Started By
Message
re: How far does Bama fall when Saban leaves?
Posted on 8/13/16 at 5:15 pm to Lsuchs
Posted on 8/13/16 at 5:15 pm to Lsuchs
quote:He very well could, the resources and history at Alabama is different from the resources and history at LSU. Saban is a great recruiter but it also doesnt hurt that he is promoting a school with a rich football history as well. Les is a great recruiter and I believe he can bond with the recruits better than Saban, you take that and couple it with everything Bama has to provide and whats to say he couldn't bring top 5 classes here while Saban is at LSU. I dont know if you are underestimating everything we have here at Bama or if you are underestimating the reasons why a recruit would come to Bama.
You honestly think Les is signing top 5 classes year after year at Bama while Saban is at LSU.
1
Posted on 8/13/16 at 5:37 pm to bamaqna
My original post and what I have been basing all my posts off of is this quote:
I'm not saying Alabama won't always be a contender, that's all I expect LSU to be. But when you just swung and missed on RR and Saban fell in your lap I strongly disagree your "floor" is LSU. Smug Bama fans dont realize how thin the line between UT and Bama is.
Tennessee is a shell of their former selves, and this current recruiting class is garbage.
-They have averaged 6 wins per season over the last 5 years with 5 being the low and 9 the high.
-They haven't beaten a top 10 team in almost a decade,
Bama and Tennessee are both historically elite. Both require elite OOS recruiting to an area that is not particularly appealing. Knoxville/Tuscaloosa are not Los Angeles/Austin. Neither is Baton Rouge but the BR/Nola area plus La in general is loaded and we have it to ourselves.
Tennessee is down, Bama is up. You think y'all are above the Tennessee situation? Hiring Dooleys and Kiffins trying to get to the top again? You had just struck out on RR.. UT was playing in the SECCG sabans first year, they looked for a coach 2 years later and there wasn't a sure thing there. Just like you had done but got lucky he declined. Roles could be completely reversed if Saban leaves Miami after 08 instead of 06.
In those years when you don't have a top 3 coach in CFB you aren't going to pick and choose the best players from every state to make up your roster. That's what Tennessee did in the 90s and early 2000s. They can't find their Saban to get them back there and Tennessee can't give them the talent to get back to the top. In fact besides urban Meyer there is no other coach like that.
Now Alabama has more talent then Tennessee as a state, and arguably equal to Louisiana every few cycles, but you have auburn too. If Tulane was an SEC blue blood with an NC this decade do you think LSU would be as easy to succeed at? As easy to build an elite roster?
quote:
The floor for Alabama post-Saban would be LSU post-Saban since Alabama is a better football program than LSU
I'm not saying Alabama won't always be a contender, that's all I expect LSU to be. But when you just swung and missed on RR and Saban fell in your lap I strongly disagree your "floor" is LSU. Smug Bama fans dont realize how thin the line between UT and Bama is.
quote:
Tennessee is projected to win the East and has elite talent on their roster now.
Tennessee is a shell of their former selves, and this current recruiting class is garbage.
-They have averaged 6 wins per season over the last 5 years with 5 being the low and 9 the high.
-They haven't beaten a top 10 team in almost a decade,
Bama and Tennessee are both historically elite. Both require elite OOS recruiting to an area that is not particularly appealing. Knoxville/Tuscaloosa are not Los Angeles/Austin. Neither is Baton Rouge but the BR/Nola area plus La in general is loaded and we have it to ourselves.
Tennessee is down, Bama is up. You think y'all are above the Tennessee situation? Hiring Dooleys and Kiffins trying to get to the top again? You had just struck out on RR.. UT was playing in the SECCG sabans first year, they looked for a coach 2 years later and there wasn't a sure thing there. Just like you had done but got lucky he declined. Roles could be completely reversed if Saban leaves Miami after 08 instead of 06.
In those years when you don't have a top 3 coach in CFB you aren't going to pick and choose the best players from every state to make up your roster. That's what Tennessee did in the 90s and early 2000s. They can't find their Saban to get them back there and Tennessee can't give them the talent to get back to the top. In fact besides urban Meyer there is no other coach like that.
