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re: 2017 Gamecock Football - Way Too Early Outlook
Posted on 12/15/16 at 12:10 pm to Cockopotamus
Posted on 12/15/16 at 12:10 pm to Cockopotamus
quote:
He also left us with the parting gift of Frank Martin. Which is way more important than the Stanley hire imo.
Yes he did and Ray Tanner was not happy about that. Ray was good friends with Darin Horn and he wanted to give Horn another year or two and save the contract money they lost in the Horn payout and in paying Martin more money.
I'm sure he's glad he didn't get his way now.
Understand ... Hyman made the Martin hire right before he departed for A&M. Tanner didn't want him doing that.
1
Posted on 12/15/16 at 10:24 pm to GameCocky88
quote:
Well son of a bitch... word is that Skai may not be playing for us next year after all.
Where are you hearing that?
I went to a dinner tonight that had some people who I thought might give some insight to that and no one knew what the heck I was talking about.
All I was told was that he would not be practicing during bowl workouts but he was doing fine and was on track to return to the team in the spring.
Did you get it from a good source 88? Should we be worried?
He's supposed to be our safety/spur kinda guy next season.
Posted on 12/16/16 at 12:36 am to scrooster
quote:
Yes he did and Ray Tanner was not happy about that. Ray was good friends with Darin Horn and he wanted to give Horn another year or two and save the contract money they lost in the Horn payout and in paying Martin more money.
I'm sure he's glad he didn't get his way now.
I can respect that Tanner wanted to pay Martin more money...but in this scenario Martin wouldn't have been available in a year or two. We got him in the midst of a perfect storm when his K State AD suspended a key player during March Madness and he was more than willing to jump ship.
For what it's worth, Hyman's legacy will be A) boosting fees and ticket prices to make us competitive in the SEC. This is coming from someone who studied and wrote papers on the business side of sports management and collegiate athletics (complain if you must, but I paid those donor fees both as a young alumni living in SC and now as an older alumni living elsewhere) B) Staley and Martin. Tanner gave Staley money to stay but you can see genuine growth in all players under Frank and far more effort and character. I also mean this in no offense to NCAAWB, but the men's game is harder to build a program in. And C) keeping us competitive in the facilities race. I know this goes back to point A, but lets think about this...he oversaw and pushed for many projects we have now that look great. I remember as a freshman tailgating in dirt under rusty metal signs in the Fairgrounds. I'm sure Ray is a great guy (we shopped in the same store when I lived in Columbia) but Hyman was a solid, fiscally sound voice we needed from the outside to do more good than bad,
That said...I expect 8+ wins next season as well. I'd say we should have had 8 this year...but that's greedy in retrospect.
This post was edited on 12/16/16 at 1:08 am
Posted on 12/16/16 at 9:00 am to HorseshoeCock
I think a lot of people dislike Hyman because he isn't "one of us"
he's basically a hired gun.
I find it similar to when say BOA poaches a guy from Goldman.
Of course others won't like him, and he may have not been bred from the BOA ranks, but He's obviously very good at what he does and most likely better than anyone else at BOA who was in line for that role.
he's basically a hired gun.
I find it similar to when say BOA poaches a guy from Goldman.
Of course others won't like him, and he may have not been bred from the BOA ranks, but He's obviously very good at what he does and most likely better than anyone else at BOA who was in line for that role.
Posted on 12/16/16 at 9:32 am to I Bleed Garnet
Yea I've never understood the hate hyman would get outside of "my football tickets are more expensive". It's not like we were seeing immediate results and we were one of the last schools in the sec without PSLs.
And while Tanner may not have appreciated Hyman hiring Frank as he was walking out the door it was best for the program. The last two years of Darrin Horn were unwatchable and a coach like Frank walking through our door was a one time opportunity.
And while Tanner may not have appreciated Hyman hiring Frank as he was walking out the door it was best for the program. The last two years of Darrin Horn were unwatchable and a coach like Frank walking through our door was a one time opportunity.
Posted on 12/16/16 at 11:15 am to Cockopotamus
I hate to really "call out" or say anything regarding roosters opinions.
But this right here:
This right here I actually LOVE about an AD.
But this right here:
quote:
Eric Hyman and he was a total politician. although he too is a little too political and a little too money oriented. And I like Waddell. I was not crazy about Eric, not in the least. All he cared about was building things, spending money and putting his name on everything
This right here I actually LOVE about an AD.
