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Current idea that cold is from global warming fundamentally flawed?

Posted on 1/11/14 at 8:05 am
Posted by KnoxvilleBerryTiger
Member since Mar 2006
3412 posts
Posted on 1/11/14 at 8:05 am
So, I never heard of the polar vortex before this cold snap.

In hearing that the cold temperatures could be from global warming that has resulted in melting of arctic ice, and then learning that arctic ice has increases profoundly in recent years, I read up on it a bit and came away with questions.

How is this theory not an outright lie?

How can you theorize that the cause is from melting, when it's been freezing now in a remarkable way?

In the 2 minute video below, the guy talks about increased warming relative to other latitudes. So, is it a relative air temperature difference that they are basing this on? Is there an air temperature component that is warming, that exists even with the gain in sea ice? (I could not find data on arctic air temperature patterns.)

Is there a chronological component to this that I am not aware of, thus this exists because of previous warming?

Are they disputing that ice is increasing?

Links for reference
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LINK

LINK
This post was edited on 1/11/14 at 8:19 am
Posted by samson'sseed
Augusta
Member since Aug 2013
2070 posts
Posted on 1/11/14 at 9:47 am to
It's not a lie that global warming can cause a sudden onset of cold climate.

It is a geological fact.

I'm not well versed on the polar vortex, but I have thoroughly studied Ice Age climates. Studying paleoecology is a hobby of mine.

Toward the end of the last Ice Age, natural forcing caused average annual temperatures to rise suddenly. This caused rapid melting of glacial ice. This cold meltwater became locked behind giant ice dams. When thes ice dams burst, billions of gallons of cold freshwater plus ice bergs and rafted debris flooded into the North Atlantic. This huge amount of cold freshwater shut down thermohaline circulation--the ocean currents that moderate climates.

This caused a sudden drop in worldwide average annual temperatures precipitating a 1500 year cold snap known as the Younger Dryas--it became as cold as the Ice Age again.

This cyclical event has occurred multiple times over the last 7 millions years, but especially over the last 2.4 million years. It happens more frequently and with greater intensity during Ice Ages.

There is abundant geological evidence of these events, known as Heinrich Events. At the bottom of the ocean there are rocks called dropstones and lots of debris including fossil trees that were carried out to sea by these floods. There are even visible drag marks off the coast of South Carolina where icebergs half ran aground on the ocean bottom.
Posted by DCRebel
An office somewhere
Member since Aug 2009
17644 posts
Posted on 1/11/14 at 9:59 am to
While we were experiencing the polar vortex, Australia was experiencing a record heat wave.

There's a reason it's called global climate change.
Posted by TrueTiger
Chicken's most valuable
Member since Sep 2004
68524 posts
Posted on 1/11/14 at 9:01 pm to
The idea that humans have enough power to destroy the earth is laughable.

We aren't much more than giant ants, not gods.

Get over yourselves.

Posted by StrangeBrew
Salvation Army-Thanks Obama
Member since May 2009
18185 posts
Posted on 1/11/14 at 11:14 pm to
If we could just figure out how to keep the sun at one level output versus these unnatural flares.
Posted by kingbob
Sorrento, LA
Member since Nov 2010
67234 posts
Posted on 1/11/14 at 11:24 pm to
The theory of warming triggering major cooling has to do with two interrelated parts of the earth's climatic system: salinity and heat flow in the atlantic ocean.

The theory revolves around what is known as the north atlantic conveyer system (of which the gulf stream is a part) which consists of ocean currents that take warm air from the tropics north towards Iceland which then sinks as it cools and flows back south. This helps to keep temperatures more mild in the northern Europe and Canada than they would be otherwise. What allows this to happen is that salinity varies both in temperature and depth and has a huge effect on buoyancy (for example, you are far more buoyant in the Dead Sea than in a fresh water lake). This allows the cold water to sink beneath the warm and flow south.

The theory as related to global warming states that as temperatures across the world increase, more arctic ice will melt, adding more freshwater to the north Atlantic Ocean. This change in salinity will reach a tipping point where the cold water will no longer be able to sink beneath the warm water mass and flow south, causing the conveyor to grind to a halt.

Without this flow of energy, Europe and North America get colder and wetter while the tropics get hotter and dryer. This has been observed at times throughout the ice ages.

The fear is that man is contributing to warming, therefor accelerating the process. Personally, i think man-driven agw is hogwash thanks to my knowledge of climate and modeling techniques.
Posted by TrueTiger
Chicken's most valuable
Member since Sep 2004
68524 posts
Posted on 1/13/14 at 9:43 pm to
See my sig line (or listen to the whole reading)

Charlton Heston reads Michael Crichton
This post was edited on 1/13/14 at 9:56 pm
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