Now Alabama has more talent then Tennessee as a state, and arguably equal to Louisiana every few cycles, but you have auburn too. If Tulane was an SEC blue blood with an NC this decade do you think LSU would be as easy to succeed at? As easy to build an elite roster?
This post was edited on 8/13/16 at 6:05 pm
Posted on 8/13/16 at 5:41 pm to bamaqna
quote:
. I dont know if you are underestimating everything we have here at Bama or if you are underestimating the reasons why a recruit would come to Bama
I'm all ears, i wouldn't mind hearing. But I'm pretty confident anything you mention would be similar at all top level schools. Facilities, academic and player support...
It was a perfect match no doubt, Saban and Bama.
I think you underestimate that Saban was always going to get top classes though. He did at LSU like he still is at Bama. He would have at UT, at UGA, UF, AU...
He is the GOAT and he was looking the same time y'all were. Tennessee wasn't so lucky, and you might not be next time either.
This post was edited on 8/13/16 at 6:07 pm
Posted on 8/13/16 at 6:07 pm to Lsuchs
quote:For the most part we do have a lot of similar things to other schools, Tuscaloosa is nice and there are a lot of things to do but that can also be said for Baton Rouge as well, however like I said earlier one thing that seperates us from others is our history. Bama has one of the most rich football histories there is with numerous hall of fame players who have walked through the capstone also the football facilities that have been set up here is one of if not the best in college football along the same lines as what you would see at most NFL complexes. Saban would still get top classes because I believe that is just the type of coach he is, but I do believe that he has established a system here that is so great that the only way a coach would not be able to atleast achieve a 10 win season per year is if he is not ready to handle the responsibilities at that level. So I can understand why you would feel the way you feel because LSU is a powerhouse program, but how things are established now and also because Saban himself said that he would play a part in choosing the next coach to come here. I agree that the floor for Bama with Saban gone would be where LSU is at the moment.
I'm all ears, i wouldn't mind hearing. But I'm pretty confident anything you mention would be similar at all top level schools.
Posted on 8/13/16 at 6:10 pm to bamaqna
quote:
I agree that the floor for Bama with Saban gone would be where LSU is at the moment.
I could see that over 3 years. Similar to Miles 05-07. But after that you are on your own. Miles is lucky to have Louisiana to himself. And believe it or not LSU has given mile the highest assistant salary total in College football for the majority of his time here.
quote:
Saban himself said that he would play a part in choosing the next coach to come here
Saban recommended Houston Nutt to replace him at LSU for what it's worth
This post was edited on 8/13/16 at 6:26 pm
Posted on 8/13/16 at 6:11 pm to Lsuchs
quote:
If Tulane was an SEC blue blood with an NC this decade do you think LSU would be as easy to succeed at? As easy to build an elite roster?
What the hell is Tulane compared to LSU? Even if Tulane was an SEC blue blood with a NC, LSU already has an eatablished history with powerful alum to trump whatever Tulane may bring when it comes to recruiting and otherwise. Hell Auburn won a NC this decade, but they have nowhere near the clout to compete with Alabama in a lot of areas.This post was edited on 8/13/16 at 6:11 pm
Posted on 8/13/16 at 6:12 pm to bamaqna
quote:
What the hell is Tulane compared to LSU? Even if Tulane was an SEC blue blood with a NC, LSU already has an eatablished history with powerful alum to trump whatever Tulane may bring when it comes to recruiting and otherwise
I think you missed my point. I was saying you have to deal with that as the coach at Alabama. You don't at LSU
If Tulane was an SEC big 6 member and we had to share our roster with them miles would not have nearly the talent he has had. The same will apply to all future LSU coaches. New Orleans is a gold mine.
In 2014 New Orleans alone had the better top 4 prospects than the state of California...
