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re: Same as Muschamp, time for change
Posted on 10/17/17 at 7:23 pm to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
Posted on 10/17/17 at 7:23 pm to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
Maybe Eason is a bust but the Georgia staff was able to get a serviceable guy to back him up while Mac hasn't been able to with an extra year of recruiting .
We are going down hill and UGA is improving. UGA doesn't have to get transfers to come play QB . They actually recruit them from High school. We will see if they can actually coach them up .
Do you think Mac is the right coach for the job ? Will he be the coach in 2019 ? Why does he bring to this team other then a boring personality, poor recruiting and awful play calling ?
We are going down hill and UGA is improving. UGA doesn't have to get transfers to come play QB . They actually recruit them from High school. We will see if they can actually coach them up .
Do you think Mac is the right coach for the job ? Will he be the coach in 2019 ? Why does he bring to this team other then a boring personality, poor recruiting and awful play calling ?
This post was edited on 10/17/17 at 7:26 pm
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Posted on 10/17/17 at 7:56 pm to reel_gator8
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Don't feed the mutts in the cage Straw.
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I will wade in and be respectful.
Not off to a great start, but sure... we'll assume it was all in good fun.
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I am not acutely aware of Smarts coaching abilities from the viewpoint that UGA fans have. Fromm has a very good arm from the few passes I saw him throw. But remember, Straw is 100% correct that it is much easier being a QB with almost an entire senior/jr defense that stops other teams and hands the ball back to the offense in usually decent field position. The fact that the defense is also coupled with a pair (or more) of very good NFL RBs makes it much easier to throw 8-12 passes in a game.
I don't think you'll find anyone arguing that it's not easier for Fromm to have success given what our coaching staff has managed to accomplish this year, between cobbling together an OL that is one of the better in the conference after struggling massively last year, offensive play calling that seems to have negated opponents' desire to crowd the line of scrimmage and take away the running game, and adapting our offensive scheme to account for the unexpected injury at starting QB... Couple that with the level of defensive production this year, and sure... it's allowing him to not *have* to throw for 40-50 attempts per game like Eason was forced to do last season.
With that said... his YPA have been an incredible 9.6 (tops in the conference) and his Passer rating is also at the top of the conference... (to address the comment from dbuchanon above... no need to add in its own thread... I referenced his *effectiveness*, not his raw production... we're not going to be an offense that throws it a ton if we don't have to, it would be ridiculous... total passing yards is an ineffective measure given the imbalance of our offensive scheme... until teams force us to pass more, we simply aren't going to ask him to pass any more than required. I would imagine most coaches would do the same in Smart's spot.
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No two QBs are the same...Franks is almost 6'6" and very skinny. Listed wrongly at 227 lbs. He is gangly and still a little awkward. He has great upside if he learns to stand in the pocket and take hits.
Sure... and I'm not saying he won't take time to develop into his full potential. But what I asked wasn't unreasonable. Full potential and "serviceable QB" aren't mutually exclusive. Brice Ramsey was a highly rated recruit and clearly he hasn't panned out. I would put part of that on incorrect hype and part of it on 3 OCs and 2 different HCs during his time in the program... this very likely stunted any development that he might have made. Generally speaking, it's a two way street. If the coaches don't shoulder any of the responsibility for failing to develop the QB, then they likely shoulder some responsibility for the poor evaluation. Mistakes happen, but for some strange reason, the implication here is that Mac is somehow blameless in the current state of the UF offense... that's simply ludicrous. He's an offensive minded HC who claims that his dog could run his offense... I'd say Franks is a little better than ole Claribelle.
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A lot of folks don't understand football and think presto changeo...as did a lot on this board before the season started and wanted Franks as their starter over Del Rio. He wasn't/isn't ready to play SEC football but has the talent to succeed if he learns to be patient in the pocket.
Not sure who this is directed at. Certainly not my mindset, but how is it that he's not ready to play and that's his fault, rather than the coaches for putting him in a position and a game plan that he's not capable of having success. It's the same critique I had of Kirby/Chaney/Pittman last season when our OL was hot garbage... maybe it wasn't ready, but at some point you gotta cook with what you got... If he's not ready to stand in the pocket and have success, wouldn't you then figure out a gameplan that requires as little of that as possible?
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Our defense will keep us in the game dawgs...how long? I don't know. The offense has to rest them.
Dunno if it will or won't, but one would have to assume they sell out to stop the run and force Fromm to throw it. I think UF probably sets the edge a *little* better than Mizzou, so outside runs may be harder to come by as well... will be interesting to say the least. I know DB has typically been a strength for UF in recent years, but it seems like you've got younger guys back there than most years. Definitely curious to see how Fromm does against better DB coverage assuming he has to throw more frequently than most of our games thus far.
