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re: 15-16 AU Hoops Season Thread 11-20 (5-13) {we beat UK} Disaster over
Posted on 2/25/16 at 11:07 am to GenesChin
Posted on 2/25/16 at 11:07 am to GenesChin
quote:
There are zero times where Bryce Brown would be shooting a midrange jumper as a SG with a defender already in front of him.
Yeah you don't know shite about basketball.
1
Posted on 2/25/16 at 11:14 am to jangalang
quote:
Yeah you don't know shite about basketball
Have you ever watched Brown's game? If a defender is playing loose enough to stay in front of Brown, Brown is going to throw up a 3pt shot
Brown is quick enough that anyone playing close enough to contest his 3, he will drive past
Posted on 2/25/16 at 11:17 am to Smoke7024
quote:
. It's somewhat of a lost art, especially for big men
I'm a huge fan of big men shooting midrange. While it may not be a boost to EV, it does get the stretch of post defenders.
Jangalang just is a moron. Probably all the paint chips he ate as a child
Posted on 2/25/16 at 11:21 am to GenesChin
quote:
Have you ever watched Brown's game? If a defender is playing loose enough to stay in front of Brown, Brown is going to throw up a 3pt shot Brown is quick enough that anyone playing close enough to contest his 3, he will drive past
So? Think about how good he would be if he had an extra tool in his Arsenal.
Posted on 2/25/16 at 11:24 am to GenesChin
quote:
Jangalang just is a moron. Probably all the paint chips he ate as a child
Please, I've made you twist and squirm through this convo all afternoon long. You even showed me an article about a fricking robot. Not to mention you said a step back from a 12 foot jumper = 3 points.
Posted on 2/25/16 at 11:27 am to jangalang
quote:
So? Think about how good he would be if he had an extra tool in his Arsenal.
If it was as simple as "Hey just add a midrange" sure. During practice and free time we would be better served if Brown practiced 3s and finishing around the rim
In a game, we wouldn't want him shooting more than 1-2 times a game anyways so it would have a minor impact
Posted on 2/25/16 at 11:31 am to jangalang
quote:
Please, I've made you twist and squirm through this convo all afternoon long.
Twist and squirm? Not hard to post easily accessible and widely researched stats
I will admit it took me awhile to figure out you neither understand the modern game of BBall nor understand statistics.
This post was edited on 2/25/16 at 11:33 am
Posted on 2/25/16 at 11:34 am to GenesChin
quote:
If it was as simple as "Hey just add a midrange" sure. During practice and free time we would be better served if Brown practiced 3s and finishing around the rim
Statements like this makes me wonder if you have ever played basketball before. Basketball is intuitive and basketball is all about taking what the defense is giving you. Against a zone defense, if a defender rotates over while you're deep into the perimeter, are you really going to force a long three or drive toward a three man inside zone? I hope not. You're going to be open in the middle to score or you can pass it off.
Posted on 2/25/16 at 11:38 am to GenesChin
quote:
took me awhile to figure out you neither understand the modern game of BBall nor understand statistics.
Can I get a statistical anomaly for 500, Alex?
Posted on 2/25/16 at 11:42 am to jangalang
quote:
Against a zone defense, if a defender rotates over while you're deep into the perimeter, are you really going to force a long three or drive toward a three man inside zone?
There are multiple types of zones. But sounds like you are referring to the 2-3
Alternatively, you can pass to the open man along the arc if it is the 2-3 zone. Or when you drive, you dish out to the open man on the perimeter when the defense collapses
If the midrange was some zone killer, it would be shot more often. There are more effective ways to beat a zone
This post was edited on 2/25/16 at 11:49 am
Posted on 2/25/16 at 11:50 am to GenesChin
quote:
ernatively, you can pass to the open man along the arc if it is the 2-3 z
You literally just repeated what just said.
quote:
If the midrange was some zone killer, it would be shot more often. There are more effective ways to beat a zone
The zone and its weaknesses have been known for years; open shooters from the blocks is just one of them.
Posted on 2/25/16 at 11:59 am to jangalang
quote:
You literally just repeated what just said.
So why shoot a midrange jump shot if you can hit an open man along the arc for a 3pt shot?
quote:
The zone and its weaknesses have been known for years; open shooters from the blocks is just one of them.
Again, why shoot from the elbow instead of an open 3pt shot?
