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Does anybody else miss Brian VanGorder?
Posted on 9/13/13 at 2:12 pm
Posted on 9/13/13 at 2:12 pm
I had a chance to meet him a couple of times, and that guy was mean. Real mean. But what I loved about him is his defense always played that way too.
I think I read somewhere that the loss to LSU in the SEC Championship was the only time where he gave up 30 points in a game.
Can you imagine? Consistently holding teams to under 30 points?
I understand that Grantham has a lot of unexperienced guys starting off this year, but this being his 4th year, I'm expecting this guy to produce. He's had plenty of time to recruit, so he has his "personnel." I expect our defense to be slow to react, but we've played two big ball games and I hope we've made strides of improvement.
If this defense is not some kind of a force (even in the slightest) by season's end, then I think Grantham's officially replaceable.
I think I read somewhere that the loss to LSU in the SEC Championship was the only time where he gave up 30 points in a game.
Can you imagine? Consistently holding teams to under 30 points?
I understand that Grantham has a lot of unexperienced guys starting off this year, but this being his 4th year, I'm expecting this guy to produce. He's had plenty of time to recruit, so he has his "personnel." I expect our defense to be slow to react, but we've played two big ball games and I hope we've made strides of improvement.
If this defense is not some kind of a force (even in the slightest) by season's end, then I think Grantham's officially replaceable.
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Posted on 9/13/13 at 2:14 pm to greygatch
quote:
greygatch
Brian, that you?
Posted on 9/13/13 at 2:22 pm to PortlyDawg
quote:
Brian, that you?
Posted on 9/13/13 at 2:30 pm to greygatch
quote:
I think I read somewhere that the loss to LSU in the SEC Championship was the only time where he gave up 30 points in a game
You read correctly. 4 years in the SEC and gave up 30 points 1 time, and it was to the national champs in a day that they were firing on cylinders. I know it's sacrilegious, but if one were so inclined you could make a damn strong case he's the best DC we've ever had.
Posted on 9/13/13 at 2:33 pm to WG_Dawg
quote:
I know it's sacrilegious, but if one were so inclined you could make a damn strong case he's the best DC we've ever had.
You're not a real fan.
Posted on 9/13/13 at 2:33 pm to greygatch
quote:
Does anybody else miss Brian VanGorder?
No. But I know someone who is still missing the money he was owed by the VanGorder's for services rendered in 2003.
Posted on 9/13/13 at 2:39 pm to S1C EM
quote:
You're not a real fan
whatever you say buddy. From 01-04, and I may do the research when I get home, typically if we scored 20 points we won the game. I don't care what anyone says, that's frickin elite.
Posted on 9/13/13 at 2:40 pm to WG_Dawg
quote:
whatever you say buddy. From 01-04, and I may do the research when I get home, typically if we scored 20 points we won the game. I don't care what anyone says, that's frickin elite.
No doubt on the stats. But we also had a number of very elite players on those Ds.
And I'll work on my interweb sarcasm, I promise.
Posted on 9/13/13 at 2:43 pm to greygatch
I understand the sentiment and I liked what he did while he was in Athens; but he proved in Atlanta and in Auburn that he cannot keep up with what modern offenses and comparable talent bases offer.
I have news for anyone that misses the good ole times back in the early 2000's- The talent disparity in coaches and players between today's SEC and that SEC is night and day. Van Gorder didn't coach week in and week out against the same caliber of teams (specifically offenses) that play in today's college football. He literally just had better talent on Defense than other teams had on Offense.
QB's in the SEC in that time period included Erik Ainge-James Banks, Matt Mauck-Rohan Davey, Corey Jenkins-Dondrial Penkins, etc. Not exactly the murders row of talent that Grantham has to contend with in today's SEC. The offensive schemes have changed dramatically in the 10 years since he has left as well. It is a game that is geared towards offensive production and the defenses that are the most successful as stopping it aren't really stopping in at all; rather scheming to slow it down. It is what it is. I would love to go back to holding every team to less than 30 points every game as well, but it just isn't feasible; be it Van Gorder, Grantham, or Saban coaching the defense in Athens.
