatsoever.
RE: the midmajors? There's nothing in my proposal that distinguishes between teams of different conferences. They would probably have to schedule aggressively out of conference to convince the computers of their legitimacy but that seems like a good thing rather than a bad thing.
Posted on 12/8/13 at 5:30 pm to LSU316
I think it will. Already there is pressure to get 4 teams into the top 4 from 4 different conferences. That would already throw a wrench into it if it were in use this year.
Posted on 12/8/13 at 5:31 pm to AirRaidTT
quote:
The idea of sending four conference champions is dumb. Send the four best teams and the playoff could be beneficial to college football.
Best is subjective as hell.
Do you use best wins, best losses, or the great "eyeball" test to determine best?
Posted on 12/8/13 at 5:32 pm to NathanL
quote:
IMO, if you can't call yourself the best team in your conference , then you shouldn't be able to call yourself the national champ.
But what if you are still above every other team in the country. You let a team that is @2,3,4 have a "shot" at it because they won a crap conference?
Posted on 12/8/13 at 5:32 pm to Rickdaddy4188
quote:
IMO, if you can't call yourself the best team in your conference , then you shouldn't be able to call yourself the national champ.
I can understand that coming from an LSU fan, or maybe it should be more obvious: A rematch later on down the road doesn't change anything, they're still the same teams.
If you're better, you'll beat 'em twice.
If you're not, you'll lose.
If LSU and Florida both win their conferences and LSU beats Florida (keeping this somewhat in reality :P), but Florida beats them in the SEC CG, I DO think LSU should go to the top 4. Baylor or MSU shouldn't get there by arbitration alone.
Posted on 12/8/13 at 5:33 pm to NathanL
quote:
But what if you are still above every other team in the country. You let a team that is @2,3,4 have a "shot" at it because they won a crap conference?
I don't see why this is a problem. The SEC Champ would have no problem with teams most years, if they did. Who cares?
Posted on 12/8/13 at 5:33 pm to NathanL
quote:
But what if you are still above every other team in the country.
What does that even mean?
How can that be determined objectively?
Posted on 12/8/13 at 5:35 pm to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
quote:
If LSU and Florida both win their conferences and LSU beats Florida (keeping this somewhat in reality :P), but Florida beats them in the SEC CG, I DO think LSU should go to the top 4. Baylor or MSU shouldn't get there by arbitration alone.
How old are you?
Posted on 12/8/13 at 5:35 pm to molsusports
quote:
you'd still take the top four.
Didn't you say earlier that there's no way to retroactively determine who was better and who was worse? Miami tOSU, etc. etc..?
If there are two teams that are undefeated, and three with one loss who won their conference and it's a power conference, we're going to have a lot of trouble with the polling.
Posted on 12/8/13 at 5:36 pm to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
quote:
I can't see a good argument to say a Baylor is more deserving than a 1 loss Georgia, Florida or South Carolina who lost to #1 in the SEC CG.
I disagree
All playoffs have divisions. Treating the conferences as playoff groups isn't perfect but with only four teams qualifying it is a lot more fair than any other proposal.
Several years ago we had three 1 loss teams from the Big 12 that were all highly esteemed. Their esteem was however derived from a general weakness in the rest of the conference (perhaps like at least the bottom half of the SEC this year) and they fared very poorly in their bowl games against out of conference opponents.
In 2006 the conventional wisdom was similarly that tOSU would blow out Florida, Michigan was probably the second best team in teh country but we saw both Michigan and tOSU get destroyed in their bowl games. You don't need to include multiple teams from the same conference in a playoff because it devalues the regular season and it deprives you of the opportunity to see them play other quality teams from other parts of the country.
Posted on 12/8/13 at 5:36 pm to TeLeFaWx
quote:
How old are you?
Old enough to understand Socratic Questioning. :P
Posted on 12/8/13 at 5:37 pm to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
I thought it was clear I was advocating taking the top four teams in the computer rankings rather than the human opinion polls like the AP, Coaches, or Harris.
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