If you had 6 possessions and shot 33% from 3pt or 50% from midrange for all 6 possessions, you walk away with 6 points. Shooting 33% from 3PT is a lot easier than shooting 50% from midrange
This post was edited on 2/25/16 at 12:01 pm
Posted on 2/25/16 at 12:09 pm to GenesChin
quote:
Shooting 33% from 3PT is a lot easier than shooting 50% from midrange
No it's not. LMAO
Posted on 2/25/16 at 12:16 pm to GenesChin
The reason a midrange is a lost art is because kids don't practice it any more and coaches don't push their kids to practice it. That doesn't mean that it should be left to die. Now days, its either a three or a contested finish at the rim.
I'm not sure how much ball you all have played, but I'm 26 and I used to live off my mid range pull-up and fade away.
For a lot of players that are decent 3 point shooters, a pump faked three into a pull up 12 footer could be very valuable. After a few makes, next time you take a hard dribble into the lane and pull up the bigs down low will start showing and leaving the block open for cutters and positioned big men.
JJ Frazier was money with the pull up last night. He has that shot down because he knows he is too small to finish amongst the trees. So he pulls up and knocks it down. Russell Westbrook is another player that has a nice pull-up. Kennedy Winston from Alabama years ago was one of my favorite players to watch. His mid-range game was beautiful.
I'm all on board with brining back the mid-range.
I'm not sure how much ball you all have played, but I'm 26 and I used to live off my mid range pull-up and fade away.
For a lot of players that are decent 3 point shooters, a pump faked three into a pull up 12 footer could be very valuable. After a few makes, next time you take a hard dribble into the lane and pull up the bigs down low will start showing and leaving the block open for cutters and positioned big men.
JJ Frazier was money with the pull up last night. He has that shot down because he knows he is too small to finish amongst the trees. So he pulls up and knocks it down. Russell Westbrook is another player that has a nice pull-up. Kennedy Winston from Alabama years ago was one of my favorite players to watch. His mid-range game was beautiful.
I'm all on board with brining back the mid-range.
Posted on 2/25/16 at 12:16 pm to jangalang
quote:
No it's not. LMAO
Because I am too lazy to find quality NCAA statistics, I will use NBA stats to prove this point. Considering the extra distance on NBA 3pt, it should favor your argument LINK
For 2014-2015 only 4 players in the NBA average 50+% FG from Mid range (min 100shots)
1- Tyler Zeller 51.515%
2- JJ Reddick 51.385%
3- Beno Udrih 51.35%
4- Jared Dudley 51.2%
For 2014-2015, 148 players average 33+% 3PT FG in the NBA (min100 shots)
This post was edited on 2/25/16 at 12:18 pm
Posted on 2/25/16 at 12:18 pm to jangalang
quote:
Shooting 33% from 3PT is a lot easier than shooting 50% from midrange
It isn't. The only reason you could argue that is because kids just don't practice it anymore, therefore don't have skill to hit a midrange efficiently.
All things being equal, a midrange will always be easier than a 3. Unless you are Bruce Bowen.
Posted on 2/25/16 at 12:24 pm to au4you
quote:
For a lot of players that are decent 3 point shooters, a pump faked three into a pull up 12 footer could be very valuable.
Here is a great article how Buddy Hield became the best player in CBB.
The relevant point
quote:
Death to the midrange
According to Synergy Sports, Hield attempted 30 midrange jump shots as a junior (with midrange defined as shots from 17 feet out to the three-point line). The results weren’t all that impressive: just 0.60 points per possession (PPP). Hield decided during the offseason he needed to effectively wipe that element from his game — he’s taken just six shots from that range in 2016, which is a boon for Oklahoma’s offensive efficiency (1.17 PPP, ranked 10th nationally in Ken Pomeroy’s database) as he is extremely limited from that distance. Essentially, why force an explosive athlete with a lightning-quick first step to stop on a dime instead of attacking the rim?
Posted on 2/25/16 at 12:24 pm to TheJones
quote:
Oh look, it's you two again
I bet they're both Facebook geeks.
Posted on 2/25/16 at 12:27 pm to au4you
quote:
It isn't. The only reason you could argue that is because kids just don't practice it anymore, therefore don't have skill to hit a midrange efficiently.
In what world do you live in that people hit 50+% from midrange consistently?
With practice, hitting 3pt shots at 33% isn't difficult. To hit midrange jumpers at 50%+ is absolutely incredible. If you can hit 55%+ from midrange, you actually should be shooting midrange jumpers.
Posted on 2/25/16 at 12:28 pm to au4you
Totally agree. GC said Brown would have been better served practicing finishing lay ups and three pointers. That kind of mentality is counter intuitive to basketball itself and its hitting the youth basketball leagues hard already. Stephen Curry for one is making it look easy so everybody wants to shoot threes instead of actually learning the game.
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