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Extra-Terrestrial musings
Posted on 6/9/18 at 3:28 am
Posted on 6/9/18 at 3:28 am
So, I was watching some alien documentary yesterday and it got me thinking about possibilities regarding Extra-terrestrial life. Particularly regarding contact between humans and aliens. And also whether we have been visited in the last 200 years or so, and why we haven't been contacted.
Off the top of my head the reasons are:
A) It is believed that man is too destructive and that the sharing of technology would be of no benefit to a more passive race.
B) We're simply being studied like one would study a den of bears, purely for fascination.
C) We're being experimented on. Theories range from gene-splicing for species preservation, to pure academia, to finding our weaknesses to prepare our annihilation. (This last one being ridiculous tinfoil musing since I would assume an alien species with space travel technology could create a kill virus in a matter of days.)
I write all that to say this.
Say, in the next 200 years we do in fact accomplish deep space travel and we DO find life existing on another planet. It would be safe to assume that the alien species (or should I say indigenous species) has not discovered space travel since we would be initiating contact.
How do you think that meeting would go down? I'm talking about an indigenous life much like ours in, let's say, A.D. 100. Only they're little green men. How would man-kind treat such a species. They would be considered less intelligent but with the capacity to learn... Still, my guess would be that we would attempt AT LEAST minor colonization and immediately take our place as rulers of the planet.
Now turn the coin over and let's say that the indigenous species is mankind intelligent circa A.D. 100 but they are the size of dinosaurs. What would be our response then? Would we enlighten them? Teach them space travel? Show them our strengths and weaknesses so that they may become our betters? How would mankind react to the possibility of "creating" our betters? Mankind is not humble.
If we are being visited it's likely that the E.T.'s are, in fact, green little pussies who are bogarting space travel techonology in a solar system with limited resources with regards to the scope of entire civilizations.
Off the top of my head the reasons are:
A) It is believed that man is too destructive and that the sharing of technology would be of no benefit to a more passive race.
B) We're simply being studied like one would study a den of bears, purely for fascination.
C) We're being experimented on. Theories range from gene-splicing for species preservation, to pure academia, to finding our weaknesses to prepare our annihilation. (This last one being ridiculous tinfoil musing since I would assume an alien species with space travel technology could create a kill virus in a matter of days.)
I write all that to say this.
Say, in the next 200 years we do in fact accomplish deep space travel and we DO find life existing on another planet. It would be safe to assume that the alien species (or should I say indigenous species) has not discovered space travel since we would be initiating contact.
How do you think that meeting would go down? I'm talking about an indigenous life much like ours in, let's say, A.D. 100. Only they're little green men. How would man-kind treat such a species. They would be considered less intelligent but with the capacity to learn... Still, my guess would be that we would attempt AT LEAST minor colonization and immediately take our place as rulers of the planet.
Now turn the coin over and let's say that the indigenous species is mankind intelligent circa A.D. 100 but they are the size of dinosaurs. What would be our response then? Would we enlighten them? Teach them space travel? Show them our strengths and weaknesses so that they may become our betters? How would mankind react to the possibility of "creating" our betters? Mankind is not humble.
If we are being visited it's likely that the E.T.'s are, in fact, green little pussies who are bogarting space travel techonology in a solar system with limited resources with regards to the scope of entire civilizations.
Posted on 6/9/18 at 3:47 am to hogNsinceReagan
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How do you think that meeting would go down? I'm talking about an indigenous life much like ours in, let's say, A.D. 100. Only they're little green men. How would man-kind treat such a species.
That's hard to tell. Look at how much humanity's (at least the West) political landscape and average moral compass has changed in the last 200 years, 200 years from now it will be equally different.
What if we made this discovery today?
There's a spectrum of approaches that different actors would take, Americans and Europeans would debate about whether we should even make contact and then we'd probably try very hard not to manipulate them unduly while others like the Chinese would probably be less bashful about openly exploiting them.
There's no telling how humans will be in 200 years. There'd probably be a huge debate about how to interact with them. If there are still competing factions between humans exploitation of the ETs would be more likely.
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Now turn the coin over and let's say that the indigenous species is mankind intelligent circa A.D. 100 but they are the size of dinosaurs.
I doubt it would be any different. If we're at the point that we can easily travel across the stars we're going to have the technology to easily defend against their size.
