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re: Comparing the 2013 SEC coaching hires Bielema, Jones, & Gus.
Posted on 7/11/16 at 9:10 pm to TTsTowel
Posted on 7/11/16 at 9:10 pm to TTsTowel
Gus started in the best situation of the three with existing relationships at the school.
Bert and butch took over crap shows from scratch. They have improved.
Gus has declined.
I like Bert of the 3. It's hard to pull sufficient talent from OOS to Fayetteville. Yet, his teams have improved, and they play everyone tough. Plus, his blowhard personality and lack of political correctness is fun. It's like the old ball coach in his prime (without all the Ws). Last, he easily has the best looking wife which gives him the tiebreaker if all other things were equal.
Bert and butch took over crap shows from scratch. They have improved.
Gus has declined.
I like Bert of the 3. It's hard to pull sufficient talent from OOS to Fayetteville. Yet, his teams have improved, and they play everyone tough. Plus, his blowhard personality and lack of political correctness is fun. It's like the old ball coach in his prime (without all the Ws). Last, he easily has the best looking wife which gives him the tiebreaker if all other things were equal.
This post was edited on 7/11/16 at 9:11 pm
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Posted on 7/11/16 at 9:44 pm to VOLhalla
When did Tennessee/Butch play USC?
Posted on 7/11/16 at 9:49 pm to dawgdayafternoon
They play them every year, but the year I referred to is 2013
Posted on 7/12/16 at 8:12 am to AU24
5->7->9
I'll take that trend.
I'll take that trend.
Posted on 7/12/16 at 8:13 am to AU24
Big Bert
Posted on 7/12/16 at 8:43 am to AU24
On paper Gus looks to be the best. His resume is the best so far. However, Bert inherited much more of a mess than Gus did. Gus' resume is padded somewhat by that first, awesome year. He's seemingly been in decline since then.
Bert's resume has been impacted by that first, horrible year. He's seemingly been improving since then.
Butch looks to be in a good place for this season, but I'm just not sold yet.
How I'd want them for my own team if those were my three choices:
Bert
Gus
Butch
Bert's resume has been impacted by that first, horrible year. He's seemingly been improving since then.
Butch looks to be in a good place for this season, but I'm just not sold yet.
How I'd want them for my own team if those were my three choices:
Bert
Gus
Butch
Posted on 7/12/16 at 9:10 am to sunseeker
quote:
I will take Bert. Easily the best of the three.
Posted on 7/12/16 at 9:32 am to swinetime
Gus got the luck of the draw for sure, came in riding the coattails of his predecessor. Bret and Butch had to rebuild from crap storms. Bret is obviously improved every year although last year's inexplicable hiccups make you shake your head. Giving AR plays in the West and has turned butt whoopings into wins or close loses and Bret beat Butch with his so called highly rated recruits pretty easily in Neyland last year, I think it's Bret all the way. Gus will be the first fired especially now that Butch seemingly got around the lapse in moral justice.
Posted on 7/12/16 at 9:39 am to hawgsalot
I just wanna throw this out there...
Didn't Kentucky hire Stoops that year too?
Didn't Kentucky hire Stoops that year too?
Posted on 7/12/16 at 9:39 am to hawgsalot
Everyone on hear saying Gus got the luck of the draw are revising history. Nobody thought Gus had a QB to run his O in 2013. Nobody thought the D could stop anyone for any reason...but somehow they figured it out and won a SEC title.
The stats are obvious. Gus has done better. No fan from any school would trade the 3 years Auburn had for the other schools years.
That being said Bert has been showing signs of getting stronger, but at the end of the day its about winning a championship. He hasn't shown signs that arkie is a real possibility to win the SEC. I like most Auburn fans have concerns about Gus and the program, but we know for certain if the right QB steps on campus we can win a title with Gus running the show. UT and arkie don't know that at all.
The stats are obvious. Gus has done better. No fan from any school would trade the 3 years Auburn had for the other schools years.