I have news for anyone that misses the good ole times back in the early 2000's- The talent disparity in coaches and players between today's SEC and that SEC is night and day. Van Gorder didn't coach week in and week out against the same caliber of teams (specifically offenses) that play in today's college football. He literally just had better talent on Defense than other teams had on Offense.
QB's in the SEC in that time period included Erik Ainge-James Banks, Matt Mauck-Rohan Davey, Corey Jenkins-Dondrial Penkins, etc. Not exactly the murders row of talent that Grantham has to contend with in today's SEC. The offensive schemes have changed dramatically in the 10 years since he has left as well. It is a game that is geared towards offensive production and the defenses that are the most successful as stopping it aren't really stopping in at all; rather scheming to slow it down. It is what it is. I would love to go back to holding every team to less than 30 points every game as well, but it just isn't feasible; be it Van Gorder, Grantham, or Saban coaching the defense in Athens.
This post was edited on 9/13/13 at 2:47 pm
Posted on 9/13/13 at 2:45 pm to greygatch
Posted on 9/13/13 at 2:48 pm to greygatch
Yes, I can imagine consistently holding teams to under 30pts. I can imagine it largely because I think everybody on this board lived through it. It's not some mystical notion.
With that said, the changes in our program run deeper than Brian Van Gorder in regards to fixing the defense. We are not simply one mean coach away from returning to the early Richt years.
The program's attitude has changed for whatever reason.
Our teams were absurdly tough those years. Even as talented as we are now, none of our opponents would say we play with the same toughness. Remember when we used to trot out Mike Gilliam and Tony Milton to tote the rock? And we were winning basically the same amount of games each year as we are now? Remember when we walked out an OL that consisted of basically all freshmen and made it to the SEC title game? And some of our freshmen's careers were ended because of injuries they sustained and played through during that season? Remember when we took a 6'9 -230lb kid out of Missouri and made him into an OL that still in the league?
Remember when we never lost on the road? Remember when Richt stressed regularly to the players that championships were won on the road and they wanted championships so bad that they went out and actually played so hard that you could see they believed it?
Times were different. The whole program was different. The attitude was different. Talking about the next man stepping up wasn't just talk, it was an action.
Those times are gone for whatever reason. If our current talent level played with the toughness of those past teams, we'd be the East equivalent of Bama.
With that said, the changes in our program run deeper than Brian Van Gorder in regards to fixing the defense. We are not simply one mean coach away from returning to the early Richt years.
The program's attitude has changed for whatever reason.
Our teams were absurdly tough those years. Even as talented as we are now, none of our opponents would say we play with the same toughness. Remember when we used to trot out Mike Gilliam and Tony Milton to tote the rock? And we were winning basically the same amount of games each year as we are now? Remember when we walked out an OL that consisted of basically all freshmen and made it to the SEC title game? And some of our freshmen's careers were ended because of injuries they sustained and played through during that season? Remember when we took a 6'9 -230lb kid out of Missouri and made him into an OL that still in the league?
Remember when we never lost on the road? Remember when Richt stressed regularly to the players that championships were won on the road and they wanted championships so bad that they went out and actually played so hard that you could see they believed it?
Times were different. The whole program was different. The attitude was different. Talking about the next man stepping up wasn't just talk, it was an action.
Those times are gone for whatever reason. If our current talent level played with the toughness of those past teams, we'd be the East equivalent of Bama.
Posted on 9/13/13 at 2:49 pm to S1C EM
quote:
But we also had a number of very elite players on those Ds
The players became elite due to VanGorders coaching. If you're going by just star ratings and whatnot, some of the defenses under CTG (like last year) were FAR more talented. I mean hell look at some of these examples:
-took a fullback and turned him into a 3 time AA and one of the most decorated SEC players ever
-took a guy nobody heard of whose only other offer was SC State and turned him into maybe the best CB in the league, who is still playing in the NFL
-saw a guy playing basketball in a small town, and recognized the potential there and turned him into an AA and one of the 2 or 3 best safeties to ever play at UGA
-took an average running back and after a year of growing pains turned him into a lockdown CB
Those aren't all coincidence. The reason our Ds were so good was because of VanGorder. He has absolutely sucked recently, but you can't deny what he did from 01-04.