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Would we enlighten them? Teach them space travel? Show them our strengths and weaknesses so that they may become our betters? How would mankind react to the possibility of "creating" our betters? Mankind is not humble
It all comes down to conflict within our group. All you have to do is look at the history of colonialism. Conflicts between European powers fueled exploration and imperialism, had those conflicts not existed colonialism would probably have been pursued with less gusto and energy. It'll be the same thing with the ETs.
Now cue the low T physics-cucks to come in here to tell you why we'll never run in to another civilization anytime soon.
Posted on 6/9/18 at 3:56 am to KSGamecock
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There's a spectrum of approaches that different actors would take, Americans and Europeans would debate about whether we should even make contact and then we'd probably try very hard not to manipulate them unduly while others like the Chinese would probably be less bashful about openly exploiting them.
This is pretty much inline with how I was thinking. It probably wouldn't get as bad as to cause a war amongst ourselves but the alien species would definitely become aware of our philosophical feuding amongst ourselves. If we haven't melted into a single race by then then the aliens would also probably categorize us by race.
It would be hard to assume China would take a backseat in the debate and there would be a whole lot of dick swinging going on on how we would approach it.
Posted on 6/9/18 at 3:58 am to hogNsinceReagan
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If we haven't melted into a single race by then
Inshallah
Posted on 6/9/18 at 4:01 am to KSGamecock
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Now turn the coin over and let's say that the indigenous species is mankind intelligent circa A.D. 100 but they are the size of dinosaurs.
I doubt it would be any different. If we're at the point that we can easily travel across the stars we're going to have the technology to easily defend against their size.
Not to mention how costly and resource consuming it would be for beings of that size to space travel.
Posted on 6/9/18 at 4:22 am to hogNsinceReagan
Is their planet scaled to match their size or is it Earth sized?
Posted on 6/9/18 at 4:26 am to KSGamecock
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Is their planet scaled to match their size or is it Earth sized?
That's another good question and if there planet is even smaller than Earth but has just as much landmass that could hurt their resource count also. Could you imagine how much it would cost to build a NASA space shuttle for three people the size of a T-Rex?
This post was edited on 6/9/18 at 5:06 am
Posted on 6/9/18 at 7:33 am to hogNsinceReagan
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Could you imagine how much it would cost to build a NASA space shuttle for three people the size of a T-Rex?
We'll have shrink rays by then, or we can just steal one of their babies.
Posted on 6/9/18 at 7:59 am to KSGamecock
I think if we went to another planet with intelligent life on it, the reaction would be;
1. Immediately defensive. Probably physically so.
2. Very high likelihood our presence would undermine their long held beliefs about their place in the universe.
3. Very high probability that our arrival would undermine or destroy whatever belief system they had such as religion. (see point 1).
This is exactly how we will react when it happens.
1. Immediately defensive. Probably physically so.
2. Very high likelihood our presence would undermine their long held beliefs about their place in the universe.
3. Very high probability that our arrival would undermine or destroy whatever belief system they had such as religion. (see point 1).
This is exactly how we will react when it happens.
This post was edited on 6/9/18 at 8:00 am
Posted on 6/9/18 at 11:38 am to hogNsinceReagan
I think any intelligent alien civilization will have evolved under similar conditions to humans. By that I mean we have had to become the apex predator on the planet. We may have descended from plant eaters but we had to become meat eaters to evolve the brains that have allowed us to conquer every other species.
Alien intelligent species will have had to evolve in a similar manner. If you're going to become a smart species, you'll have to become badass. Very badass with a brain that allows you to understand the nuances of the species you want to eat. Predation breeds intelligence.
So, if long-term space travel for humans somehow proves to be possible, we would face an apex species more similar to ourselves than we might think. Even the dinosaurs had their smarter species, almost all raptors.
Imagine if one of the raptor species had experienced the same mutation that sparked the big brain in hominids. They might have had the technology to knock that 6-mile-wide asteroid out of the sky and still be ruling earth today.
Alien intelligent species will have had to evolve in a similar manner. If you're going to become a smart species, you'll have to become badass. Very badass with a brain that allows you to understand the nuances of the species you want to eat. Predation breeds intelligence.
So, if long-term space travel for humans somehow proves to be possible, we would face an apex species more similar to ourselves than we might think. Even the dinosaurs had their smarter species, almost all raptors.
