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re: The readers of the Tennessean say Johnny the greatest SEC player ever
Posted on 8/6/16 at 10:40 pm to Hugh McElroy
Posted on 8/6/16 at 10:40 pm to Hugh McElroy
No. However a great case could be made that they are the greatest of the modern era. Say...1970 onward.
It's pointless and impossible to compare players from the 1950's when blacks were not playing, players were playing both ways, and conditioning and nutrition were not very advanced.
It's pointless and impossible to compare players from the 1950's when blacks were not playing, players were playing both ways, and conditioning and nutrition were not very advanced.
This post was edited on 8/6/16 at 10:41 pm
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Posted on 8/6/16 at 10:54 pm to wadewilson
quote:
Johnny is a rich upper class white kid who had everything handed to him his whole life
Did you ever read any of the articles on the Manziel family? He grew up with money but it hardly sounds like a typical upper class childhood.
This post was edited on 8/7/16 at 7:29 am
Posted on 8/7/16 at 7:25 am to oldcharlie8
quote:
cam bo Herschel tebow
Yeah, I think you're right - at least in the modern era.
Cam is the best of that group, too. He carried an otherwise mediocre Auburn team to a national title. I think my LSU Tigers were the second best team that year, and Cam single-handedly beat us (well, Nick Farley had something to do with it, too)
Posted on 8/7/16 at 7:46 am to Hugh McElroy
2 belong.2 do not.
I think everyone knows which ones.
I think everyone knows which ones.
Posted on 8/7/16 at 9:05 am to Arksulli
quote:
With no insult intended to JFF I don't think he cracks the top 4 all time in the SEC.
quote:
He had a great run at Texas A&M but I wouldn't put him on the Mt. Rushmore of greatest players.
totally agree with your post, very good player but no where close to the greatest SEC players of all time.
JFF made some dramatic plays and was fun to watch but most of his stuff was about broken plays
Very surprised that Saban did not dominate him as he normally does with this type of player.
Hated his showboating style of play and
Posted on 8/7/16 at 12:20 pm to LCTFAN
quote:
no where close to the greatest SEC players of all time.
JFF made some dramatic plays and was fun to watch but most of his stuff was about broken plays
You don't break the SEC total offensive yards record....TWICE with most of it being "broken plays." Come on, now.
Posted on 8/7/16 at 1:22 pm to joechristoppher77
quote:
Derrick Thomas and Tyrann Mathieu = much better than JFF could ever wish
Why are these two even in the same sentence?
Posted on 8/7/16 at 3:44 pm to Hugh McElroy
Oh Johnny of an 84 passer rating and far less yards rushing against LSU. GOAT? 
Bo and Herschel, MAYBE in the TOP 5. That's spitting on Archie - who was fantastic among others like the Snake and Joe Willie Namath. Go look up Cannon's information from LSU for his career on both sides of the ball.
Hell Casanova from LSU was a 3 time AA.
The is a joke.
All this proves is Kid's can use a computer to vote and those that had the "eye test" don't matter. Keep dreaming...
Bo and Herschel, MAYBE in the TOP 5. That's spitting on Archie - who was fantastic among others like the Snake and Joe Willie Namath. Go look up Cannon's information from LSU for his career on both sides of the ball.
Hell Casanova from LSU was a 3 time AA.
The is a joke.
All this proves is Kid's can use a computer to vote and those that had the "eye test" don't matter. Keep dreaming...