Posted on 12/16/16 at 7:28 pm to HorseshoeCock
HorseshoeCock
I don't think Ray's issue was wanting to pay Martin more money .... I think his issue was wanting to give Horn another year, because they were friends, while saving the extra money Martin was paid as well as the added payout to Horn. I think Ray wanting to make his own hire played into it, at the time, as well.
I agree with you though - making the move for Martin when Hyman did was the smart move. I also know for a fact that Ray and Martin are buddies now. Even though season before last Ray had to ask Frank to watch his language during the games.
With regard to Eric's legacy I agree. He raised ticket prices and instituted the PSL policy which was long overdue. Everyone hated it, especially the real old timers' families who were enjoying the fruits of their elders' labor, ... but most everyone agreed it had to be done. But I will tell you Eric got a bad rap for most of that because it was something that had been in discussion all the way back to the McGee era and it was something we all knew was eventually coming and, more importantly, it was something the BoTs pushed - Hyman was more the face of it than anything, although he did order the studies and he was very familiar with the instituting process.
Building wise - he took a lot of credit for things that were put in motion before he got here .... the baseball stadium being the main project.
Listen, and I'm sure everyone already knows this but just as a reminder, the athletic department operates on a calendar basically ... when it comes to building improvements they plan and budget years in advance. Nothing gets done overnight or within a year for that matter. It's always two or three or four years out, sometimes more.
Hyman benefited from coming in behind McGee who inherited a program with little money, and he put plans in motion based upon projected income. Hyman followed through on those and put more plans in motion, based upon projected revenue ... plans which Tanner carried through on. Tanner in turn has benefited in a couple of ways.
Tanner has been able to build-up the emergency fund, which was ultra important to the Board, while at the same time Tanner has enjoyed a revenue boom for the conference thanks to TV deals.
So these days AD who are good construction managers are very important - and Hyman was good at that. Tanner is getting pretty good at it as well.
The difference between the two is that Hyman was not a coach's AD. Tanner IS a coach's AD because he has been a coach. Hyman was too much of a politician and Hyman let his wife get too involved in things at times.
The Farmers Market project was always McGee's idea. Mike McGee had pushed for that for years but was shot down over and over again by the Board ... and for good reason, we simply did not have the money at the time OR, and this is important, we did not have the backing at the Statehouse. McGee had to fight taterheads in the Statehouse, he had to fight detractors connected to other schools in the state who wanted more money for their alma maters, he had to fight city officials ... but it was always Mike McGee who pushed to buy the Farmers Market.
The Fairgrounds upgrade was a Fairgrounds/State project that had a completely different dynamic. It was completely and totally revenue based, or motivated, and that was a project that was more between the State Fairgrounds management and the Gamecock Club, not Hyman. The Gamecock Club made it a profitable endeavor for the State Fairgrounds ... and if you really really want to understand what the University of South Carolina was fighting in terms of getting the Fairgrounds upgraded, all you need to know and understand is that those fairgrounds, beside our stadium, are operated by the SC Agricultural and Mechanical Society ... it is a non-profit that gives tons of scholarships each year to ... guess who ... and I'll just leave this here to help everyone better understand what I'm talking about. LINK
Understand that the parking revenue dollars that are generated by our Gamecock Club deal we did with the State Fairgrounds management ... understand where those dollars go by clicking the link above, and why it took so many years to get the deal done.
quote:
I can respect that Tanner wanted to pay Martin more money...but in this scenario Martin wouldn't have been available in a year or two. We got him in the midst of a perfect storm when his K State AD suspended a key player during March Madness and he was more than willing to jump ship.
I don't think Ray's issue was wanting to pay Martin more money .... I think his issue was wanting to give Horn another year, because they were friends, while saving the extra money Martin was paid as well as the added payout to Horn. I think Ray wanting to make his own hire played into it, at the time, as well.
I agree with you though - making the move for Martin when Hyman did was the smart move. I also know for a fact that Ray and Martin are buddies now. Even though season before last Ray had to ask Frank to watch his language during the games.