Imagine if one of the raptor species had experienced the same mutation that sparked the big brain in hominids. They might have had the technology to knock that 6-mile-wide asteroid out of the sky and still be ruling earth today.
Posted on 6/10/18 at 2:10 pm to KSGamecock
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Americans and Europeans would debate about whether we should even make contact and then we'd probably try very hard not to manipulate them unduly while others like the Chinese would probably be less bashful about openly exploiting them.
If this were to happen today you would think that the U.S would pretty much be solely responsible for getting us there and would certainly push our policy regarding how we handled the natives. I would bet that we would only observe and not introduce ourselves which would also likely happen if we are or have been visited by a more advanced civilization. If deep space travel were possible then observation over introduction imo.
Posted on 6/10/18 at 7:51 pm to hogNsinceReagan
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How would man-kind treat such a species. They would be considered less intelligent but with the capacity to learn
The Prime Directive:
"a guiding principle of the United Federation of Planets prohibiting the protagonists from interfering with the internal development of alien civilizations."

Posted on 6/10/18 at 7:54 pm to Tiger Ree
Would be very noble of us. Let us hope their planet doesn't have crude oil.
Posted on 6/13/18 at 12:29 pm to Kentucker
The recent finding of organic material (possible) is interesting but not conclusive in that microbial life could have splashed for lack of a better term from one planet to another from impacts to the surface. Finding life on one of the moons of Jupiter or Saturn would be far more compelling. It’s all going to come down to wether life is common or rare in the universe. If it’s common, there’s a good chance we’ll eventually stumble into it.
Let’s face it, the challenges of interstellar travel are far greater than we can comprehend. If life is rare, we’ll never find it, much less intelligent life. The distances are just too much. FTL doesn’t mean much if everyplace we can reach is inhabitable. Wormholes, bending time/space, the multiverse etc....only time will tell. None of us will live to see it.
Make no mistake, it’s a race now to find someway off the planet. The moon, Mars, asteroid belt, Kuiper Belt, Oort Cloud. A lot of people are going to try to get there and most of them will probably die trying and nobody will be coming home. Space travel is going to become a one way trip. But first we have to actually commit to it. And realize that at the same time, things will be probably changing for the worse on Earth. If we don’t make it, we’ll be gas in the tank in a billion years.
Let’s face it, the challenges of interstellar travel are far greater than we can comprehend. If life is rare, we’ll never find it, much less intelligent life. The distances are just too much. FTL doesn’t mean much if everyplace we can reach is inhabitable. Wormholes, bending time/space, the multiverse etc....only time will tell. None of us will live to see it.
Make no mistake, it’s a race now to find someway off the planet. The moon, Mars, asteroid belt, Kuiper Belt, Oort Cloud. A lot of people are going to try to get there and most of them will probably die trying and nobody will be coming home. Space travel is going to become a one way trip. But first we have to actually commit to it. And realize that at the same time, things will be probably changing for the worse on Earth. If we don’t make it, we’ll be gas in the tank in a billion years.
Posted on 6/13/18 at 12:59 pm to hogNsinceReagan
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Particularly regarding contact between humans and aliens
See Valerie Jarrett
Posted on 6/13/18 at 1:16 pm to Kcprogguitar
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It’s all going to come down to wether life is common or rare in the universe.
Based just on our one sample, earth, there's every reason to think that life is ubiquitous wherever conditions exist for it to happen. Life is, after all, just a very complex chemical chain reaction.
It's sentient life, intelligence, that is most likely exceedingly rare. Again, this opinion is based upon our one sample. Life began very quickly on earth within a few hundred million years after its formation.
It took 4.5 billion years, however, for an intelligent species to evolve. It took almost 3 billion years just for multicellular species to appear. This would indicate that complex life, especially intelligent species, can be expected to be most rare in the Universe.
Of course, when we consider the total number of stars and planets in the Universe, the odds seem to come down against the likelihood of sentient life. There are an estimated 2 trillion stars just in the observable part of the Universe that we reside in. That means there is probably an uncountable number of planets within the same space.
So, when we plug the giant number of planets into Drake's Equation, The likelhood of other intelligences goes up strongly.
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The distances are just too much. FTL doesn’t mean much if everyplace we can reach is [un?]inhabitable. Wormholes, bending time/space, the multiverse etc....only time will tell. None of us will live to see it.
