Started By
Message
re: Hoover Police mall shooting-UPDATE pg 9- 2/8/19: Shooting is under Federal review
Posted on 2/6/19 at 7:23 am to MoarKilometers
Posted on 2/6/19 at 7:23 am to MoarKilometers
quote:
They look out for themselves first, others cops 2nd.
And that's exactly the problem most of the time. The entire reason for LEOs existing is to protect the citizens.
Why is it that firefighters understand the true responsibilities of first responders and willing to put their lives on the line, but so many police officers these days aren't?
2
Posted on 2/6/19 at 7:31 am to BowlJackson
quote:I could accept it. The guy started running away, stopped, pulled out his gun, and started going back to the point of the initial altercation where there is a man already shot and lying on the floor.
Im not sure you would be so quick to accept that if that was one of your loved ones in that video and you watched their life get taken in a split second decision, gunned down from behind without so much as a warning.
If he had continued to flee with the rest of the people there, he's still be alive.
Posted on 2/6/19 at 7:44 am to BowlJackson
quote:
The entire reason for LEOs existing is to protect the citizens.
quote:There's nothing wrong with them thinking of themselves first.
And that's exactly the problem most of the time.
quote:
Why is it that firefighters understand the true responsibilities of first responders and willing to put their lives on the line, but so many police officers these days aren't?
Posted on 2/6/19 at 9:22 am to BowlJackson
I get your point, but the counter to that is he was running back towards the scene with a gun drawn, and there were several innocent bystanders in the area. The LEO didn't know his intentions in that moment, and didn't know what his involvement was in the initial shooting. It's an unfortunate situation for all involved, and I generally have a disdain for law enforcement in these situations, but given everything that's now known, I don't see how anyone can argue it was an unjustified shooting. The LEO was protecting the bystanders in that area from another shooting.
I think this situation is a great example of the dangers of arguing for concealed and open carry laws, and I still believe because he was black he wasn't given much benefit of the doubt. But when there's an active shooting situation and a cop sees someone with a gun drawn, amid all the surrounding chaos it's quite difficult to ascertain that person's intentions with that gun.
I think this situation is a great example of the dangers of arguing for concealed and open carry laws, and I still believe because he was black he wasn't given much benefit of the doubt. But when there's an active shooting situation and a cop sees someone with a gun drawn, amid all the surrounding chaos it's quite difficult to ascertain that person's intentions with that gun.
Posted on 2/6/19 at 9:25 am to The Spleen
Guns aren't allowed in that mall anyhow (even with a permit). Maybe the "victim" will abide by the rules in his next life.
Posted on 2/6/19 at 9:28 am to BowlJackson
quote:
The entire reason for LEOs existing is to protect the citizens.
Not according to the Supreme Court. See Castle Rock v Gonzales.
Posted on 2/6/19 at 9:34 am to Korin
quote:
Guns aren't allowed in that mall anyhow
Yeah, but not everyone follows that rule. A few of my friends are big time concealed carry advocates, and they all ignore those rules unless there's a metal detector at the entrance. They also refer to themselves as responsible gun owners.
Posted on 2/6/19 at 9:40 am to Korin
quote:
Guns aren't allowed in that mall anyhow (even with a permit). Maybe the "victim" will abide by the rules in his next life.
Yet 30 minutes after the shooting happened the very first breaking news update, the very first piece of information said only "Active shooter situation in Galleria, many shoppers seen fleeing with guns drawn"
I haven't heard of any of those folks getting repercussions from breaking the rule
Posted on 2/6/19 at 10:36 am to BowlJackson
They were lucky.
Posted on 2/6/19 at 12:13 pm to BowlJackson
quote:
I haven't heard of any of those folks getting repercussions from breaking the rule
Probably because it's not worth tracking them down once they left the premises.
Posted on 2/6/19 at 3:04 pm to pvilleguru
quote:
Probably because it's not worth tracking them down once they left the premises.
So basically if you happen to be in a 1.5 million sq ft facility when a shooting happens you have no right to defend yourself while you're still inside?
Do you take your chances running across the shooter while you are unarmed, or do you pray a cop doesn't see you and end your life without warning?
These days it seems safer to take your chances with the criminals than the cops. At least the criminals aren't accurate, if you get shot by one of them you have a chance to survive. If a cop is going to discharge their firearm these days they're going straight for the kill, no questions asked. No more immobilizing shots and letting them have their day in court, frick the justice system amirite?
Posted on 2/6/19 at 3:40 pm to BowlJackson
quote:
Do you take your chances running across the shooter while you are unarmed, or do you pray a cop doesn't see you and end your life without warning?
I wouldn't have a gun on me. I don't own a gun and I don't want one. If a shooting happened near me, I'd run like hell away from it.
Posted on 2/6/19 at 3:44 pm to pvilleguru
Surely the last thing I would ever do is stand around the crime scene with a gun in my hand.
Posted on 2/6/19 at 9:52 pm to The Spleen
quote:
I get your point, but the counter to that is he was running back towards the scene with a gun drawn, and there were several innocent bystanders in the area. The LEO didn't know his intentions in that moment
And I get your point as well. But I know the layout of the Galleria well. I'm from Hoover, I've probably been there 1000 times throughout my life and I don't even like going there. I almost always use that entrance right by the footlocker Bradford was killed outside of. From the spot where Bradford fell dead, to the spot where the injured man was laying that the officer said he thought Bradford was going to kill, there is enough distance that they could have issued a verbal command, then make their split second decision on his life. And if he were heading for JC Penney to find his friends who had run off in that direction, which is much more likely IMO, then there is twice the distance and twice the time.
quote:
I don't see how anyone can argue it was an unjustified shooting
I've already said that it's easy to understand how the officers jumped to their conclusion in that moment. However, I feel that there was an opportunity to at least attempt to order him to stand down before resorting to lethal force.