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Completely unrelated, but how has Antonneous Clayton been for you guys thus far - seemed like last year he was mostly a non-factor and haven't heard his name much this year either? I drafted him in our recruiting mock draft back in 2016 and so far seems to have been a bit of a bust... which is sad, because he was one of the best DEs I've ever seen at the HS level from a speed perspective... from all the reports this year, he'd put on more weight to hold up to the rigors of SEC play without dropping speed... was expecting to hear more from him.
Posted on 10/17/17 at 8:06 pm to tjv305
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Maybe Eason is a bust but the Georgia staff was able to get a serviceable guy to back him up while Mac hasn't been able to with an extra year of recruiting .
I'm not even saying he's a bust, and this isn't anything negative.
It's to demonstrate that some guys are not ready when they should be -- Eason didn't look ready when he came back, got sacked and fumbled. It's just bad luck with the backup line -- there are a lot of factors on it.
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We are going down hill and UGA is improving. UGA doesn't have to get transfers to come play QB . They actually recruit them from High school. We will see if they can actually coach them up .
Kirby took a team that was, on average, winning ten wins a year for the last five years.
McElwain took one that was, on average, winning 7.
Smart took the 10 win team and won 7.
McElwain took the 7 win team and won 10, including over Kirby.
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Do you think Mac is the right coach for the job ? Will he be the coach in 2019 ? Why does he bring to this team other then a boring personality, poor recruiting and awful play calling ?
What I like about McElwain is that he seems to have a knack for finding diamonds in the rough. Look at Malik Davis' offers, Callaway, too. Toney? Forget about it.
Those are second string players who look better than first string players over the past few years -- and what I like is that when he actually does have some players with seniority he'll have the backups ready to come out and blow it up like Davis and Toney this year.
He'll be here in 2019 if Corral stays with the class, and I think he's the right coach right now...
If we play Georgia hard. If we pack it up I'll be severely disappointed.
Posted on 10/17/17 at 8:10 pm to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
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I...
Probably should have stopped there...
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you're kind of embarrassing yourself.
Most would argue this probably should have been self directed based on the posts in this thread.
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I was talking about the coaching situation, man. Fromm playing over Eason, two five stars, one of them is younger and is playing while the older more experienced quarterback isn't...
I asked you about *the coaching situation* and you neglected to answer it... instead deferring to other players. As I've pointed out in other posts, Fromm is the beneficiary of several breaks going his way, starting with an injury to Eason. I'm not saying that Eason *would* be performing at the same level, but you can't say that he wouldn't based on the limited sample size thus far. In all reality, we likely aren't able to keep him at the end of this season if he doesn't end up playing significant minutes in games going forward... can't blame him either.
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It's not Kirby's fault, was what I was saying
In what appears to be an attempt to dodge the question and continue to leave Mac/Nuss blameless, you are trying to equate the two scenarios... Eason played last year, and for his faults as a freshman, he still performed at a higher level as a true freshman than Aaron Murray did, with a generally "worse" supporting cast around him, from WR to OL, and of course Chubb coming off of injury and Michel injured to start the season as well (ATV accident :doh:). Note as I've said elsewhere, it's not *all* Mac's fault, but to give him a free pass for his failure to get the offense moving the right direction is pure denial. It's ok... as a UGA fan, I'm interested to see Mac there for a few more seasons. Maybe he works out and he rights the ship? But for an offensive coach, he doesn't seem to have an effective plan to get it going.
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Goddamn you went off the deep end
How I'm taking this conversation:
Calm, cool, collected, without emotion.
How you're taking this conversation:
Quick... humorous deflection...
Where in my post does it appear that I'm emotional... I've addressed most of your talking points and continue to point out where you make spurious arguments to distract from points that you've already attempted to make that have been demonstrably illustrated as false.
Posted on 10/17/17 at 9:15 pm to fibonaccisquared
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In what appears to be an attempt to dodge the question and continue to leave Mac/Nuss blameless
Franks not being ready isn't really saying anything about the staff. Most Freshmen aren't ready, most Freshmen don't have two five star running backs carrying the team for them.
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Where in my post does it appear that I'm emotional...
You're writing novels about positions I'm not taking -- you even went to the length to talk about an ''insult'' when it wasn't what I was doing at all -- I was doing the opposite.
Teams not being ready can be on the coaches (LSU)
Single players not being ready can be on the player (A&M)
The rest of the team executed, Franks did not.
Fromm isn't doing better than Eason (your own words) because of his extensive time with the coaches, he's doing better because he's ready -- and looks sharper than Eason did last year. A lot sharper.
It's hard to make an argument for good or for worse on such little content.