That being said Bert has been showing signs of getting stronger, but at the end of the day its about winning a championship. He hasn't shown signs that arkie is a real possibility to win the SEC. I like most Auburn fans have concerns about Gus and the program, but we know for certain if the right QB steps on campus we can win a title with Gus running the show. UT and arkie don't know that at all.
Posted on 7/12/16 at 10:23 am to bamasgot13
quote:
However, Bert inherited much more of a mess than Gus did.
Arkansas was a mess for sure. But its not like Auburn was in great shape either. Auburn was coming off of a 3-9 season the year before. Was Chizik a good coach or a bad coach? It seems fans always immediately respond that he was a bad coach, but then they turn around and try to act like Gus inherited a great program already built up at Auburn when he arrived. It can't go both ways.
quote:
Gus' resume is padded somewhat by that first, awesome year.
Yes it is. And while fans are quick to point to the downward trend, I think credit needs to be given for taking a team that was 3-9 the year before... putting in a brand new quarterback... and then taking Auburn to an SEC Title and a spot in the National Championship Game.
Bert nor Butch have not come close to an accomplishment like this.
quote:
He's seemingly been in decline since then.
While the decline from '13 is evident, I'm not sure its fair to judge a coach for declining from a very high pinnacle that he was responsible for producing.
Auburn was 11-14 as a program during the two seasons before Gus' arrival. Then came the magical seasons of '13. Discounting that great year, Auburn has now gone 15-11 in the last two years.
So while I doubt Auburn fans are happy with a 15-11 record over two seasons, even without '13 counted, Gus has still improved Auburn as a program compared to the bad two last seasons of Chizik.... again its gone from 11-14 up to 15-11.
quote:
How I'd want them for my own team if those were my three choices:
Bert
Gus
Butch
I'd pick Gus all day long. While its not fair to him at all to discount his SEC Championship season, even if you take away that year, there is very little difference between the three coaches. Just look at the past two seasons alone (2014 & 2015)
Overall Record
16-10 Tennessee
15-11 Auburn
15-11 Arkansas
SEC Record
8-8 Tennessee
7-11 Arkansas
6-10 Auburn
Record against Bowl Teams
10-11 Auburn
9-11 Arkansas
6-11 Tennessee
Butch has a slightly better record both overall and in SEC play, but he's played a much easier schedule.... Tennessee has played 4 fewer bowl opponents than Auburn, and 3 fewer bowl opponents than Arkansas.
During only 2014 and 2015, Auburn and Arkansas have been for the most part equal. They have the same overall record (15-11), while Arkansas has one more SEC win (7-11 vs. 6-10). However, Auburn has played a tougher schedule, having played 21 teams that made bowl games compared to 20 for Arkansas.
It's essentially a wash. So if its a wash when discounting Gus' 2013 SEC Championship season, I see no reasonable explanation as to why anyone could rate Bert ahead of Gus.
Here's how I'd rank them:
#1 Gus
It's essentially a wash between all 3 coaches since 2014, so Gus takes the top spot with 2013 being factored in. He's recruited the best of all 3. He has an SEC Title. And he's taken Auburn to 3 bowl games in 3 years.
#2 Butch
Based off just 3 seasons of play, I'd probably go with Bert by an inch. But Butch has his team in the preseason National Title discussion. On paper, they should be very good in 2016. He's recruited much better than Bert, and that's why the Vols are in the Preseason Top 10 and Arkansas is not in the Top 25.
#3 Bert
He has the worst record of the three coaches since he was hired at Arkansas. And entering into their fourth year as coaches, Arkansas has the least amount of talent on their roster heading into '16. It's a no-brainer.
This post was edited on 7/12/16 at 10:35 am
Posted on 7/12/16 at 10:30 am to WithaRebelYell
With, you set yourself up for that one. Had to up vote the responding poster
Posted on 7/12/16 at 10:31 am to AU24
Well this hasn't been done in at least a week
Posted on 7/12/16 at 10:34 am to hawgsalot
quote:
Gus got the luck of the draw for sure, came in riding the coattails of his predecessor.