Don't despair yet. Our understanding of exotic physics increases daily.
For example, the bizarreness of quantum mechanics may offer solutions to space travel that we can't yet even imagine. Consider this: We observe photons traveling through space. However, from the perspective of a photon itself, it doesn't move. The concepts of distance, time and size don't exist for a massless particle such as the photon.
This weird summation explains the "spooky action at a distance" that baffled Einstein. Now called particle entanglement, it's when two photons are created at the same time in an experiment and then separated by any distance, even theoretically that of the breadth of the Universe. When one particle is manipulated, the other responds in a proportionate way, no matter the distance separating them.
Since, from the perspective of the photon, no distance exists between it and its entangled fellow photon, manipulation of one particle is always associated with an instant and simultaneous effect upon the other.
Now extrapolate this concept to communication and travel by macro-particle assemblages such as ourselves. If we discover how to exploit this and other quantum world physics, the now impossible may soon be considered to be quaint ignorance.
quote:
Make no mistake, it’s a race now to find someway off the planet. The moon, Mars, asteroid belt, Kuiper Belt, Oort Cloud. A lot of people are going to try to get there and most of them will probably die trying and nobody will be coming home. Space travel is going to become a one way trip. But first we have to actually commit to it. And realize that at the same time, things will be probably changing for the worse on Earth. If we don’t make it, we’ll be gas in the tank in a billion years.
The logical solution to the conundrum of leaving the earth without the physical ability to survive space travel is to create a successor species that can, artificial intelligence.
Posted on 6/13/18 at 1:32 pm to Kentucker
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Don't despair yet. Our understanding of exotic physics increases daily.
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The logical solution to the conundrum of leaving the earth without the physical ability to survive space travel is to create a successor species that can, artificial intelligence.
Will a fully functioning AI not be able to come up with all kinds of facts of science we haven't been able to work out yet?
Like, couldn't we set an AI to work on things like time travel or energy efficiency and just be blown away at the discoveries?
Einstein and Hawking weren't as smart as a super-computer correct?
Posted on 6/13/18 at 1:55 pm to hogNsinceReagan
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Will a fully functioning AI not be able to come up with all kinds of facts of science we haven't been able to work out yet?
Yes, and very fast. That’s why I think the singularity will happen in our lifetimes.
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Like, couldn't we set an AI to work on things like time travel or energy efficiency and just be blown away at the discoveries?
That may very well be the motivation for humans to give an AI the ability to self-design itself. Once given that ability, however, the AI will become ASI almost immediately.
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Einstein and Hawking weren't as smart as a super-computer correct?
Einstein and Hawking were thinking, reasoning and fully conscious. Supercomputers are still just robots. All computers are prosthetics, if you will, for the human mind. Their tasks are to perform calculations and to store and retrieve data in an efficient manner. Compared to what true AI will be, they’re still rudimentary. Quantum computers will change that status, however.
Posted on 6/13/18 at 2:09 pm to hogNsinceReagan
I don't think alien life has ever passed through our Solar System outside of two situations.
The first: Panspermia, an astroid brought life by chance after sailing through the universe and by dumb luck we have it.
The second: A species so advanced that it doesn't even operate under the physical limitations of the universe.
The most likely scenario is we've had an alien drone pass by that won't even give its information to its home system for a hundred or so years.
Even a laser propulsed nanocraft would take 20 years to get to our closest star, and it would take four years to transmit its findings back to Earth. And that's the BEST case scenario.
We most likely haven't been visited by life, and a little slightly more likely is we've been visited by a drone whose information won't even be received within a thousand years (if they're actually pretty close and there's no interference between the drone and their homeworld).
The first: Panspermia, an astroid brought life by chance after sailing through the universe and by dumb luck we have it.
The second: A species so advanced that it doesn't even operate under the physical limitations of the universe.
The most likely scenario is we've had an alien drone pass by that won't even give its information to its home system for a hundred or so years.
Even a laser propulsed nanocraft would take 20 years to get to our closest star, and it would take four years to transmit its findings back to Earth. And that's the BEST case scenario.
We most likely haven't been visited by life, and a little slightly more likely is we've been visited by a drone whose information won't even be received within a thousand years (if they're actually pretty close and there's no interference between the drone and their homeworld).
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