With regard to Eric's legacy I agree. He raised ticket prices and instituted the PSL policy which was long overdue. Everyone hated it, especially the real old timers' families who were enjoying the fruits of their elders' labor, ... but most everyone agreed it had to be done. But I will tell you Eric got a bad rap for most of that because it was something that had been in discussion all the way back to the McGee era and it was something we all knew was eventually coming and, more importantly, it was something the BoTs pushed - Hyman was more the face of it than anything, although he did order the studies and he was very familiar with the instituting process.
Building wise - he took a lot of credit for things that were put in motion before he got here .... the baseball stadium being the main project.
Listen, and I'm sure everyone already knows this but just as a reminder, the athletic department operates on a calendar basically ... when it comes to building improvements they plan and budget years in advance. Nothing gets done overnight or within a year for that matter. It's always two or three or four years out, sometimes more.
Hyman benefited from coming in behind McGee who inherited a program with little money, and he put plans in motion based upon projected income. Hyman followed through on those and put more plans in motion, based upon projected revenue ... plans which Tanner carried through on. Tanner in turn has benefited in a couple of ways.
Tanner has been able to build-up the emergency fund, which was ultra important to the Board, while at the same time Tanner has enjoyed a revenue boom for the conference thanks to TV deals.
So these days AD who are good construction managers are very important - and Hyman was good at that. Tanner is getting pretty good at it as well.
The difference between the two is that Hyman was not a coach's AD. Tanner IS a coach's AD because he has been a coach. Hyman was too much of a politician and Hyman let his wife get too involved in things at times.
The Farmers Market project was always McGee's idea. Mike McGee had pushed for that for years but was shot down over and over again by the Board ... and for good reason, we simply did not have the money at the time OR, and this is important, we did not have the backing at the Statehouse. McGee had to fight taterheads in the Statehouse, he had to fight detractors connected to other schools in the state who wanted more money for their alma maters, he had to fight city officials ... but it was always Mike McGee who pushed to buy the Farmers Market.
The Fairgrounds upgrade was a Fairgrounds/State project that had a completely different dynamic. It was completely and totally revenue based, or motivated, and that was a project that was more between the State Fairgrounds management and the Gamecock Club, not Hyman. The Gamecock Club made it a profitable endeavor for the State Fairgrounds ... and if you really really want to understand what the University of South Carolina was fighting in terms of getting the Fairgrounds upgraded, all you need to know and understand is that those fairgrounds, beside our stadium, are operated by the SC Agricultural and Mechanical Society ... it is a non-profit that gives tons of scholarships each year to ... guess who ... and I'll just leave this here to help everyone better understand what I'm talking about. LINK
Understand that the parking revenue dollars that are generated by our Gamecock Club deal we did with the State Fairgrounds management ... understand where those dollars go by clicking the link above, and why it took so many years to get the deal done.
Posted on 12/16/16 at 8:24 pm to Cockopotamus
quote:
Yea I've never understood the hate hyman would get outside of "my football tickets are more expensive". It's not like we were seeing immediate results and we were one of the last schools in the sec without PSLs.
Eric wasn't liked because he was an arse. Plain and simple. He was a pompous arse. He looked down his nose at everyone. He was an arse.
He took total credit for the Mrs Dodie money ... but Mrs Dodie had planned to pledge that money six years before Hyman ever got here.
Eric was a UNC a-hole ... that's the best way I can put it.
Here's a couple of personal stories, take them for what they are worth.
2005 and we're all at the Spurrier preseason golf tourney. It was the first real time some of us had gotten to interact not only with Steve but also with Eric. It was over at what was then the University Club, in the old temporary clubhouse, before it became Cobblestone. So Eric was playing in the foursome ahead of mine and we were constantly catching them at the tee-box so we had talked and joked, all of us had, through most of the round. Then once all the awards are handed out and everyone is done eating and I'm walking down the hallway out to the parking lot and Eric grabs me and asks me to go for a ride with him. So we walk over to his car, he's driving a Lincoln Town Car mind you ... and we get in and go for a ride. He tells me he needs me to do something and then he starts talking about his resume and everything he's accomplished and I'm thinking ... this guy is the full package, very accomplished, but very very very different than Mike McGee. Hyman was a salesman. Hyman was a politician and I've never particularly trusted politicians. But eventually we get to the rub and he asks me for something just before we pull back into the parking lot and he drops me off at the temporary clubhouse and I'm thinking, "damn, wtf just happened?"