New Orleans (1.2 mil) 247composite:
#1 Leonard Fournette
#8 Speedy Noil
#17 Malachi Dupre
#34 Gerald Willis
California (39.1 mil) 247composite:
#7 Adoree Jackson
#20 JuJu-Smith-Schuster
#21 Joe Mixon
#37 Royce Freeman
This post was edited on 8/13/16 at 6:50 pm
Posted on 8/13/16 at 6:16 pm to Lsuchs
quote:Hey he may not be great but he did win most of his games and won 3 SEC Coach of the year awards.
Saban recommended Houston to replace him at LSU for what it's worth
quote:I completely agree with you however like I said earlier with how things has already been established and the system that he set, it wouldnt be that hard of a stretch for anyone to maintain the current level of success because pretty much most of the hard work has already been done to an extent.
could see that over 3 years. Similar to Miles 05-07. But after that you are on your own.
Posted on 8/13/16 at 6:31 pm to bamaqna
I honestly think Saban was poised for a Bama like run at LSU in 05-07. That roster was filthy like Bama's will be for the next coach.
Because he left no one realized just how good he was, or how good LSU could be. Like if he had left Bama after 2010 we would have missed this Bama dynasty.
Miles won 34 games, 2 west titles, 1 SEC title, and 1 National Championship in that 3 year stretch. I think Saban tops that and goes back to back in 06-07, and who knows what the roster would look like after that. Probably even better than 05-07.
A lot of people look at 04 and don't realize that. LSU 04 was just like Bama 10. Both lost 3 games the year after his first NC. LSUs third loss was on a Hail Mary in the bowl game after Saban had already checked out though
Because he left no one realized just how good he was, or how good LSU could be. Like if he had left Bama after 2010 we would have missed this Bama dynasty.
Miles won 34 games, 2 west titles, 1 SEC title, and 1 National Championship in that 3 year stretch. I think Saban tops that and goes back to back in 06-07, and who knows what the roster would look like after that. Probably even better than 05-07.
A lot of people look at 04 and don't realize that. LSU 04 was just like Bama 10. Both lost 3 games the year after his first NC. LSUs third loss was on a Hail Mary in the bowl game after Saban had already checked out though
This post was edited on 8/13/16 at 6:59 pm
Posted on 8/13/16 at 7:05 pm to Lsuchs
I will say this to you dude, I dont think its fair for anyone to compare Les to Saban as Saban is a one of a kind coach. However, Les in his own right is a great coach and he is successful for what he has to work with. If Saban was still in the NFL, I fully believe Les would have atleast 2 more NC on his resume. The only problem with Les is what sets Saban apart from the rest, he fails to adapt to the times of what is goin on. Les keeps trying to prove that his old school pro style type of offense will lead his team to the Championship. If Les doesn't learn to incorporate more spread offensive schemes into his playbook then he will not be there by the end of the year.
Posted on 8/13/16 at 7:09 pm to Lsuchs
Dude STFU you really know nothing about the dynamics at play at Alabama or Tennessee for that matter......
Posted on 8/13/16 at 8:07 pm to 14&Counting
quote:
Dude STFU you really know nothing about the dynamics at play at Alabama or Tennessee for that matter......
Feel free to enlighten me.
-Cheated all throughout the 90s and early 2000s, sanctioned twice 95 and 02?
-02 lost 15 scholarships total over 3 years.
-off sanctions in 05 class. 05 class finished 21st, 06 class 15th, 07 class 13th.
-Saban arrives in 07, from 08 on vast majority #1 classes and hands down top program in CFB.
What was I wrong about?
-Tennessee needs to recruit at a high level OOS? I mean if Tennessee was loaded with blue chip prospects you don't think they would be better off?
They used to grab top prospects from all over when they were at their best. The right hire would bring that back. If we had a good player in La back then he was going to Miami, FSU, or Tennessee.
-Alabama as a state doesn't have as much talent to go around as a Louisiana or Georgia when you factor in Auburn?