Posted on 8/7/16 at 4:04 pm to Tiger1988
This thread is a great example of "rant gonna rant", so there's no use even trying to have a rational discussion, but for those who suggest that manziel was some sort of bullshite artist who racked up all of his yards throwing jump balls to mike Evans, here are his NCAA awards and accomplishments:
Full-season awards
2012 Heisman Trophy winner (first freshman to win)[70]
2012 Davey O'Brien National Quarterback Award winner (first freshman to win)[71]
2012 Manning Award winner (first freshman to win)[5]
2012 First-team All-American by:
? Associated Press[72]
? Football Writers Association of America[73]
? Walter Camp Football Foundation[74]
? Sporting News[75]
? ESPN[76]
? CBS Sports[77]
? Scout.com[78]
? Sports Illustrated[79]
2012 Sporting News College Football Player of the Year[80]
2012 SEC Offensive Player of the Year[81]
2012 SEC Freshman of the Year[81]
2012 All-SEC First-Team Quarterback[81]
2013 Cotton Bowl Classic - Offensive MVP[82]
2012 ESPN.com All-Bowl Team[83]
2013 SEC Male Athlete of the Year[84]
2013 Chick-fil-A Bowl - Offensive MVP[85]
Weekly awards
2-time Walter Camp National Offensive Player of the Week[74]
3-time AT&T All-America Player of the Week[86]
4-time SEC Offensive Player of the Week[87]
9-time SEC Freshman of the Week[87]
NCAA records and notes
FBS freshman record: rushing yards by a quarterback, season (1,410)[5]
FBS freshman record: total offense, season (5,116)[5]
10th-most (at the time) single-season total offensive yards in NCAA FBS history[88]
Most games with 300 or more passing yards and 100+ rushing yards, career (4)[5]
FBS record: First freshman (and fifth player ever) in FBS history with 3,000 passing yards and 1,000 rushing yards, season[5]
FBS record: Rushing yards by a quarterback in a bowl game (229 yards)[5]
Only the fourth player to have 20 passing TDs and 20 rushing TDs, season[5]
Eclipsed the 7,000-yard barrier in total offense in his 19th career game, which is the fastest in NCAA FBS history by a four-year player[89]
Second freshman in FBS history to rush for 1,000 yards and pass for 2,000 yards[5]
First freshman to win the Heisman Trophy[5]
First freshman to win the Davey O'Brien National Quarterback Award[5]
First freshman to win the Manning Award[5]
SEC records and notes
Most yards total offense in a game (576, breaking Archie Manning's 1969 record of 540 yards)[90]
The first three places on the SEC total offense in a game
576 yards
562 yards against No. 1 Alabama
557 yards two weeks before the 576 yards
Most yards total offense, season (5,116, breaking Cam Newton's 2010 record in two fewer games)
2nd-most yards total offense, season (4,873)
Most yards total offense, game average (383.3, breaking Tim Couch's 1998 record, of 377.4 yards)
Highest yards per play average (50 plays minimum), game (10.71, against Arkansas on September 29, 2012, breaking Steve Tanneyhill's record of 10.0 yards)
First SEC quarterback to pass for 3,000 yards and rush for 1,000 yards in one season
Second-most passing yards in a SEC single season, 4,114 passing yards[88]
Tied for third-most passing touchdowns in an SEC single season, 37 touchdowns[88]
Tied for second most rushing touchdowns in a single season[88]
Tied for 8th most scoring in a single season[88]
8th most passing yards in a single season[88]
Full-season awards
2012 Heisman Trophy winner (first freshman to win)[70]
2012 Davey O'Brien National Quarterback Award winner (first freshman to win)[71]
2012 Manning Award winner (first freshman to win)[5]
2012 First-team All-American by:
? Associated Press[72]
? Football Writers Association of America[73]
? Walter Camp Football Foundation[74]
? Sporting News[75]
? ESPN[76]
? CBS Sports[77]
? Scout.com[78]
? Sports Illustrated[79]
2012 Sporting News College Football Player of the Year[80]
2012 SEC Offensive Player of the Year[81]
2012 SEC Freshman of the Year[81]
2012 All-SEC First-Team Quarterback[81]
2013 Cotton Bowl Classic - Offensive MVP[82]
2012 ESPN.com All-Bowl Team[83]
2013 SEC Male Athlete of the Year[84]
2013 Chick-fil-A Bowl - Offensive MVP[85]
Weekly awards
2-time Walter Camp National Offensive Player of the Week[74]
3-time AT&T All-America Player of the Week[86]
4-time SEC Offensive Player of the Week[87]
9-time SEC Freshman of the Week[87]
NCAA records and notes
FBS freshman record: rushing yards by a quarterback, season (1,410)[5]
