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re: Alabama in top 3 sports
Posted on 3/28/16 at 1:40 pm to BHMKyle
Posted on 3/28/16 at 1:40 pm to BHMKyle
quote:
You are spouting stats that frankly don't mean much
If all of those numbers don't mean much, how do you rank SEC football programs? It is basically Alabama, a huge gap and then Florida, LSU and a then a bunch of schools with 2, 1 or 0 titles over 100+ years of football.
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Posted on 3/28/16 at 1:45 pm to SummerOfGeorge
quote:
I just can't buy into the idea that a team with
- winning record vs 13/14 members of a league
- 2nd most wins all-time in conference
- top half in NCAA tournament appearances
- #2 in conference titles
- #2 in conference tournament titles
.......is 9th in the league overall. I don't think we are in the top 3 or 4, but I think discounting all of that and solely ranking based on 1 national title vs 0 national titles or 6 CWS vs 5 CWS and ignoring all above isn't the right way to do it.
Difference of opinion in how to rank teams, I guess.
in baseball, I'd put Alabama, all-time, behind LSU, Vanderbilt (recent success but CWS title is a trump), Georgia (CWS title in 1990), State, Florida and Arkansas.
Basketball is tough. Alabama has the SEC conference titles but their postseason success is a pretty big knock. I think you'd have to put them behind Kentucky, Florida, LSU, and Arkansas and about even with Tennessee
Posted on 3/28/16 at 1:46 pm to SummerOfGeorge
quote:
If all of those numbers don't mean much, how do you rank SEC football programs? It is basically Alabama, a huge gap and then Florida, LSU and a then a bunch of schools with 2, 1 or 0 titles over 100+ years of football.
This is actually a great point.
If wins don't matter, then Georgia is on par with Ole Miss.
Posted on 3/28/16 at 1:46 pm to Tuscaloosa
quote:
Overall wins don't mean anything?
Wins are good for one thing only: Getting you into the post-season.
Take this season in college basketball...
Akron finished 25-8
Valpo finished 24-6
Syracuse is now 23-13
The two teams with the most wins failed to make the NCAA tournament. The team with fewer wins is now playing in the Final Four.
Now go ask any fan of basketball if they would prefer to win the MAC regular season title and win 25 games.... or if they'd prefer winning 19 games in the regular season and make the tournament.
Figuring total wins means absolutely nothing if you don't make the tournament. ZERO.
quote:
Bottom line is that you had no idea Bama was ranked #1, #1 and #3 respectively in All Time overall wins
Bottomline is that is a worthless statistic. It has zero bearing on where your team ranks. Other than the fact that wins get a team into the postseason, those wins mean nothing if they fail to get you into the postseason.
... as it was perfectly described above.
Don't even try to pretend that wins means anything. Syracuse is playing in the Final Four. Akron and Valpo are watching it at home. Those wins of Akron and Valpo don't count 50% into the equation or even 10% for that matter. They are absolutely worthless unless they helped them get into the tournament.
Posted on 3/28/16 at 1:48 pm to BHMKyle
it's also worthless to use all-time wins because teams started fielding programs at different times. look at football's all-time wins list. Alabama is like 7th all-time in wins. I doubt any Alabama fan would, nor should they, buy the argument that means anything
Posted on 3/28/16 at 1:51 pm to lsufball19
quote:
it's also worthless to use all-time wins because teams started fielding programs at different times. look at football's all-time wins list. Alabama is like 7th all-time in wins. I doubt any Alabama fan would, nor should they, buy the argument that means anything
I debunked this last year. Bama's All-Time wins ranking in the SEC has not been heavily influenced by the year in which the programs started competing.
This post was edited on 3/28/16 at 1:52 pm
Posted on 3/28/16 at 1:52 pm to lsufball19
quote:
LSU, Vanderbilt (recent success but CWS title is a trump), Georgia (CWS title in 1990), State, Florida and Arkansas
Agree - though I didn't realize Missouri's 1950's and 1960's success.
quote:
Basketball is tough. Alabama has the SEC conference titles but their postseason success is a pretty big knock. I think you'd have to put them behind Kentucky, Florida, LSU, and Arkansas and about even with Tennessee
Yea, I think we are about even with Tennessee around 6th.
Posted on 3/28/16 at 1:55 pm to SummerOfGeorge
quote:
If all of those numbers don't mean much, how do you rank SEC football programs?
Because football has historically lacked any form of a postseason tournament, obviously there is no postseason tournament measure for football.
Bowl games are just stupid. A bowl game appearance in 1955 is worth far more than a bowl game appearance in 2015, when teams with 5-7 records are going to bowl games every year.
I think performance in the AP poll is a very good indicator for football.... its a far better indicator that wins or winning %.
Kentucky plays football in the SEC and therefore is going to struggle to get to 5 or 6 wins. But Boise State plays in the MWC and it would be hard for them NOT to win at least 10 games a year. But had Kentucky and Boise played every year for the past 30 years, the record would probably be about equal.
Conference titles are stupid. Obviously winning the Sun Belt is nothing compared to winning the SEC.
If football had had an 8 or 16 team playoff dating back 50 years, then the number of appearances in the playoff and the success within that playoff would be the only measure worth looking at.
But football does not have such a structure.
