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Let's Compare Hugh's O vs Gus's O
Posted on 12/8/13 at 2:35 am
Posted on 12/8/13 at 2:35 am
So after watching us and Auburn all year, I want to have a discussion about these two and their offenses. Obviously they both like to hurry up and run as many plays as possible while spreading out the defense. Is that where the similarities end?
I know Auburn bases it's system around a power running game and they are damn good at it. I heard during the game today that Missouri and Pinkle seem to think that on Aub's zone- read plays that they call keep or give in the huddle rather than reading it (Mizzou could tell due to lack of fumbles). Regardless Auburn tries to run it strait at you as many times as possible through the game, which wears you down, opens up the offense and destroys you in the 4th when you are gassed. (Pretty much the Bama philosophy but from a spread look)
Freeze on the other hand likes to run the ball but uses more of the outside sweep type of run game. He does use some inside stuff but not nearly as much. Freeze also uses a quick passing attack as well to keep the defense off balanced and to keep the corners worried about the WR instead of being in run support.
I guess my question is do you think Freeze wants to run it up the gut as much as Mahlzahn but doesn't have the O lineman yet or do you think they have different philosophies in general. I'm a firm believer that you have to be yourself, especially in play calling because you have have to get into a rhythm, but after year 2 of Freeze is this what his offense is? Or do you think he still isn't to where he wants to be personnel wise and it will change the more talent we have? Or is Freeze one of those coaches who see's where his talent is and plays off of that?
I personally would like to see us run more PA on first down and try to go down the field, but I understand you cant do unless you draw the DB's into thinking heavy run support. In a perfect world we would spend about 10 seconds getting to the line after the play, let the QB get to the line, make the defense show and signal the play based on how many guys are in the box (USUALLY 2 high safeties leaves 6 in the box which you should be able to run easily with a hat on a hat, with 1 high safety and 7 in the box, you use the zone read to account for the extra man, and with 0 high safeties and 8 in the box you should be able to throw and win 1 on 1 with your WR). But it's not always that easy.
I know TL:DR and probably doesn't even make sense, but it's 2:30 on a Sat night and I'm procrastinating studying for the Praxis. Give me a break.
I know Auburn bases it's system around a power running game and they are damn good at it. I heard during the game today that Missouri and Pinkle seem to think that on Aub's zone- read plays that they call keep or give in the huddle rather than reading it (Mizzou could tell due to lack of fumbles). Regardless Auburn tries to run it strait at you as many times as possible through the game, which wears you down, opens up the offense and destroys you in the 4th when you are gassed. (Pretty much the Bama philosophy but from a spread look)
Freeze on the other hand likes to run the ball but uses more of the outside sweep type of run game. He does use some inside stuff but not nearly as much. Freeze also uses a quick passing attack as well to keep the defense off balanced and to keep the corners worried about the WR instead of being in run support.
I guess my question is do you think Freeze wants to run it up the gut as much as Mahlzahn but doesn't have the O lineman yet or do you think they have different philosophies in general. I'm a firm believer that you have to be yourself, especially in play calling because you have have to get into a rhythm, but after year 2 of Freeze is this what his offense is? Or do you think he still isn't to where he wants to be personnel wise and it will change the more talent we have? Or is Freeze one of those coaches who see's where his talent is and plays off of that?
I personally would like to see us run more PA on first down and try to go down the field, but I understand you cant do unless you draw the DB's into thinking heavy run support. In a perfect world we would spend about 10 seconds getting to the line after the play, let the QB get to the line, make the defense show and signal the play based on how many guys are in the box (USUALLY 2 high safeties leaves 6 in the box which you should be able to run easily with a hat on a hat, with 1 high safety and 7 in the box, you use the zone read to account for the extra man, and with 0 high safeties and 8 in the box you should be able to throw and win 1 on 1 with your WR). But it's not always that easy.
I know TL:DR and probably doesn't even make sense, but it's 2:30 on a Sat night and I'm procrastinating studying for the Praxis. Give me a break.
Posted on 12/8/13 at 3:05 am to HottyToddy7
(no message)
This post was edited on 12/8/13 at 3:11 am
Posted on 12/8/13 at 3:11 am to Landsharks
Did you say something and delete it or hit submit to early?
Posted on 12/8/13 at 8:09 am to HottyToddy7
Here's what Auburn has that we don't: a good offensive line and Tre Mason.
We can talk about what plays we want to run all day, but the painful fact is that our OL is one of the worst in the SEC.
We can talk about what plays we want to run all day, but the painful fact is that our OL is one of the worst in the SEC.
Posted on 12/8/13 at 8:53 am to DCRebel
I will go even further. Its not our RBs that are the issue. It is interior OL. Auburn interior OL dominated all night.
Freeze would definitely run more if he had that kind of OL.
Gus isn't doing anything magical. He is playing to his strength and running the ball. He has played the two best defenses in the SEC and neither were able to stop the run. Also Auburn is light years ahead of Ole Miss in recruiting. Especially up front.
Freeze would definitely run more if he had that kind of OL.
Gus isn't doing anything magical. He is playing to his strength and running the ball. He has played the two best defenses in the SEC and neither were able to stop the run. Also Auburn is light years ahead of Ole Miss in recruiting. Especially up front.
Posted on 12/8/13 at 9:01 am to Doresrules
Something I didn't realize until last night was that Gary Pinkel has been at Mizzou for 13 years. Something we need to remember is how long it takes to create the stability necessary to win in the SEC.