FBS freshman record: total offense, season (5,116)[5]
10th-most (at the time) single-season total offensive yards in NCAA FBS history[88]
Most games with 300 or more passing yards and 100+ rushing yards, career (4)[5]
FBS record: First freshman (and fifth player ever) in FBS history with 3,000 passing yards and 1,000 rushing yards, season[5]
FBS record: Rushing yards by a quarterback in a bowl game (229 yards)[5]
Only the fourth player to have 20 passing TDs and 20 rushing TDs, season[5]
Eclipsed the 7,000-yard barrier in total offense in his 19th career game, which is the fastest in NCAA FBS history by a four-year player[89]
Second freshman in FBS history to rush for 1,000 yards and pass for 2,000 yards[5]
First freshman to win the Heisman Trophy[5]
First freshman to win the Davey O'Brien National Quarterback Award[5]
First freshman to win the Manning Award[5]
SEC records and notes
Most yards total offense in a game (576, breaking Archie Manning's 1969 record of 540 yards)[90]
The first three places on the SEC total offense in a game
576 yards
562 yards against No. 1 Alabama
557 yards two weeks before the 576 yards
Most yards total offense, season (5,116, breaking Cam Newton's 2010 record in two fewer games)
2nd-most yards total offense, season (4,873)
Most yards total offense, game average (383.3, breaking Tim Couch's 1998 record, of 377.4 yards)
Highest yards per play average (50 plays minimum), game (10.71, against Arkansas on September 29, 2012, breaking Steve Tanneyhill's record of 10.0 yards)
First SEC quarterback to pass for 3,000 yards and rush for 1,000 yards in one season
Second-most passing yards in a SEC single season, 4,114 passing yards[88]
Tied for third-most passing touchdowns in an SEC single season, 37 touchdowns[88]
Tied for second most rushing touchdowns in a single season[88]
Tied for 8th most scoring in a single season[88]
8th most passing yards in a single season[88]
This post was edited on 8/7/16 at 4:05 pm
Posted on 8/7/16 at 4:36 pm to 3rddownonthe8
quote:
JFF holds 1 record. Most total yards in a season. That's it Period nothing else.
if you are going to state something so emphatically you better be sure you are right (hint, youre not).
Posted on 8/7/16 at 4:50 pm to G2160
What I'm saying is eye test. Call all the gimmick offense you want, can't win in this league unless you can sit in the pocket and pass. Until you beat me, I'm holding you there. That's Chavis' philosophy against spread teams - small fast LBs.
Put a FRESHMAN db against Evans a first round pick and he stops him because he is long enough to make Manziel pass the ball. IDGAF what his stats were against anyone else. When Chavis figured it out after a quarter and a half the first game, he did zilch against LSU. Why? Because these QBs are flukes of a fluke system that when you hold them in the pocket, they show their true colors. In Manziels case, was zero ability to sit in the pocket and beat you. Exactly why he was drafted so late.
Why was Chavis so good against that fluke offense? Go watch the LSU defense from 2011 and what they did to Thomas from Oregon and Smith of WVU. Yeah Geno Smith, put up yards, but at the end of the day he threw interceptions and about 70 times that game. Not many points compared to LSU throttling their arse on National TV.
See TTU versus LSU last year for the reason and y'all former OC, getting run over.
Here is a reminder of what Manziel did.
LSU smacking JMs arse 2 years in a row.
Put a FRESHMAN db against Evans a first round pick and he stops him because he is long enough to make Manziel pass the ball. IDGAF what his stats were against anyone else. When Chavis figured it out after a quarter and a half the first game, he did zilch against LSU. Why? Because these QBs are flukes of a fluke system that when you hold them in the pocket, they show their true colors. In Manziels case, was zero ability to sit in the pocket and beat you. Exactly why he was drafted so late.
Why was Chavis so good against that fluke offense? Go watch the LSU defense from 2011 and what they did to Thomas from Oregon and Smith of WVU. Yeah Geno Smith, put up yards, but at the end of the day he threw interceptions and about 70 times that game. Not many points compared to LSU throttling their arse on National TV.
See TTU versus LSU last year for the reason and y'all former OC, getting run over.
Here is a reminder of what Manziel did.
LSU smacking JMs arse 2 years in a row.