If Franks looked the way Driskel did in his third year, I think I'd pull the trigger -- but they seemed to do pretty well with Grier and Del Rio, both of which managed the games.
This conversation is just not going in a productive direction (since the very beginning when you misinterpretted what I was talking about), so I'm going to go ahead and bow out.
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Where in my post does it appear that I'm emotional...
The entire conversation?
Posted on 10/18/17 at 3:59 pm to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
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Franks not being ready isn't really saying anything about the staff. Most Freshmen aren't ready, most Freshmen don't have two five star running backs carrying the team for them.
Ok... I can never remember when it's ok to use recruiting rankings and when it's not not... this must be one of the good times. Thanks for letting me know.
Not sure why it's so hard to understand that our offensive balance may make his job easier, but he still has to complete the passes... we're over 50% on third downs... he's reading the plays and making the correct call. No one is saying Franks should have the same level of production, but in year 2 under Mac/Nuss, that he is outright losing games for you in your words and that is somehow all his fault is ridiculous... either they're putting him in unprepared or they are asking him to do more than he's capable of and they are aware of it... either way, the buck stops with the coaches. "We need to execute better" is some world class shirking of accountability.
Additionally, you're talking out of both sides here... Fromm's job is easier because of 5* backs around him, but Mac gets a pass on recruiting because he identifies stud 3* guys... fine... it's still talented running backs. UF has a 4* Juco RB right now who is 3rd string... and a high 4* RB suspended for being an idiot it would seem. At some point you have to acknowledge that the coaches have a hand in the situation if you're being honest... either from failing to recruit the right caliber of athlete to surround the QB to be successful, or in failing to put together a gameplan that will allow you to minimize Franks' negative impact on the game and accentuate his strengths. As I said, I have the same criticism of Smart and the staff from last season... gotta recognize what you're working with and plan accordingly.
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You're writing novels about positions I'm not taking -- you even went to the length to talk about an ''insult'' when it wasn't what I was doing at all -- I was doing the opposite.
I write at length literally everywhere on these boards... and "positions you're not taking" is a very liberal usage of that phrase... if you want to claim that your comment wasn't meant to slight Eason's performance, go for it... the rest of us can see otherwise. Franks isn't just not great, he isn't a *serviceable* QB thus far... of course, the WLOCP is coming up, so this is the time for all your players to summon their otherworldly powers and play better than they have all season
- I never count this game as a win until the clock counts down... gotta give you that. quote:
Fromm isn't doing better than Eason (your own words)
Fromm is doing better than Eason did in 2016... my words. You can't gauge one way or the other what Eason *would* do with more snaps at this point... simply not enough data to support a conclusion. I'm good with Fromm continuing though... ride the horse that got you there. That may be what you were stating with this comment ("It's hard to make an argument for good or for worse on such little content.") but not certain.
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If Franks looked the way Driskel did in his third year, I think I'd pull the trigger -- but they seemed to do pretty well with Grier and Del Rio, both of which managed the games.
I think this might be where you're misunderstanding me. I'm not saying Mac needs to be gone right now, in fact I said the opposite in another thread... it's no man's land though. Can't really fire Mac even if you wanted to with back to back East titles... it's possible, but doesn't fill an incoming coach with a ton of good vibes... not the kind of coach that I imagine UF would want to replace him with. But if you keep him, what encouragement do you have that he's either a) going to get Franks ready in year 3 (RSSo) or b) Corral in year 1 to operate the offense at a high enough level to win meaningful games? The defense has dropped off a bit, giving up about 5 points/game more in 2017 so far than it did on average in Mac's first 2 seasons. The offense would be expected to pick up that slack to some degree but so far, but other than Muschamp's really bad 2013, it looks like Mac has failed to produce a scoring offense better than any of the Muschamp years. In fact, it looks like Muschamp's final season was his best offensive year with 30 points/game.
Maybe he surprises and turns things around once he has a full complement of his scholarship athletes back and another year with Franks, but it's not as though the people saying that you're in trouble are way out of bounds. If you look at what is "most likely" it's a better chance that Mac is gone after 18 than he's turned the ship back around and gotten back on track to win/compete for the East or more.
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The entire conversation?
Posted on 10/18/17 at 4:31 pm to fibonaccisquared
Good Lord
Cliff notes anyone??
TLDR
Cliff notes anyone??
TLDR
Posted on 10/18/17 at 4:41 pm to dbuchanon
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GF;CR
FIFY
Posted on 10/18/17 at 4:53 pm to fibonaccisquared
Uh oh
Someones triggered lol
Someones triggered lol
Posted on 10/18/17 at 5:26 pm to dbuchanon
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Someones triggered lol
My favorite response from a poster who can't be bothered to read... you're like a poor facsimile of Straws... it's actually impressive. He at least is capable of reading the comments before making dumb remarks.