Posted on 12/8/13 at 9:51 am to DCRebel
Yeah fans are microwave fans now. They want instant success. He has had some very good years at Mizz in the past. That team would have been better last season they were just destroyed by injuries. Fans were calling for his head. Sometimes you just have to be patient.
I compare it to Kennedy. It took a while, but the basketball program is in a good space right now. Especially considering we have ZERO history in mens basketball.
I compare it to Kennedy. It took a while, but the basketball program is in a good space right now. Especially considering we have ZERO history in mens basketball.
Posted on 12/8/13 at 10:36 am to Doresrules
quote:
I compare it to Kennedy. It took a while, but the basketball program is in a good space right now. Especially considering we have ZERO history in mens basketball.
and I caught holy hell from this board about it last year. Most accused me of trolling.
and then we won the SEC tourny...
Posted on 12/8/13 at 10:49 am to pankReb
Whatever. We won't even make the NIT this year.
Posted on 12/8/13 at 11:17 am to sorantable
I'm not sure about that. We got some big games coming up. If Kennedy can get MH to take better shots then I think we have a shot at the NCAA tournament.
The SEC still isn't great so we definitely should do ok in league play. Kennedy has won 20 games like every year he has been here. No need to think he wont this year.
The SEC still isn't great so we definitely should do ok in league play. Kennedy has won 20 games like every year he has been here. No need to think he wont this year.
Posted on 12/8/13 at 7:34 pm to HottyToddy7
quote:
Freeze on the other hand likes to run the ball but uses more of the outside sweep type of run game.
They both do this. Its an essential part of the read option. AU does it quite a bit and with a lot more success because they can run the dive and counter trey that freeze the defensive backfield. We pass a lot more because Bo is not a true read option qb, and our strength is the wr's.
Our oline, especially when missing starters, is no where near theirs right now.
Posted on 12/9/13 at 11:44 am to rebelrouser
1. Auburn O line > than ole miss O line
2. Tre Mason > all of Ole Miss back feild
3. Auburn's mobility at QB > Bo's mobility maybe even a better QB (Can't be certain because of the two above. Can't wait for slingblade)
2. Tre Mason > all of Ole Miss back feild
3. Auburn's mobility at QB > Bo's mobility maybe even a better QB (Can't be certain because of the two above. Can't wait for slingblade)
Posted on 12/9/13 at 2:06 pm to WithaRebelYell
quote:
1. Auburn O line > than ole miss O line
this, especially inside
quote:
2. Tre Mason > all of Ole Miss back feild
by far, we have no back over 200 lbs
quote:
3. Auburn's mobility at QB > Bo's mobility maybe even a better QB (Can't be certain because of the two above. Can't wait for slingblade)
this as well - Bo's injury situation made us 1-dimensional on the zone read because defenses knew he didn't want to run as much (to avoid injury)
Posted on 12/10/13 at 12:14 am to Billy Mays
besides having a superior offensive line. They also use more miss direction or counter play action. It doesn't fool too many defenses, but the slight hesitation by the back seven to see where the ball is going is enough to allow the offensive line and receivers to get to the next level.
It also gives the offensive lineman the upper hand, they can bait defensive lineman to go the direction of the fake, making it much easier to push those lineman out of their gaps.
When we use two backs and/or a back across the formation we have been more successful than when attempting to play it straight up and push the defense back.
Running the reverse veer, or triple option is very similar to running the wishbone, with more emphasis on the pass. In order to make it work there has to be some deception in order to slow the defense.
Bama's defensive strength is pursuit speed. The slight hesitation on miss direction or counter plays works best against teams that over pursue.
Not having Jeff Scott to run across the formation limited our ability to control the line of scrimmage. The fact we stopped doing it and did not use Jaylen Walton to do the same is beyond me and I believe the coaching staff will put it back to use during the bowl game when they self evaluate .
There's an old saying, if it ain't broke don't fix it. Somehow they forgot why they were successful running the ball?
Running the ball successfully makes passing the ball that much easier.
It also gives the offensive lineman the upper hand, they can bait defensive lineman to go the direction of the fake, making it much easier to push those lineman out of their gaps.
When we use two backs and/or a back across the formation we have been more successful than when attempting to play it straight up and push the defense back.
Running the reverse veer, or triple option is very similar to running the wishbone, with more emphasis on the pass. In order to make it work there has to be some deception in order to slow the defense.
Bama's defensive strength is pursuit speed. The slight hesitation on miss direction or counter plays works best against teams that over pursue.
Not having Jeff Scott to run across the formation limited our ability to control the line of scrimmage. The fact we stopped doing it and did not use Jaylen Walton to do the same is beyond me and I believe the coaching staff will put it back to use during the bowl game when they self evaluate .
There's an old saying, if it ain't broke don't fix it. Somehow they forgot why they were successful running the ball?
Running the ball successfully makes passing the ball that much easier.
This post was edited on 12/10/13 at 12:17 am
Posted on 12/10/13 at 1:22 am to Billy Mays
quote:
this as well - Bo's injury situation made us 1-dimensional on the zone read because defenses knew he didn't want to run as much (to avoid injury)
I think this was as much of a factor as any. The whole offense is based off of the zone read and if you take out the core of your offense then you have issues. Last year we would show R-O a lot early then run many different variations and different actions based on that look. I think DK gets a decent amount of PT if not wins the starting job for the sole reason that we can bring this back as the core of our offense.
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