Posted on 9/13/13 at 2:57 pm to JStanDawgFan
quote:
QB's in the SEC in that time period included
Rex Grossman, Brodie Croyle, Jason Campbell, Jay Cutler, Chris Leake, Eli Manning...but yeah just list the sucky ones because it helps your argument.
Actually, let's compare where the main programs we played and say if they are better/worse now compared to then. My guess is referring to the NOW. Keep in mind we're comparing 01-04 time period and 10-13 time period:
SC: better
Florida: worse
UK: worse
UT: worse
Vandy: better
bama: better
arkansas: worse
auburn: worse
LSU: even
MSU: I don't know
OM: worse
GT: worse
SC, Vanderbilt, and Bama are the only 3 out of 12 programs listed that are better right now than they were from 01-04.
So really I don't agree with much of your post. And as for BVG adapting to stop new defenes, IDGAS about that because he didnt' have to do so. He did what he had to do in the 4 years he was here. What he did in the pros or now at auburn has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on his actual accomplishments at UGA.
This post was edited on 9/13/13 at 2:59 pm
Posted on 9/13/13 at 3:06 pm to WG_Dawg
quote:
-took a fullback and turned him into a 3 time AA and one of the most decorated SEC players ever
-took a guy nobody heard of whose only other offer was SC State and turned him into maybe the best CB in the league, who is still playing in the NFL
-saw a guy playing basketball in a small town, and recognized the potential there and turned him into an AA and one of the 2 or 3 best safeties to ever play at UGA
-took an average running back and after a year of growing pains turned him into a lockdown CB
Out of ignorance, who are the last two on this list? I know #1 and #2 are Pollack and Champ
Posted on 9/13/13 at 3:06 pm to WG_Dawg
quote:
-took a fullback and turned him into a 3 time AA and one of the most decorated SEC players ever
Not gonna pick em all out, but VanGorder did not make David Pollack. You can put that to rest right now. You don't teach a kid what Pollack brought to the table. That said, if you want to give VanGorder credit for seeing those tools and putting them in the proper place, that's fine (and perhaps that's your point).
quote:
but you can't deny what he did from 01-04.
I don't think anyone is denying it. We're just saying he can't/couldn't do it now and he would not be the fix for our current D woes.
Posted on 9/13/13 at 3:09 pm to FreshPrinceofDubtown
quote:
Champ
Champ Bailey didn't gotdang play for VanGorder. He was drafted to the NFL in 1999.
Frick.
This post was edited on 9/13/13 at 9:24 pm
Posted on 9/13/13 at 3:11 pm to FreshPrinceofDubtown
quote:
Out of ignorance, who are the last two on this list? I know #1 and #2 are Pollack and Champ
-pollack
-tim jennings
-thomas davis
-bruce thornton
Posted on 9/13/13 at 3:13 pm to WG_Dawg
quote:
The reason our Ds were so good was because of VanGorder. He has absolutely sucked recently, but you can't deny what he did from 01-04.
Let's not be quite so hard on Van Gorder's recent problems. I'm not sure i would say he can't keep up with the current offensive formations, schemes, etc., either.
Auburn's cupboard is bare. I mean....empty. I don't care what their recruiting classes were. (Last year excepted) They just do not have the talent to stop people. if they give Van Gorder another couple of years, they will be very pleased with what they have. You'll see some improvement this year...more improvement next year, and a LOT of improvement the next. Just a guess. Just my opinion.
Posted on 9/13/13 at 3:13 pm to S1C EM
quote:
VanGorder did not make David Pollack. You can put that to rest right now.
If it wasn't for vangorder, pollack may have played his whole career at fullback (and probably been a darn good one), or DT where he moved to originally. Just because he ended up flourishing at DE doesn't mean it would've happened naturally.
quote:
We're just saying he can't/couldn't do it now and he would not be the fix for our current D woes.
1)It's impossible to say what he could or couldn't do had he stayed on staff for 12 straight years. The law of averages suggest that he wouldn't have sustained that high a level, but Saban/smart have always fielded stout defenses, who's to say vangorder couldn't as well?
2)I wouldn't want him to return. Things didn't work out and both sides moved on.
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