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re: a friend of mine is trying to argue a d3 team could beat a d1
Posted on 12/27/10 at 11:44 am to adammwilson
Posted on 12/27/10 at 11:44 am to adammwilson
quote:
what's it like? I got a few offers to play but turned them down and I'm wondering if I made the wrong choice.
Me too, but I'm pretty sure that getting a real college experience was the right choice.
1
Posted on 12/27/10 at 11:47 am to thunderbird1100
quote:
D3 Wisconsin Whitewater has 11,000 students. Div 1 Mississippi Valley State has 2900. They lost every game they played in '10. UWW would crush them
Bad comparison. MVSU is a FCS school which is the exact same as a Div. 1AA school, which is not really what this debate is about. Plus, UWW would not beat them because they are in frickING DIVISION 3!!
This post was edited on 12/27/10 at 12:45 pm
Posted on 12/27/10 at 12:03 pm to xiv
quote:
D3 over D1 isn't that farfetched, considering that eight D1 schools play by D3 rules. Princeton went 0-7 in the Ivy League; Wisconsin-Whitewater could probably take them this year.
Princeton would blow out Wisc Whitewater. Guys who get offered to play at Princeton are better football players than guys at DIII. Division III guys are smaller and slower than Division I and Princeton recruits from an atheltic talent base that much better than what Division III teams can recruit from.
Now there may be a few guys on a Division III school who turns down an Ivy League school, but we're talking about elite private liberal arts schools like Middlebury and so on.
The division II champs may be able to beat Princeton, but Division III represents a huge talent gap from Division II. In fact the talent gap is greater from Division III to II than it is from Division II to I.
Posted on 12/27/10 at 1:26 pm to thunderbird1100
quote:Gotcha. I knew they were beginning their upgrade at the time, but I thought they were still officially D2.
Not entirely. Once again DIV-IA teams are NOT allowed to schedule DIV-II teams. They were a part of the Great West conference in 2005, a I-AA conference. Just on probationary status for I-AA. They simply werent a full member of I-AA at the time. The last time they played a full DII schedule was 2003 I believe. Great West started in 2004 and they were an founding member.
Same way a team like Alabama can schedule Georgia State. They are probationary I-AA team, although not a full member quite yet.
Posted on 12/27/10 at 1:34 pm to Tds & Beer
quote:
Wisc Whitewater 11,000 students. Div 1 Mississippi Valley State has 2900.
you can only have 11 guys on the field at one time.
AA has a 55 scholarship limit.
the 11,000 students cant help except to cheer.
Posted on 12/28/10 at 1:29 pm to thunderbird1100
quote:
That means nothing. MVSU has scholarship athletes, UW-W has none.
most of Uww has their athletes on scholarship. they're just not on "athletic" scholarships.
comparison of Dline
Uww
quote:
60 Nick Endres DL 6-0 272 So. Waunakee / Waunakee
95 Wesley Hicks DL 6-3 274 Sr. Milwaukee / Vincent
69 Joe Cychner DL 5-11 275 Fr. Genoa City / Lake Geneva Badger
98 Jake Hohlstein DL 6-1 275 So. Portage / Portage
mvs
quote:
93 Chamarko Goldsberry DL 5-9 240 Jr. Helena, Ark.
94 Javaris Fritz DL 6-1 220 Jr. Tarrant, Ala.
95 David Coleman DL 6-2 275 Sr. Richton Park, Ill. /Joliet JC
97 Reginald Foster DL 6-1 265 Sr. Amite, La.
Posted on 12/28/10 at 3:24 pm to RobbBobb
quote:
Division IA teams are not allowed to schedule anyone lower than DIV-IAA teams, so no.
When was that rule enacted? UL-Lafayette lost to a Div II North Alabama a few years ago.
Posted on 12/28/10 at 4:07 pm to Tds & Beer
quote:
I'm pretty sure that getting a real college experience was the right choice.
great point.
Posted on 12/28/10 at 4:09 pm to adammwilson
I love that emoticon. It makes me feel so smart.
Posted on 12/28/10 at 5:19 pm to RobbBobb
quote:
most of Uww has their athletes on scholarship. they're just not on "athletic" scholarships.
They still dont have the resources and what not a I-AA school has. Between recruiting, athletic scholarships, etc...I-AA schools generally attract better players.