This is unbelievably incorrect.
Record the year before both Gus and Bert were hired:
4-8 Arkansas
3-9 Auburn
Record the TWO years before both Gus and Bert were hired:
15-10 Arkansas
11-14 Auburn
Record the THREE years before both Gus and Bert were hired:
25-13 Arkansas
25-14 Auburn
Record the FOUR years before both Gus and Bert were hired:
33-18 Arkansas
33-19 Auburn
Whether you go back 1, 2, 3, or 4 years... Arkansas had a better record compared to Auburn in the years preceding both coaches being hired.
Arkansas fans are always trying to rewrite history when it comes to trying to explain Bert's absolutely dreadful start to his tenure.
Posted on 7/12/16 at 10:37 am to WithaRebelYell
quote:
What coach could survive a 7-5 or a 6-6 season?
All 3
Posted on 7/12/16 at 10:40 am to BHMKyle
I'd take Butch I think.
Best recruiter of the three.
Team is better from a real shitshow.
Gus is too high schoolish for me and Bert, well you've shown you can beat LSU on their letdown week but...
Toledo?
Texas Tech?
Can't be losing to those teams in year 3 or 4 or whatever it is
Best recruiter of the three.
Team is better from a real shitshow.
Gus is too high schoolish for me and Bert, well you've shown you can beat LSU on their letdown week but...
Toledo?
Texas Tech?
Can't be losing to those teams in year 3 or 4 or whatever it is
Posted on 7/12/16 at 10:47 am to BHMKyle
quote:
Arkansas was a mess for sure. But its not like Auburn was in great shape either.
agreed, but AU was only 2 full seasons removed from greatest season in school history and had a much stronger national brand in football than Arky did. This made for easier recruiting success. Additionally, Gus had history at AU so he knew the landscape well and could "hit the ground running". That was my point about Bert having more of a mess than AU.
Posted on 7/12/16 at 10:50 am to AU24
How many more times will these coaches resumes be compared before the off season is over. I'm gonna start the over/under at 4
Posted on 7/12/16 at 10:58 am to bamasgot13
quote:
agreed, but AU was only 2 full seasons removed from greatest season in school history and had a much stronger national brand in football than Arky did. This made for easier recruiting success. Additionally, Gus had history at AU so he knew the landscape well and could "hit the ground running". That was my point about Bert having more of a mess than AU.
The majority of folks here and in the real world realize this.
Posted on 7/12/16 at 11:02 am to BHMKyle
Here is an accurate representation of the state of Arkansas at the time of Bielema's arrival. Statements from SEC coaches prior to the 2013 season.
LINK /
“They are going to be terrible. What they are doing now, it’s the product of bad recruiting. They have a long way to go. That’s nothing against the new coach (Bret Bielema). But they are going to be terrible in Year 1.”
"They are going to be slim in a lot of spots. It’s going to take them three years to get a good foundation. It’s a product of bad recruiting — which is typical of a Bobby Petrino school. It’s the same thing that happened at Louisville that got Steve Kragthorpe fired. Petrino didn’t leave him any players. It’s the same thing at Arkansas. They have no players on defense. Petrino would load up on offense and leave the cupboard bare. That’s why he can’t ever get over the hump.”
LINK /
“They are going to be terrible. What they are doing now, it’s the product of bad recruiting. They have a long way to go. That’s nothing against the new coach (Bret Bielema). But they are going to be terrible in Year 1.”
"They are going to be slim in a lot of spots. It’s going to take them three years to get a good foundation. It’s a product of bad recruiting — which is typical of a Bobby Petrino school. It’s the same thing that happened at Louisville that got Steve Kragthorpe fired. Petrino didn’t leave him any players. It’s the same thing at Arkansas. They have no players on defense. Petrino would load up on offense and leave the cupboard bare. That’s why he can’t ever get over the hump.”
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