^ yes I know you are close to the pan handle and Georgia, so are others and LSU is right next to east Texas
-Tuscaloosa doesn't exactly recruit itself (it's not LA or Austin)
-Alabama tried to hire Rich Rodriguez he declined
-Alabama could very well be in the teens in recruiting annually and not won any championships like Tennessee if Saban (GOAT) didn't become available or RR hire went through
-Same coach coaches at LSU, UGA, or UF in today's game he would be just as successfull as he would be at Alabama.
^ those are absolutely your titles, but Saban was winning wherever he went.
-would Les Miles have done better at Alabama than LSU over 11 seasons (avg 10+ w per year) recruiting against auburn while Saban locked down Louisiana and cherry picked?
-Would mark Richt have done better at Bama than he did at UGA? I think Saban would have locked down Georgia like Mack Brown used to lock down Texas. Richt couldn't come close to that.
-If you had hired Rodriguez and Saban leaves Miami you don't think he would have gone somewhere else, he would have just stayed out of the college game? Do You think he wouldn't immediately start winning wherever that was? Or would he have said "no other program is worthy of my time"
^ So another program would be the "Bama" instead of you. It could have been a number of programs: UT (either), Auburn, UGA, UF, USC, FSU, OSU, MICH, ND...
You might not be as bad off as Tennessee, you might be just like LSU who knows. But a good to great coach is not Saban, and no one recruits like Saban.
At the end up the day you'll probably just tell me to STFU again or TLDR. But this is a football forum and I'm discussing football. You are welcome to correct me or ignore me.
Is it that hard to just accept that y'all are a top teir program that was in the right place at the right time? instead of this is the norm/inevitable and not possible anywhere else
This post was edited on 8/13/16 at 8:50 pm
Posted on 8/13/16 at 8:44 pm to Bootycall
I don't expect it to get better.Hopefully maintain for a stretch.
I'm just really hoping they make a wise choice.
Those little shoes will be hard to fill.
I'm just really hoping they make a wise choice.
Those little shoes will be hard to fill.
This post was edited on 8/13/16 at 8:48 pm
Posted on 8/13/16 at 8:48 pm to Bootycall
Probably go from winning 7 Titles every decade to 4.
One thing is for certain though....when Saban does retire from UA, you can bet the farm that Bama will not have to hire a search committee or even send anyone out to look for his replacement. Coaches will send word via their agents begging on their behalf for the job.
One thing is for certain though....when Saban does retire from UA, you can bet the farm that Bama will not have to hire a search committee or even send anyone out to look for his replacement. Coaches will send word via their agents begging on their behalf for the job.
Posted on 8/13/16 at 8:52 pm to Bootycall
Alabama was one of the greatest football programs of all time before Saban and will continue to be so after Saban. Of course there will be some transition pains, but we'll be fine
Posted on 8/14/16 at 12:44 am to Lsuchs
quote:I shall, this is Alabama and we are the premier program of the SEC. The End
Feel free to enlighten me.
Posted on 8/15/16 at 8:59 am to coachcrisp
IIRC, Curry left because he couldn't/didn't want to deal with the expectations of the job; so for him, Kentucky was a better job.
Not sure why you think that's funny.
Not sure why you think that's funny.
Posted on 8/15/16 at 9:33 am to BammerDelendaEst
quote:Actually there's more humor in the fact that you're oblivious to how stupid your post is. If your line of reasoning is correct, then the job of janitor at Microsoft is a better job than Bill Gate's CEO position, huh?...expectations come with the top jobs.
IIRC, Curry left because he couldn't/didn't want to deal with the expectations of the job; so for him, Kentucky was a better job.
Not sure why you think that's funny.
Posted on 8/15/16 at 9:52 am to Bootycall
quote:
How far does Bama fall when Saban leaves?
They will be good for a few years, than a slow LSU- like decline into the 9-4 abyss.
Posted on 8/15/16 at 9:56 am to Lsuchs
quote:
Alabama tried to hire Rich Rodriguez he declined
You aren't telling the whole story if you think he "declined".
Page 7 of 8
Popular
Back to top
Follow SECRant for SEC Football News