Posted on 3/28/16 at 1:56 pm to Tuscaloosa
quote:
I debunked this last year. Bama's All-Time wins ranking in the SEC has not been heavily influenced by the year in which the programs started competing.
i'm talking about all programs, not just SEC programs. And it isn't just when they started playing games that makes a difference. It's also titles.For instance, Michigan is #1 in all-time wins and #2 in all-time winning percentage. However, they have only won one national title since 1948. Texas is 4th all-time in wins and 6th all-time in winning percentage, yet they have 4 national titles and just one since 1970. Honestly, Texas had a good run for 8 years where they won 3 national titles, but historically underachieve
Posted on 3/28/16 at 1:58 pm to Tuscaloosa
quote:
If wins don't matter, then Georgia is on par with Ole Miss.
Actually no.
Georgia has a national title in football. Ole Miss has zero.
Georgia is ranked #13 all-time by the AP.
Ole Miss ranks #22.
Posted on 3/28/16 at 1:58 pm to BHMKyle
quote:
A bowl game appearance in 1955 is worth far more than a bowl game appearance in 2015, when teams with 5-7 records are going to bowl games every year.
agree to an extent. Bowl games back then were also completely geared towards money. Teams that didn't necessarily earn good bowls would still get bids because they'd generate more revenue. Bowl games didn't even determine the national titles back then, so they were purely exhibition games. But I do agree with your point. It was much more difficult to make bowl games back then
Posted on 3/28/16 at 1:59 pm to BHMKyle
quote:
BHMKyle
quote:
Don't even try to pretend that wins means anything. Syracuse is playing in the Final Four. Akron and Valpo are watching it at home.
This is the worst argument you have made thus far. Talk about small sample sizes and irrelevance combined in one terrible argument. No one is saying that total wins is the only criterion, just that it should not be discounted. Sheesh.
Posted on 3/28/16 at 2:00 pm to lsufball19
quote:
it's also worthless to use all-time wins because teams started fielding programs at different times. look at football's all-time wins list. Alabama is like 7th all-time in wins. I doubt any Alabama fan would, nor should they, buy the argument that means anything
Great point. But this probably makes too much sense for some of these bammers to recognize.
Posted on 3/28/16 at 2:00 pm to BHMKyle
quote:
Bottomline is that is a worthless statistic. It has zero bearing on where your team ranks. Other than the fact that wins get a team into the postseason, those wins mean nothing if they fail to get you into the postseason.
... as it was perfectly described above.
Don't even try to pretend that wins means anything. Syracuse is playing in the Final Four. Akron and Valpo are watching it at home. Those wins of Akron and Valpo don't count 50% into the equation or even 10% for that matter. They are absolutely worthless unless they helped them get into the tournament.
Got it. So Florida is a better football program historically than Michigan. Also, UConn has a better basketball program historically than Kansas, and Florida basketball is on par with Michigan State.
Got it.
Posted on 3/28/16 at 2:01 pm to SummerOfGeorge
quote:
Yea, I think we are about even with Tennessee around 6th.
You mean "upper echelon," right ;)
Posted on 3/28/16 at 2:04 pm to BHMKyle
quote:
Georgia is ranked #13 all-time by the AP. Ole Miss ranks #22.
Oh, that matters?
Well......
Total AP Poll Appearances Basketball
1. Kentucky (859)
26. Alabama (293)
28. Missouri (288)
31. Arkansas (265)
32. Florida (264)
36. Tennessee (241)
43. Vanderbilt (204)
45. LSU (198)
55. Mississippi State (140)
64. South Carolina (124)
70. Texas A&M (105)
79. Auburn (90)
91. Georgia (66)
98. Ole Miss (49)
This post was edited on 3/28/16 at 2:04 pm
Posted on 3/28/16 at 2:04 pm to Tuscaloosa
These stupid bastards need to brag about their accomplishments to teams they actually beat.
Posted on 3/28/16 at 2:04 pm to ErnestTBassmaster
quote:
No one is saying that total wins is the only criterion, just that it should not be discounted.
He's still trying to jump through hoops to make himself not seem so ignorant.
His original argument was that conference wins were pointless, because he was unable to comprehend my original post in this thread.
Once he realized that his reading comprehension was lacking and that he was completely unaware that Bama does indeed rank #1, #1, and #3 in the conference in all time wins, he adjusted his argument to suggest that all time wins don't matter at all.
Which is completely asinine.
Backpedal backpedal backpedal. Watching these goalposts move has been quite entertaining.
Posted on 3/28/16 at 2:05 pm to SummerOfGeorge
quote:
Oh, that matters?
Well......
Total AP Poll Appearances Basketball
1. Kentucky (859)
26. Alabama (293)
28. Missouri (288)
31. Arkansas (265)
32. Florida (264)
36. Tennessee (241)
43. Vanderbilt (204)
45. LSU (198)
55. Mississippi State (140)
64. South Carolina (124)
70. Texas A&M (105)
79. Auburn (90)
91. Georgia (66)
98. Ole Miss (49)
Posted on 3/28/16 at 2:05 pm to Tuscaloosa
quote:
Got it. So Florida is a better football program historically than Michigan. Also, UConn has a better basketball program historically than Kansas, and Florida basketball is on par with Michigan State.
that's kind of a leap from what he's trying to say IMO. no one metric should be used, alone, to determine an all-time list. although, some metrics should have more weight than others, like postseason success
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