On a message board, if someone types something, and you respond in kind, you're "triggered"... why is that, when the entire premise of a message board is to facilitate further discussion. If I was triggered by something a gator posted, why in the hell would I come to your board in the first place?
Posted on 10/18/17 at 5:31 pm to dbuchanon
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Someones triggered lol
Super triggered.
Posted on 10/18/17 at 6:43 pm to dbuchanon
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Uh oh
Someones triggered lol
''Georgia's offense is mostly comprised of their capacity to run the ball.''
''Here's my thesis, cucks. If you don't refute one of the many misrepresentations I've made I win.''
Posted on 10/18/17 at 6:46 pm to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
Luckily for Smart, he came in behind a HC who recruited BOTH sides of the ball.
Posted on 10/18/17 at 7:03 pm to dbuchanon
Should we all just ignore straws, he has deluded himself and no point in continuing.
He will pump Mac just like Champ. Till the end. The obviously poor coaching is there. He just won't accept it.
He will pump Mac just like Champ. Till the end. The obviously poor coaching is there. He just won't accept it.
Posted on 10/18/17 at 7:10 pm to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
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Here's my thesis, cucks. If you don't refute one of the many misrepresentations I've made I win
Quality self analysis. I wasn't sure you were capable of it. Wonders never cease I suppose.
The two downvotes from you two are actually kinda cute. It's sweet that you found your special someone honestly.
Posted on 10/18/17 at 7:16 pm to Gatorbait2008
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Should we all just ignore straws, he has deluded himself and no point in continuing.
He will pump Mac just like Champ. Till the end. The obviously poor coaching is there. He just won't accept it.
I criticize the man all the time -- literally all the time. He mad me so upset during the LSU game that I actually wanted him gone for a few hours.
Then I look back at what he's accomplished, and with how little he's had to work with, and I'm impressed.
You, however, would struggle to say one good thing about him -- no matter that our mostly underclassmen defense just held A&M to their least amount of yards and points the entire year (outside of Alabama, which we tied).
On offense, even without playmakers we have almost had a four hundred yard game. Even without his top 3 receivers, best quarterback and running back we can move the ball.
You're delusional.
An impudent, spoiled brat throwing a tantrum. You want results and you want them NOW.
And no matter what positives come out of our already depleted roster, you will continue to retardedly plod forward with your same rhetoric.
I defy you to name 3 good things about McElwain, I will name 3 that I dislike.
1. He doesn't go for points nor take chances. (It's probably the thing I hate the most about him.)
2. He runs a very vanilla offense when down to his second-string quarterback.
3. He doesn't show enough emotions, he doesn't get excited and I think the team suffers from this. I get he's under a lot of stress, and I'm not asking that he goes crazy but I'd love to see him with more emotion.
Go ahead.
Posted on 10/19/17 at 8:12 am to Gatorbait2008
I'm ready for Leach or CHip Kelly.
Posted on 10/19/17 at 8:28 am to OliverQueen81
Chip Kelly isnt coaching here
Coach Leach is rumored to Nebraska since he has a great respect for his former AD
Yes, id take either, Leach preferred but its not happening imo
Coach Leach is rumored to Nebraska since he has a great respect for his former AD
Yes, id take either, Leach preferred but its not happening imo
Posted on 10/19/17 at 2:12 pm to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
Good things
Finally recruiting to UF standards
Great job with facilities
Good at beating teams we should beat
Problem is. He isn't good enough. Winning the Worst Sec east in history isn't all that much of an accomplishment. I would take 2012 over any of Macs years.
He just isn't an elite coach in any way. Not elite on gameday. Not an elite developer, not an elite recruiter.
He simply isn't good enough. Simple as that. He is not a strong leader, and I see nothing about him that shows signs of greatness
Finally recruiting to UF standards
Great job with facilities
Good at beating teams we should beat
Problem is. He isn't good enough. Winning the Worst Sec east in history isn't all that much of an accomplishment. I would take 2012 over any of Macs years.
He just isn't an elite coach in any way. Not elite on gameday. Not an elite developer, not an elite recruiter.
He simply isn't good enough. Simple as that. He is not a strong leader, and I see nothing about him that shows signs of greatness
This post was edited on 10/19/17 at 2:14 pm
Posted on 10/19/17 at 8:31 pm to OliverQueen81
SEC teams need to make some serious coaching up grades after this season. They need to make Kelly , Stoops , Fuente and Frost say no. If this conference doesn’t up grade the coaching it’s going to fall behind some of the conference like the big 10 who are scared to speed the money on big name coaches and they have some of the Young/newer up and coming coaches like Brohm and pJ Fleck.
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