That said, while I wouldn't call this man's death justified, I also wouldn't call for criminal charges. His career as a LEO, yes. Criminal charges, no.
This case is different from any of the other highly covered police shootings in the last several years IMO. All the others have been fairly straightforward. Mostly in favor of the cops who's lives were in immediate danger in those cases, or in the case Philando Castille who's died because of the officers incompetence. This is not so cut and dry. It's unique among these high profile police shooting cases. I don't think there's any answer that's going to be satisfying
Posted on 2/6/19 at 10:19 pm to BowlJackson
quote:
I don't think there's any answer that's going to be satisfying
It doesn't have to be satisfying. It just has to be correct. They got this decision correct.
Posted on 2/6/19 at 10:21 pm to BowlJackson
quote:
And if he were heading for JC Penney to find his friends who had run off in that direction, which is much more likely IMO, then there is twice the distance and twice the time.
So the cops are supposed to wait and see if he keeps running straight or turns to his right?
Posted on 2/7/19 at 12:08 am to pvilleguru
You tell him to stop and drop his weapon. If he doesn't IMMEDIATELY begin to stop and comply then yes, there is no choice but to shoot. The cops had a big advantage with Bradford having his back to them if they had been correct that he was a danger and not simply trying to protect himself. Or if he complies then you can breath easy knowing you didn't kill a young man who didn't deserve to die.
Bradford's father is a retired Department of Corrections of 25 years. He was raised around discipline and to respect law enforcement and authority figures. His goal was a military career and even after a medical issue derailed his first attempt he was still in contact with his recruiter in the weeks before his death... These things tell me that Bradford is they type of person who likely would have complied if given the chance.
Clearly he didn't make good choices in friends, but EJ wasn't some delinquent and there's really nothing about him to suggest he would murder somebody inside the biggest mall in the state on the busiest shopping day of the year. He didn't have a record. He had his CC permit. He had a good role model for a father. This wasn't some menacing thug like Michael Brown, it's actually sad that EJ Bradford died.
Bradford's father is a retired Department of Corrections of 25 years. He was raised around discipline and to respect law enforcement and authority figures. His goal was a military career and even after a medical issue derailed his first attempt he was still in contact with his recruiter in the weeks before his death... These things tell me that Bradford is they type of person who likely would have complied if given the chance.
Clearly he didn't make good choices in friends, but EJ wasn't some delinquent and there's really nothing about him to suggest he would murder somebody inside the biggest mall in the state on the busiest shopping day of the year. He didn't have a record. He had his CC permit. He had a good role model for a father. This wasn't some menacing thug like Michael Brown, it's actually sad that EJ Bradford died.
Posted on 2/7/19 at 12:39 am to BowlJackson
IMO Erron Brown, the actual shooter and friend of Bradford, should be held responsible for Bradford's death. By all accounts the fight was really only between the two dudes and Bradford wasn't directly involved in that altercation. You can't control what your friends do. Brown's actions put thousands in danger and directly led to his friends death. Charge him with manslaughter
Posted on 2/8/19 at 8:13 pm to BowlJackson
Sorry boys, not over just yet
LINK
LINK
quote:
As civil rights activists call for a full-scale U.S. Department of Justice investigation into the fatal shooting of Emantic Fitzgerald “EJ” Bradford Jr. by a Hoover police officer inside the Riverchase Galleria, federal officials in Birmingham said they have been involved since the beginning.
“This matter has been, and continues to be, under review by various civil rights components within the Department of Justice since these events occurred,” U.S. Attorney Jay Town told AL.com Friday. “The recent release of a 10-week investigation by the State of Alabama is now a part of that review by those components. Any further comment would be inappropriate at this time.”
Posted on 2/9/19 at 2:31 am to BowlJackson
unfortunately this being reviewed by "civil rights" folks will get it no-where.
I don't think there is any leg to stand on from a "civil rights" standpoint.
EJ had good intentions, but made a poor choice, and got killed for it.
The cops had good intentions, reacted on instinct, and killed an innocent man.
The best case scenario from this is for us to learn what can we change to prevent this from happening again:
people who carry need to realize what they look like in an active-shooter scenario and to either run away from the shooting with their weapon concealed, or hide with their weapon ready to draw, but concealed.
Cops, especially those who work in ALABAMA, need to realize fricking everyone has a gun and exercise more restraint.
I will say this, and this is why this situation pisses me off: If another joe-blow had a gun and made the same mistake the cops did, his arse would be thrown under the prison.
I don't think there is any leg to stand on from a "civil rights" standpoint.
EJ had good intentions, but made a poor choice, and got killed for it.
The cops had good intentions, reacted on instinct, and killed an innocent man.
The best case scenario from this is for us to learn what can we change to prevent this from happening again:
people who carry need to realize what they look like in an active-shooter scenario and to either run away from the shooting with their weapon concealed, or hide with their weapon ready to draw, but concealed.
Cops, especially those who work in ALABAMA, need to realize fricking everyone has a gun and exercise more restraint.
I will say this, and this is why this situation pisses me off: If another joe-blow had a gun and made the same mistake the cops did, his arse would be thrown under the prison.
Page 10 of 11
Popular
Back to top
Follow SECRant for SEC Football News