And size isn't everything in your D-line comparison, talent matters A LOT too. I'd go to bet MVSU beats out UW-W easily there. I'd imagine the majority of UW-W's roster, without even looking, is just local high school kids.
Posted on 12/28/10 at 5:19 pm to SanFranTiger
quote:
When was that rule enacted? UL-Lafayette lost to a Div II North Alabama a few years ago.
That happened in 1997...
Not sure when the rule was enacted, but its been a while. If you look, DIV-IA teams havent played DIV-II teams or lower in quite some time.
Posted on 12/29/10 at 3:06 pm to WG_Dawg
quote:
That's not even a debate. An average high school team could beat UCONN's women this year.
Try telling that to a woman that believes women can do everything a man can do. I'm all for equality, but there are some things where it just isn't there.
I still say it's more likely for UCONN's women to beat a really bad men's team than a D-III football team to beat a D-I team though, which only means I REALLY don't think a D-III team would win.
Posted on 12/29/10 at 3:18 pm to shuke33
The difference between FBS and FCS is one thing. But the difference between FBS and D-II is quite drastic.
Then when/if you start talking about a D-III team beating an FBS/FCS school.... you obviously don't know jack-fricking-shite.
Then when/if you start talking about a D-III team beating an FBS/FCS school.... you obviously don't know jack-fricking-shite.
Posted on 12/29/10 at 3:36 pm to WG_Dawg
quote:
In basketball? Sure. Football? Eehhhh
A few of us are old enough to recall that an NAIA school defeated the #1 ranked basketball team in the country (Virginia with Ralph Sampson)about 30 years ago. Stranger things have happened. 1AA (FCS) teams defeat BCS schools now and again,(Michigan, Ole Miss recently) so I suppose the best Div. III school could possibly defeat the worst Div I school on a given day.
Posted on 12/29/10 at 8:07 pm to RebFeBrees
quote:
Then when/if you start talking about a D-III team beating an FBS/FCS school.... you obviously don't know jack-fricking-shite.
Wow, some of you guys really sound like experts. Too bad you don't have a clue. Division III #22-ranked Franklin College dominated Division I FCS Valparaiso, 42-7 this season.
Nobody is saying Division III as a whole is better than Division I FCS. But top-25 Division-III teams are clearly on the same level as the lower tier Division I FCS schools, and have proven it on the field.
There are many reasons why this is the case. For one, after the elite high school talents sign with BCS schools, there is a lot of parity in terms of the rest of the talent pool. A high school player who accepts a football scholarship from Southern, or Valpo, or Savannah State, is probably not much different ability-wise than a 4.0 student athlete who wants to get a good degree from academic-minded D-3 Cal-Lutheran.
You might say wait, Southern gives scholarships and Cal-Lutheran doesn't. How can their talent level be similar? The answer is that the kids who go to a school like Cal-Lutheran would rather decline the football scholarship to Southern and go to a better campus environment and get a better degree. Maybe they qualify for a good academic scholarship. Maybe their parents can afford the tuition. Whatever their stories, there are enough of them to fill the rosters of the top D-3 programs, and they beat low-tier D-2 and low-tier D-1 FCS schools every year.
Posted on 12/29/10 at 10:00 pm to RidiculousHype
Bottom Line: You could take a D3 top 15 team and they would get worked by a Sun Belt team.
We aren't going to agree on this subject, apparently. You make some valid points but the fact remains that the talent gap from D1 to D3, especially in the skill positions, is much much much larger than you realize.
We aren't going to agree on this subject, apparently. You make some valid points but the fact remains that the talent gap from D1 to D3, especially in the skill positions, is much much much larger than you realize.
Posted on 12/29/10 at 10:12 pm to RebFeBrees
quote:
Bottom Line: You could take a D3 top 15 team and they would get worked by a Sun Belt team
Sun Belt is FBS, so we agree
quote:
We aren't going to agree on this subject, apparently. You make some valid points but the fact remains that the talent gap from D1 to D3, especially in the skill positions, is much much much larger than you realize.
What? You said earlier that if anyone thought a D-3 team could beat an FCS team, that they "obviously don't know jack-fricking-shite". And I just gave you an example of a D-3 team beating an FCS team this season.
You're entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts!
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