So I thought about it for awhile, why he took me for that ride and I thought, hell no. Bad start. I'm not down with that so the next day I call Em and get her to put me through to him and I explained why I was declining ... and he was not happy. So anyways, long story short sometime later he finds out there is something else he wants from me. This time some property of mine you might say ... not a favor but something else. And so he knows he and I had not spoken in over a year so he sends Jeff Crane to negotiate the deal. So Jeff invites me over to the ... I wanna say it was the last regional played at the Sarge and I'm up in the perch there behind the field, the dining facility, sitting with Jeff and we're talking and Eric sees me and comes over, pats Jeff on the back, leans down, whispers something in his ear ... looks at me, doesn't even bother shaking my hand or anything, then walks off nose in the air.
Now up until that very moment I was seriously thinking about donating that property. Instead, what he did was so snobby ... I said frick it. I smiled at Jeff, shook his hand and thanked him for the meal, left the room and went down to my seats.
Now that was Eric Hyman. So a couple of days later I get another call and this time the word "lawyers" was brought into the conversation and I laughed ... told them, yeah, get your lawyers and let's see how far that gets you.
Now here I was, a huge Gamecock fan and supporter ... and they were trying the strong arm move.
So I'm thinking to myself - are these people nuts? Why alienate someone like me? But before long I started hearing other stories from other guys like me. People who were willing to donate, or whatever, do big favors ... but maybe wanted small favors in return like a seat upgrade or whatever. I'm talking about willing to give six figure donations for a seat upgrade ... but they were cold shouldered.
So a couple two or three years go by and I get this friendly call and it sounded like it was a let bygones be bygones call. So I get invited, a friend of mine and me, to the Kentucky basketball game to sit with Eric and Mrs Dodie. It was the game where Devan Downey beat Kentucky ... what was that, 2009 maybe? So anyways, I had some friends, big Gamecock fans, serving in Afghanistan at the time. They had asked me to keep them updated on the game because they were going to be in the field during the game and were not going to be able to watch it ... so I was texting them. Eric says I'll never be invited to sit with him again because I'm not watching the game ... I'm texting. So I laugh and explain to him about exactly who it is I am texting to ... and he doesn't really care. He was offended that I was texting the guys the score while sitting there next to him.
Mrs Dodie whispered in my ear, "You keep right on texting those boys - I think it is fine what you are doing."
The guys got together and sent me a couple of unit coins to give to Eric and Mrs Dodie a couple of weeks later ... which I did. He could have cared less ... she thought it was great.
That was Eric Hyman.
But like I say, I saw him down at Jerri and Steve's anniversary gala and was surprised he was invited ... but he seemed far more relaxed, far more humbled. I guess A&M took him down a notch or two or perhaps, being retired ... I guess he might be a less obnoxious person now.
With regard to the hiring of Dawn and Frank ... he did a great job. With regard to the Master Building Plan, he did a great job of taking it to the next level. With regard to allowing Pauline to have so much influence on the program ... that was not cool. With regard to working with the coaches, I'm not sure some of his methodology was, or ever will be, appreciated.
Eric Hyman was the right guy at the right time for us - sam could be said for Mike McGee - he was a major get. Honestly, and I doubt anyone will argue this fact ... we have been very very fortunate in terms of ADs at SC since John Palms was hired as President. He started it with Mike, then Sorenson hired Hyman and then Harris hired Ray. So our ADs are a direct reflection of our Presidents at the time and all three of those Presidents were very solid ... Palms and Pastides really stood/stand out as excellent Presidents on a national lever though.
Posted on 12/16/16 at 11:08 pm to Cockopotamus
Check The State for an article about Chris Matlock - Saturday's paper I think.
And again, we're in good shape as a program right now.
Muschamp is going to get the job done.
Shawn Elliott is gone.
We're about to hire a really good OLine coach.
We're about to sign a Top 15 recruiting class.
We need to win our bowl game.
And again, we're in good shape as a program right now.
Muschamp is going to get the job done.
Shawn Elliott is gone.
We're about to hire a really good OLine coach.
We're about to sign a Top 15 recruiting class.
We need to win our bowl game.
Posted on 12/17/16 at 10:11 am to scrooster
quote:
We need to win our bowl game.
This really is important after that debacle in Death Valley. That game stole all our late season momentum, and we need to show recruits a positive step forward here. Plus it would be a top 25 win, extend our 4 game bowl win streak, and give us a winning season. I really hope we have a good showing and pull a win out of this game.
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