This post was edited on 8/7/16 at 11:27 pm
Posted on 8/7/16 at 4:50 pm to Rhymenoceros
If JFF is one of the best, then the SEC is weaker that I ever thought. 
Pat Sullivan won a Heisman too and he was hardly one of the best in the SEC.
Pat Sullivan won a Heisman too and he was hardly one of the best in the SEC.
Posted on 8/7/16 at 4:52 pm to Tiger1988
Yeah, nobody is reading that
Posted on 8/7/16 at 4:56 pm to Tiger1988
quote:
What I'm saying is eye test. Call all the gimmick offense you want, can't win in this league unless you can sit in the pocket and pass. Until you beat me, I'm holding you there. That's Chavis' philosophy against spread teams - small fast LBs.
Put a FRESHMAN db against Evans a first round pick and he stops him because he is long enough to make Manziel pass the ball. IDGAF what his stars were against anyone else. When Chavis figured it out after a quarter and a half the first game, he did zilch against LSU. Why? Because these QBs are flukes of a fluke system that when you hold them in the pocket, they show their true colors. In Manziels case, was zero ability to sit in the pocket and beat you. Exactly why he was drafted so late.
Why was Chavis so good against that fluke offense? Go watch the LSU defense from 2011 and what they did to Deriv Thomas from Oregon and WVU. Yeah old dude from WVU, Geno Smith, put up yards, but at the end of the day he threw somethings like 60 times and got whipped. Not many points compared to LSU throttling their arse on National TV.
See TTU versus LSU last year for the reason and y'all former OC, getting run over.
Here is a reminder of what Manziel did.
LSU smacking JMs arse 2 years in a row.
yup, saban and smart couldnt shut him down but they aren't the chief
Posted on 8/7/16 at 5:04 pm to Uncle Gunnysack
We don't build a defense around gimmick offenses. Working well for us, not so much for Chavis.
Posted on 8/7/16 at 5:20 pm to nc14
If you don't think Johnny is one of the top 4 players, I can accept the argument. I disagree but I can accept it. To act like him being mentioned is offensive is stupid. Regardless of how you feel about his personal life, he is statistically the greatest QB in SEC history, not once, but twice and A&M might not have gone bowling those 2 years without him as there weren't a lot of strengths outside of him.
Posted on 8/7/16 at 5:32 pm to Quicksilver
Dude
Cam Newton beat our arse running the same offense TAMU did! Why? Newton was bigger and stronger and smarter that Manziel. He willed his team to wins including smashing PP7 on a straight run. He came back from 2 or 3 TDs to beat Bama and win the conference on the last SEC game of the year. He was heads and shoulders above anything we have seen in the last 20 years. You'd have to go back to Peyton to watch anything close from that position.
He was only there for 1 year and that's why he isn't in the Top 5 IMO.
I'm an LSU fan telling you that Johnny Manziel may have had good stats, but it was all about an offense that other SEC schools hadn't played except LSU.
We were built to stop those teams. Unfortunately we are not built to stop more balanced teams or teams with equal talent.
Chavis and his prevent type defense and small backers lost to Bama 2-3 times because of it.
Cam Newton beat our arse running the same offense TAMU did! Why? Newton was bigger and stronger and smarter that Manziel. He willed his team to wins including smashing PP7 on a straight run. He came back from 2 or 3 TDs to beat Bama and win the conference on the last SEC game of the year. He was heads and shoulders above anything we have seen in the last 20 years. You'd have to go back to Peyton to watch anything close from that position.
He was only there for 1 year and that's why he isn't in the Top 5 IMO.
I'm an LSU fan telling you that Johnny Manziel may have had good stats, but it was all about an offense that other SEC schools hadn't played except LSU.
We were built to stop those teams. Unfortunately we are not built to stop more balanced teams or teams with equal talent.
Chavis and his prevent type defense and small backers lost to Bama 2-3 times because of it.
This post was edited on 8/7/16 at 11:50 pm
Posted on 8/7/16 at 5:38 pm to Hugh McElroy
Johnny who?
Posted on 8/7/16 at 5:50 pm to kywildcatfanone
Manziel
Posted on 8/7/16 at 5:52 pm to G2160
BJ Symons is the greatest QB of all time. Stats say so...
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